| Author |
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Jerseyguy
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 10:53 am: | 
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Its an academic exercise anyway. Who knows what the actual air currents look like around the tank? Rider position, fairing location even clothing might have an effect. You'd need a wind tunnel and smoke generators to really know.
This morning the powder snow on the hood of my suburban was blowing forward as I was going down the road at 35. |
Jerseyguy
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 10:58 am: |
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NewXB - There is no doubt that air is going in through that hole. Your engine is an air pump after all. The purely academic question arises "Does it have to suck harder to overcome the Bernoulli effect?"
Hey, it looks cool, don't worry about it. I'm just a geek and can't help myself! |
Rigga
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 11:15 am: |
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ive posted these before but not tested them hard to see if your therory is correct.... i hope not |
Cruisin
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 11:16 am: |
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That's why I said "in theory"...none of us...let me rephrase that - I doubt any of us will go to that extent to find out the exact effects. Most likely because of it's location the air is actually rolling in that pocket where the vent is...to really get it to pull air out it would have to be an exposed surface where air is able to flow smoothly over it.
And expanding on that academic question - "Does the engine have to work harder to overcome the Bernoulli effect more so than it would just to draw air in from the stock intake?" Did I phrase that right? It still may be a good mod to do...now to integrate Gus' idea into the outer airbox cover...
NewXB - if you're feeling the suction at speed, my guess is it's doing it's job allowing more air in - making it worthwhile - Bernoulli effect or not! |
Hremodo
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 11:32 am: |
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just wondering,if you use the open air box conversion kit, you don't need the air box at all? |
Cruisin
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 11:40 am: |
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Correct. In the stock configuration there is the airbox lid that snaps down. Over the lid goes the airbox cover. With the conversion kit you can get rid of the lid - increasing the overall volume of air around the filter.
You technically could get rid of the cover as well, but I wouldn't recommend it. |
Lpd22
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 12:43 pm: |
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Just wondering if this airbox mod would be alright. |
Xring
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 03:13 pm: |
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Jersey and Cruisin are right...it is not likely you'll predict the airflow without more information. For instance, the "ram air" type hood scoops on cars usually don't produce positive pressure on the intake system (although they might help supply cold air)even though they "look like" they would; while one of the few positive pressure points on a car is at the base of the windshield (like the older Chevy cowl induction setup). A hood scoop facing forward would have to be several inches high to produce a ram-air induction.
So it is possible the cut out sides on NewXB9er's bike are actually in a positive pressure area. My guess would be the air in that area is almost still. Tape some pieces of yarn on and give it a test ride. In the name of geek science.
I'd do it but we are getting quite a snowstorm today...
Bill |
Jerseyguy
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 04:14 pm: |
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Bill, I forgot about the yarn thing. I used it setting up the flow to eliminate dead spots in a large process oven we designed a couple of years ago. It's a quick & dirty way to get an idea of what the flow is like. It was amazing how un-intuitive the flow actually was. |
Newxb9er
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 06:00 pm: |
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I'm going to tap pretty flashy stringers from my girlfriends daughters bike on it!! Just kidding. I'll tape some yard or something to the like and test it! In the name of geek science!! Where would you recommend taping it? To the leading edge, or tie it to the grill? |
Biofilter
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 06:27 pm: |
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well since were all posting our boxes again Ill join the party |
Xring
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 09:08 pm: |
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Well, if you're going to tape yarn on, I'd put them all over the airbox cover, just for fun.
Bill |
Tank_bueller
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 09:16 pm: |
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Where would you recommend taping it? To the leading edge, or tie it to the grill?
Both!!
I plan on making an airbox cover out of chicken wire......bet that would flow some cfm!!!
sorry...couldn't help it
p.s...If you're riding and watching the yarn....you ain't watching the road........be careful out there..
(Message edited by tank_bueller on March 11, 2005) |
Kowpow225
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 09:37 pm: |
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Bio-
May I ask how you attached the "grates" to the inside of the airbox? And where did you find the grate material? |
Newxb9er
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 10:16 pm: |
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I'll answer this Bio, since you told me!! The material is from a gutter(house gutters) guard. Got mine at my local hardware store for like 4 bucks, and secured it with silicone caulk. So far so good. I do admit, it was a PAIN to mold it to where I cut my holes.
(Message edited by newxb9er on March 11, 2005) |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 10:04 am: |
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Chrstipher (newxb9r),
You did use sensor safe silicone, right?
Using plumbing grade Silicone caulk anywhere in the intake system of the motorcycle (or anywhere on the engine, really) is a good way to kill or substantially degrade the O2 sensor. The physics of the device makes them very sensitive to silicone molecules.
Figured that should be mentioned here in any case
Al |
Redxb
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 10:20 am: |
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So then whats a good adhesive to use besides silicone ? |
Kowpow225
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 12:15 pm: |
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Sensor safe silicone....where could I find that?
What exactly does it do to the 02 sensor or what should someone expect if they put regular silicone adhesive in the intake area?
 |
Rigga
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 12:53 pm: |
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if the silicone can get to the o2 sensor through the exhaust pipe then you have a more serious problem of the air filter not sealing correctly in the first place |
Kowpow225
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 01:51 pm: |
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Rigga, I think we are referring to the molecules or 'vapor', if you will, not solid pieces of silicone coming in contact with the sensor after the combustion process. If that were the case... well let's hope not! |
Biofilter
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 01:55 pm: |
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I used a sheet from home depot (hardware section)and yes it was a pain in the ars to mold and then i used silicon to hold it in place. Dont really think the silicon is gonna be a problem. I also backed that up with a piece of hobby sheet plastic that has small squares cut into it. this blocks the veiw of the inside of my box. but still plenty of hole to let in the wind. |
Xring
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 01:57 pm: |
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RTV (blue) silicone sealer/adhesive will say on the packaging if it is sensor-safe. I know the high-temp (red) RTV I've used before says sensor safe on it.
Good info. I never knew what was meant by that.
Bill |
Newxb9er
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 01:59 pm: |
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Al...Thanks for the suggestion!!! I think I need to find another product then!! I need to find the right stuff now! |
M1combat
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 06:30 pm: |
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"Dont really think the silicon is gonna be a problem"
Good luck to you then. Let us know how it turns out  . |
Norrisperformance
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 07:30 pm: |
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It looks like to me, air rolling of the front fairing is dumped into the intake scoop.
If this is true, then any openings in the air box would hurt the efficiency of the
design. But I like the sound of the intake. |
Norrisperformance
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 07:33 pm: |
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rolling off |
Lpd22
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 08:53 pm: |
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So what you are saying is that putting holes in your airbox like Bio's is useless except for giving you more noise. If I am wrong correct me. |
Norrisperformance
| | Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 11:11 pm: |
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Thats what I think. But I'd really like to know
the truth. If I knew it would not hurt
the bikes performance, I'd be cutting mine. |
Biofilter
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 12:27 am: |
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i dont see how more air to your filter can hurt the performance? my bike runs great. |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 03:33 am: |
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Any auto parts store will have it in a few colors/temperatures/listed purposes. Just look for the words "sensor Safe" in the product title, it'll be real evident.
Al |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 12:37 pm: |
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BTW, we had a customer who said his bike had started to run like crap. Went thru the normal stuff, couldn't figure it out..I asked him if he has recently used any silicone near his intake tract, and he said that he had caulked his velocity stack in recently with home depot plumbing grade stuff. He replaced the O2 sensor, bike then ran fine. So it's real, you don't want to use regular caulk in your intake tract, it WILL trash your O2 sensor. The bike will not run right with a degraded O2 sensor, it is a key input for the ECM, both for closed loop and open loop (because open loop depends upon a correctly set AFV during closed loop)
Al |
