| Author | Message | ||
     Rocketsprink |
Well, after much thought and reading threads on the BadWeb, I had the race ECM installed and the TPS reset. Had the Drummer on since the end of last year, and man did it pop on decel/engine braking. Now, I don't believe much of a horsepower increase was achieved, but the popping has all but disappeared, the engine runs smoother, I can actually feel a little stronger pull above 4k rpms. The K&N filter is on it's way too. For all the people that are considering the ECM, Techlusion or Power Commander options, I say go with the ECM. I've read way too much about the other options and all the dickin' around with pots, dials, settings, trouble lights, etc,etc. I wish those people that choose to go that route all the luck in the world. You have more patience than me..and apparently more time. If your thing is figuring things out, go with the Techlusion or Power Commander. Put, if you want to ride, and not concern yourself with all that other stuff, get the Race ECM, get your TPS reset and be done with it. | ||
| Crazy_z |
I will agree with you on the race ecm. I have the race ecm and the filter already. I am just waiting until April 28th to install it, the day of my appointment at the Harley shop to get the TPS reset. | ||
| Weeds600 |
Just make sure your dealer actually resets the TPS correctly,I had to go back twice to get it right.Gotta love that harley service! | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Well guys, I will have to agree with you, at least on the 9s. I've done extensive on the road testing and if anything, the race ECM is a bit on the rich side by itself, especially at high throttle openings. Since the TFI only adds gas, I'm going to leave it off. When Buell sells a programmable ECM, I'll be the first in line to get one. | ||
| Hogs |
Hey Jerseyguy, I thought the settings you had 3 , 0,0 8 were good , Guess not for you, Anyways I set my tfi do that and it works a-11111 Excellent, 2nd gear roll ons up in the air gotta like that, Of Course I am using the F O R C E :-)) ( on stock 12 header ) MIght play with adding more fuel on pot 2 or and 3 not sure if I wd. need anymore there though... | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Hogs, I was out riding with some badwebbers after meeting Erik on Saturday. I had the TFI disconnected. We had just ridden around some of the sweetest Jersey curves on the local reservoir road and we came to a stop street. I turned right & when the bike straightened up at maybe 3500RPM I punched it & rode the wheelie 'till revlimit, let it settle back down and banged second hard to get it up again and blew the drive belt off - snapped in half. NJbuell was right behind me & damn near caught it, lol. I think the race ecm is working pretty good. Also, on Saturday, Robxb & I did some 5th gear top end runs & I recorded them. This chart represents a 15 second pull from 55 to 120. Check out the lambdas - still on the slightly rich side. Maybe they program it that way to keep the engine cooler under severe load.  | ||
| Norrisperformance |
From testing I've done on the 12. I'll bet after you install the K&N, your bike with the old style Drummer and your new ecm will be running lean up to 5000. I'll bet she's @ 15.0:1. If this is true, your not getting all the performance out of the bike. And it's not good on the motor. You can get a base line ran on a dyno to find out for sure. Both the local HD dealers charge 32.90 to do this. If it was a 9, I would think different. Looking @ the testing Steve's done. (Message edited by norrisperformance on April 18, 2005) | ||
| Hogs |
Hey Jerseyguy, I thought the settings you had 3 , 0,0 8 were good , Guess not for you, Anyways I set my tfi do that and it works a-11111 Excellent, 2nd gear roll ons up in the air gotta like that, Of Course I am using the F O R C E :-)) ( on stock 12 header ) MIght play with adding more fuel on pot 2 or and 3 not sure if I wd. need anymore there though... | ||
| Hogs |
Oh yes from 3500 and down were you not a little on the lean side before? | ||
| Jerseyguy |
I dunno guys, everyone has to decide for themselves based on their own bike & modifications. For me, for now I'm going to stick to the race ECM & hope for a programmable ECM in the future. One cautionary note to 9 owners: Do not run your bike way too rich with the TFI & race ECM for long. NJBuell is a Buell Tech & has some evidence that it can damage your engine. Court, Are you listening... maybe you could talk to that guy you introduced me to about a programmable ECM... what was his name again...? | ||
| Hogs |
HEy Norris, Just wondering who your post is directed towards? | ||
| Drift |
What about the stock ECM with the TFI. Would that be better? | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Drift - Dobek designed it for the stock EFI, so I'd hope it would be better but I don't know and don't have an opinion. Hogs - That it was lean down low was my initial conclusion. I've been reviewing the data and down low average numbers do get a bit perverted by the fact that when you slam the throttle closed at high RPM it goes WAY lean for a moment since its pumping air. If you look at the charts I posted, look at how the purple trace (lambda) goes sky high after a pull is backed off. Tuning is unfortunately not a black & white issue I'm learning. There is no simple "correct" answer. Its like solving simultaneous equations but you have way too many variables. It takes a lot of time and testing. I showed Erik my data logging system yesterday and was lamenting that I've been trying to out think his guys for a couple of years and haven't had much success. His response was that its hard to beat a team of dedicated engineers who do this every single day. He may have something there. | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Hey Hogs I was referring to Rocketsprink's bike. lol Hey Steve I'm sure the Buell team did a A1 job designing the race kit. But when you change any component, your back to square one. Like some of the following: Force pipe, D&D, Drummer, chopping the air box, etc. If someone was running the exact setup you have on your bike on a nine, with the old style Drummer, air box configured just like yours. I'm convinced by all the testing you've done, the race ecm would work great. But as you know the race ecm does not do the job on my 12, or Spike’s 12. Both bikes where checked on a DynoJet 250 @ the HD dealer. My bike was also checked on an older DynoJet. Both bikes were very lean. So I think it’s safe to say, a race ecm is not enough on a 12 with a Drummer. But it probably is on a nine with a Drummer. I think it’s a good idea to spend $32.00 on a base line run and be sure. Then go from there. A programmable ecm will be nice, but you still have some of the same tuning issues. Still need a gas analyzer, dyno and it still has to be set up. So just like with the tfi, someone’s going to be unhappy. Something else, we are pursuing a perfectly tuned bike, not everyone is, and not everyone seems to care, but I sure do. lol (Message edited by norrisperformance on April 18, 2005) | ||
| Opto |
But as you know the race ecm does not do the job on my 12, or Spike’s 12. Or mine, Fullpower's or Trenchtractor's. Fullpower and I went back to the stock 12 ecm which does the job nicely - I don't think it runs too lean at all, Trench eventually found happiness by adding the TFI. Many others report an actual improvement, as in Rocketsprink and heaps of other people, I originally thought it was my bike and not the ecm, but now that I've sent it back to the USA and it's been tested by one BWB member (bad report) and is in the process of being tested by another BWB member (no report back yet) I'm really feeling that all 12 race ecm's weren't created equal, or as Fullpower put it something like "they're either faulty or they're not". | ||
| Rocketsprink |
I'll bet my bike isn't as lean as it was with the stock ECM and at least I can ride it. | ||
| Norrisperformance |
Hey Rocketsprink You could still check it to make sure. $32.90 @ the HD dealer for a base line run on the dyno. It would be some cheap insurance to save your motor. lol | ||
| Opto |
My 12 race ecm ran richer when on the gas, but was a PITA when just cruising on the highway at legal speeds (real lean, flat spots, pinging when overtaking). To put it all in perspective though, I have actually met a couple of people who have had no rideability problems or any problems at all with the 12 race ecm, and read about heaps of others who are happy...the unhappy 12 race ecm owners are only about (guessing) under 5% of all owners. And one thing in common with the "unhappy" ones is that they're all into getting the most from their bikes...strange... | ||
| M1combat |
Opto... I've placed your race ECM on my bike and it seems to run well... Force pipe, Deleted upper airbox (except for the filter seal), K&N, TFI, Yanked Snorkel. Unrelated mods... CRG Clutch lever, ZG Double Bubble and Metzeler Sportec's. I've only heard it ping once and that was just off idle when it was pretty hot. I'll know this weekend for sure though. Oh, and all this w/o a TPS reset  . | ||
| Opto |
Thanks for trying it Don, this is an educational experience for all of us. | ||
| Jerseyguy |
For now, I'm sticking to the race ECM alone on my 9. I'm hoping for a fully programmable ECM from Buell someday. I still think the race alone is generally rich under load and would like the opportunity to make my own map. | ||
| Hogs |
Jerseyguy, If ya know does the TechnoResearch tool allow one to have it hooked up and either use it for seeing what the A/F ratio are while riding all throughout the rpm band... OR just to log through the run and check back and look at the log?? OR anyone else know for that matter?? | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Hogs, I haven't used the Technoresearch stuff so I don't know. The Innovate Logworks software that I use stores 45 mins of data which you can look at later or run as a simulation. If the computer is hooked up to the LM1 on the bike you can watch everything real time. There is also a real time lcd display of lambda right on the LM1. | ||
| Hogs |
Jerseyguy, Thanks for the info, yeah I was sure you could do that with yours ,but was wondering if one could do the same with the TechnoResearch along with all the other uses it does , You know reset the tps, trouble codes etc.etc Thanks.. | ||
| Jerseyguy |
I wish I could set my TPS. I was talking to a Buell tech who said you could have some effect on the A/F ratio by where you set the TPS within its suggested range. I don't know if this is true or not but it would be interesting to try. I still feel that the race alone is a bit rich a good deal of the time. |
