| Author | Message | ||
     José_Quiñones |
Does this muffler resemble the one you mentioned? | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Oh, I'd love to go motec but they're not cheap...course what I paid for the carb, probably would have paid for that too. The other big thing against the motec is those boxes are physically BIG cause they're really meant for car applications. With the right software, there's no need. The DDFI is a good EFI system, full 3-d mapping, blah, blah, blah....it's just that BMC won't give us any tools to utilize it's power and flexibility. Jim, do you really understand how much work would be required to start from scratch? EFI sounds soooo simple, but they are tricky beasts to get right. Buell did ok, I'd say 85-90%...I'd just like to get to that extra 10+% of useability and flexability. ...scanning away, will post soon. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Jima4media |
Neil, You reminded me while I gave up on this idea a while back. It would be a lot of work, and for what? To get the same performance as someone with an M2 and a couple of Mikunis? Besides the Firebolt already has a better fuel injection system. I've ridden it, and it performed really well. If Dynojet has a Power Commander in the works for it, that would probably be the best route to go. We will probably find out in July what the rest of the Harley and Buell bike line-up will be for the 2003 -100th and 20th year anniversary models too. Jim X-2.5 | ||
| 1320 |
My local H-D/Buell Dealer has told me that the word from the recent Dealers meeting in FL is that the only 2003 models to be produced will be the Firebolt and the Blast?? Has anyone else heard anything like this? Court?? Blake? | ||
| Sarodude |
Personal thoughts... Hacking an FI system is no different than the Hacking one does to an S1 to lop off the passenger pegs or the hacking people do to their exhausts, carbs, heads, etc... I've personally embarked on a couple of oddball projects like this. They RARELY come to any fruition. HOWEVER, how many people play the lotto here? Kinda fun to think about succeeding - and maybe you will. Benefits... How many of you get TOTALLY pissed off that the bike you buy has SO much more potential than you get out of the box? In order to acheive that potential, you have to SCRAP or SUPPLEMENT things that you PAID FOR!!! It bugs me. Well, the FI Buells already have FI. A PC2/3 is a cheesey band aid - that works, mind you... However, how many folks would rather turn a screw on a carb vs buying a new carb JUST SO THEY'LL HAVE THE SCREW TO ADJUST? Oh, hell, just buy a WHOLE NEW MOTOR! Nobody HAS to be here. There are a few enthusiastic nut jobs who are curious enough and with enough varying skill to potentially make something like this work - Real Life permitting. Now, let's let the true nuts get back to the pipe dream... -Saro | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Well said Saro. Since, I'm no EE, would it be useful to build a simulator? That is, take an ecm wire it up and provide simulated sensor data (all the specs are in the manual)...or is that way down the road? Just going back through some old PC2/3 stuff I have; quote from Mike Daniels @ Dynojet - he was in process of putting DDFI on a S2: ======== The ECM moves the fuel curve up and down (rich and lean) according to engine temp, air temp, and the O2 sensor. This needs to happen to compensate for air condition changes (altitude/Temperature). The Buell does not have an absolute pressure sensor it depends on the O2 sensor, and closed loop (cruise) to tell it if the air density changes (altitude), since it bases this off of rich or lean it can help prevent engine damage if the bike develops an intake leak. From a Power Commander stand point the challenge is closed loop. If you try to richen the mixture in closed loop the ECU sees this via the O2 sensor and will lean out the whole curve, not just closed loop. For that reason the Buell Power Commander III only adjusts the open loop portion of the fuel curve. This reshapes the fuel curve to match the bikes modifications, and still allows the system to self adjust by moving the fuel curve up down to compensate for air conditions. When riding in closed loop the mixture will be at the stock setting of about 14.7:1, for people who want to richen closed loop we have an optional heated 4-wire O2 sensor that works with the Power Commander. ======= And the above is one reason (of many) that I want to tweak the FI software directly, instead of spoofing part of it. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Rempss |
Still scraping away that rubber potting compound, a few componets are starting to take shape. I'll keep going. Anyone have any experience with the compound, can I heat/boil it off? Jeff | ||
| Sarodude |
Jeff- I put in a call to one of my buddies in the semiconductor / components industry. I'll let you know as soon as I hear back. -Saro | ||
| Sarodude |
Jeff- No dice on the potting compound. My buddy and I think it KINDA sounds like RTV. It would seem that any solvent that could cut through RTV would likely gobble up the PCB as well. He mentioned looking up a LocTite industrial goop type of place to see if they can ID it and offer a solution. Anyone in SoCal have an ECM they'd like to 'loan' to the cause? -Saro | ||
| Dark_Ninja |
he he he...chuckling to myself. Grease Monkeys meet Geeks indeed!  In a few years as we move to electric or hybrid cars mechanics is going to be more about geeks than Grease Monkeys. What's a GM gonna do when the car is driven by electric motor and controlled by PCB, PICs, and software? Their gonna call a GEEK who knows about overclocking, voltage steps and embedded controllers. Old School, meet the hot-rodders of the future. RIGHT HERE. Cool project, I don't have an ecm to contribute...but I'll keep stopping by in here once inawhile to see if there is anyway I can contribute. :D | ||
| José_Quiñones |
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| José_Quiñones |
Now what's the goal here? Monitor sensors? You can build your own "breakout box" to splice between the ECM and the wiring harness, then have a display on the dash and a switch to flip between sensor readings. I actually bought enough Deutch connectors and a digital display to do this, but I never started my project, I figured I could do it this winter, but we have not had much of a winter in DC. Reset the TPS at home? I would LOVE to do that Customize the Mapping? That's a whole different ball of wax! The scannalizer is a Kent-Moore product, which is used for GM cars among others. The only difference is the Buell Specific program cartridge. HD's get their own cartridge, depending on which fuel injection version it is. So that tells me that this "scannalizer" sends and receives a certain "standard" set of signals to/from the ECM, and any variations are contained in the vehicle specific cartridge. The trick would be to receive and decode these signals into your laptop/palm device and be able to communicate with it. Is this possible? | ||
| Rempss |
If I can ever get this damn potting compound off the board components and get the parts to the "geek" side (no offense!!) hopefully we can realize all these goals. Jeff | ||
| Jim_Witt |
Jima4media mentioned: If Dynojet has a Power Commander in the works for it, that would probably be the best route to go. Jim, Just to let you know, according to their website, there's one in the works. Cheers, -JW:>) | ||
| Sarodude |
Josè- (damned è took a while to remember...) I imagine the point is to re-map. I'd probably not want to mess with the actual logic. Here's what bothers me... To make the best of EFI, you'd probably want access to a load type dyno - like DynoJet's eddy current dealie. See, that's the killer... IF we were successful at re-mapping the ECM, we wouldn't necessarily know what to tweak unless we then start a thread regarding building Dynos and Data Acq... So, who's idea was this silly thread, anyway? -Saro | ||
| Jima4media |
Jim Witt, Do you remember when the Power Commander II for the X-1 was "in the works?" FOR E I G H T E E N Friggin months. Then when it did come out, people were having problems with it not grounding properly, and giving engine warning indications. And finally, they necessitated a 4 wire O2 sensor for optimal performance. Many people bought them, and ended up taking them off. It wasn't as easy as plugging a PC into a Aprilia, Ducati, Suzuki, Honda, or Triumph and getting much better performance with little trouble. I still like the idea of Power Commanders when they are working properly. Jim X-2.5 | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
What I'm scanning when I have the time is the stuff from the manual regarding communication w/ the ECM via the data connector. It's the same setup all OBDII use (not really, but very similar in principal)...so in short, not only is it possible, it's not that difficult if we have (or can find) the people w/ the expertise to do it. In *theory* it should be relatively simple to alter maps, reset tps, etc...I'm not wanting to re-write the software, just use it's built-in features. Another option we might want to consider is contacting some of the mfgrs of auto ECM hacking stuff...such as autotap or the like. They're experience could probably save lots of time and effort if they're willing to lend a hand...hey, they might find it's a snap and make a few bucks..any good salespeople here??? Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Sarodude |
Jeff- Any more progress? I wish I could get my hands on one in SoCal somewhere 'cause I'm curious as hell what that goop is... -Saro | ||
| Rempss |
Saro - Still picking away at it, trying not to destroy the labeling on top of the components. It is the consistnecy of a pen eraser, not silicone/rubber, it will "chunk" off if its moved enough. I'll keep trying, if I give up and you are interested I will send it to you. Jeff | ||
| Two_Buells |
Any progress yet? | ||
| Rempss |
I have the 3/4 picked apart stock ECM, it's potted in a rubberlike substance. About the consistency of a pen eraser, kind of grainy rubber. I have not picked it up in a while, moved since I last tried at it. I will endeavor to find it and finish it if I don't run out of patience first. Jeff | ||
| Sarodude |
Jeff's da man! -Saro | ||
| X1glider |
Did I start the comeback to this topic? Ooops. I only mentioned modifying the ECM or operating a separate ignition system in order to accomodate the REALLY radical cam profiles. I didn't figure the race ECM could do it right. I wasn't serious about wanting to actually do it. Rempss: This rubber like substance doesn't sound like the conformal coatings we used to use when I designed X-ray equipment, it was clear and hard. Cool to know you are so hard core about this stuff. You seem to be a fountain of knowledge. I'm sure you will prevail but I wonder, how will you ever find out what program was burned into the IC's memory. Typically it would be a standard computer program flashed into a window in the IC. Man, since I found this board, I can't seem to get any work done. If I lose my job, I'll just have to blame it's creators! | ||
| Jima4media |
Here is a news blurb that appeared today on AMA Superbike dot com... Road Atlanta Test Notes honda's computers, track news, etc. by evan williams Wednesday, April 17, 2002 Do you have a Palm device? What do you store on it, phone numbers of women who will never date you or perhaps Aunt Gertrude's meatloaf recipe? Honda's version of the Palm blows yours away. If you've been to the track this year, you might have noticed Honda mechanics plugging a small electronic device into their RC51s, then taking them back to a cradle, connected to Apple Macintosh G4 Powerbook. It looks remarkably similar to a Palm Pilot, although it's not a commercially available product and has "HRC" emblazoned where a manufacturer's logo might be. The devices download all the data from the data acq system and then transfer it to the computer without having to lug -- or drop -- the laptop over the wall, etc. The mechanics can also look at the screens of the devices if they need to do a check in a hurry. Additionally, Honda has the laptops for all three bikes networked together, along with computer guy Darren Marshall's Macintosh (although Marshall isn't at this test). | ||
| Iggy |
hey rempss found this while checking some security stuff. they were discussing removing the resin off chips that were removed from a smart card. here's their technique: Ross Anderson at Cambridge University Computer Laboratory explains how to get out the chips: "Removing the chip is easy. First, we use a sharp knife or hand lathe to cut away the plastic behind the chip module until the epoxy resin becomes visible. Now we settle a few drops of fuming nitric acid (>98% HNO3) on the resin and wait a few minutes until some of it has dissolved (the process can be accelerated by heating up the acid with an infra-red radiator). Before the acid dissolves too much epoxy and gets solid, we wash acid and resin away by shaking the card in acetone. We repeat this procedure around five to ten times until the silicon surface of the die is fully exposed. The chip can then be washed and will be fully functional unless one of the bonding wires has been damaged." hope it helps if you're still into the project | ||
| Sarodude |
Did they happen to mention if the markings on the ICs would still be visible? That's what we're really after in the beginning... -Saro | ||
| Doof |
Identified processor from hacked '01 X1 ECM: Microprocessor is Intel 16-bit AN87C196KD. Also have identified 4K(?) outboard EEPROM 25C320. On underside of board, the edge adjacent to the black connector has "B1M 2699" printed. On edge opposite the connector edge, "100552 REV E" is printed. So, what serial protocol is used to communicate with this thing?  | ||
| Iggy |
nope, it wasn't mentioned. thought we were trying to get rid of the goo. good job doof will start looking at those chip spex once finals are over. | ||
| Sarodude |
OK, who's this Doof character and does he get into the Greasy Geek club without the customary initiation since he got to the identiers first? Good going Doof! -Saro | ||
| Sarodude |
Documents of potential interest... 87C196KD 16-Bit High-Performance CHMOS Microcontroller 8XC196KD Automotive Application Specification Update 8XC196KB/KC/KD: Using the High Speed Input Back to Basics: A/D Converter for the 8XC196KC/KD Back to Basics: High Speed Input for the 8XC196KC/KD Back to Basics: High Speed Output for the 8XC196KC/KD Back to Basics: Interrupts for the 8XC196KC/KD Using Standard ISRs Back to Basics: Serial I/O Port for the 8XC196KC/KD MCS(R) 96 Microcontollers: Back to Basics: Pulse Width Modulator on the 8XC196KC/KD Running Project Builder Target Board for the 8XC196KD in Standalone Mode MCS(R) 96: Interfacing BootBlock Flash Memories to the MCS 96 Family Family User Guide -Saro |
