| Author | Message | ||
     Buellbum |
my belt slipped a tooth several times today under full throttle. i'm assuming that i have to tighten the belt tensioner, right? | ||
| Hughlysses |
Assuming you’re talking about the M2 in your profile, you need to post this in the Old School Buell sub-forum. Normally the belts won’t slip unless they’re VERY loose or there’s another problem. Over-tightening the belts, which can wreck the transmission output shaft bearing, is a more common problem. I’d suggest you inspect the belt closely for damage; you may have lost a tooth or two or one of your sprockets may be worn out. If those are OK, this link will take you to a page showing the belt adjustment procedure recommended by the late Badwebber LaFayette Jenne who was THE authority on keeping tube framed Buells running: http://www.purpony.net/beltchain-adjustment-buell- tube-frame-classt-101.html. | ||
| Buellbum |
thanks for the link. this guy says that the ONLY thing that will cause a belt to skip is a bad sprocket. my bike only has 9,800 miles on it so that's not likely. i'll look at it in depth today. thanks! | ||
| Phelan |
Check your belt for missing teeth also. | ||
| Buellbum |
yeah, going to do that soon. THANKS! | ||
| Hughlysses |
I'll bet that's the problem. You don't have many miles on that M2, but the belt is ~17 years old (assuming it's the original), so it's bound to have deteriorated somewhat from age. | ||
| Hootowl |
A worn gear can also feel like the belt skipping, from what I understand. | ||
| Buellbum |
well, i was going to tighten the belt just a tad but looked at that huge nut holding the wheel on and realized i didn't have a socket big enough. what size is it? | ||
| Buellbum |
@Hughlysses: i looked at the belt and it's fine. i noticed that it's rubbing just a little so i'm going to tighten it a bit. that link about you posted was interesting but i think it's wrong. the guy emphatically states that if the belt skips it's definitely a worn pulley but my bike has under 10k miles so it can't be. the belt seems a bit loose so when i get a socket big enough for that huge wheel bolt, i'll tighten it just a bit and see how it goes. | ||
| Ratbuell |
What's it rubbing ON? "Scary loose" is the key to belt tension on a tube frame Buell (and that is going on the assumption this is the M2 mentioned above, and not an 1190 EBR, which is what this forum is for); you should be able to grab the belt midway between pulleys and twist it 90 degrees. You can absolutely wear a pulley in 10k - wheelies, stoppies, drag racing, part defect, it can certainly happen, You can also strip the splines off the output shaft (which is what the front pulley mounts to). Same thing - wheelies, hard acceleration, hard shifts, can all strip them out. Same for a 17 year old belt, and it can easily look "fine" if the tooth hasn't come OFF the belt, but has peeled and rebounds into position when there's no pull force on it (hence the "sometimes" symptom). If you want to go randomly making (ill-advised) adjustments, it's your motorcycle. Me, I'd get a shop manual, trust the experience of the riders here on this forum, and find the actual cause of the problem before you make an adjustment that could very well make the problem worse (and more expensive). A belt that's too tight can not only snap, it can cause excessive wear on the output shaft bearing, causing issues not only with the front pulley but also with the transmission itself. None of which is easy, or cheap, to fix. Me, I wouldn't take the chance - I'd find the real cause through careful diagnosis. Your bike, your choice. I believe the axle nut is a 32mm. But, get a book before you take it off because you don't want to over-torque the axle when you reinstall it - that can crush the spacer between wheel bearings and cause bearing failure in your wheel. Get the right torque spec before you go loosening things. And make sure you move the left and right sides of the axle exactly the same amount so the wheel (and pulleys) are properly aligned; crooked wheels can cause brake wear, tire problems, and belt/pulley failure from side-walking. | ||
| Dave |
Likely need to revisit what is being experienced. What's going on? "Belt Slipping" is a conclusion for the entire drive line and not my #1 go to. Tubers like the belt sloppy loose. How'd you get to belt slipping a tooth or 2? When you're motoring down the road in 3rd, wack the throttle... what happens? Or big throttle in 2nd? Wack the throttle in 5th? I tend to think "KISS". Often it's the regular maintenance stuff like clutch cable & clutch adjustment. DAve | ||
| Buellbum |
RatBuell: it's rubbing on the very top of the swing-arm. there's a shiny spot under the belt. that's why i think it needs to be tightened just a tad. i don't think that the bike was abused but who knows. Dave: it only skips a notch under hard acceleration after it winds up and i hit 2nd gear. accelerating hard in 5th never causes it to jump. | ||
| Zacks |
Not for nothing, but if it's only in 2nd gear... Had that problem years ago on a different machine. 2nd gear engagement dogs were rounded off with one also broken. Was working at a shop at the time. 3 models -same year - all came in with the issue within a month. | ||
| Buellbum |
here's a pic of the rub mark on the swing-arm.  | ||
| Buellbum |
Zacks: i hope that this isn't the problem. i'll try hard acceleration in 3rd and see what happens BUT i think that clearly the belt is too loose as per the pic above. | ||
| Zacks |
For your sake, I hope it's not the issue also. Just passing along tribal info in case you're ending up chasing a non-cause. One of those bikes mentioned HAD no 2nd gear anymore - so it was obvious. 'Course it was also chain driven. | ||
| Buellbum |
Zacks: yup, it only does it in 2nd gear. but don't understand how it can slip then catch. you'd think that if the cogs were bad they'd either work or not. | ||
| Buellbum |
OK, i found this post.. looks like 2nd gear is a problem for sporty engines. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/476 23/819247.html?1514056223 | ||
| Ratbuell |
And there ya go - research, and better troubleshooting. For the sake of argument...get a shop manual. Do a PROPER, start-to-finish, clutch adjustment at both the cable AND the clutch hub. If your clutch is out of spec, the 1-2 is the highest-torque, generally hardest shift and if you have a hiccup in clutch engagement it'll rear its head there more than any other gear change. If that doesn't do it...time to pull the primary and pull the transmission. | ||
| Zacks |
2nd gear is usually the problem child. Simply because the gears have the furthest to go (relatively speaking) as they pass thru neutral. So more opportunity to not have the speeds match properly. Annnnnd if you're lazy in the 1:2 shift, that 'crunch' you hear is the sound of (gear) dog abuse. | ||
| Buellbum |
how hard is it to replace that 2nd gear cog and where can i buy one? the problem isn't excessive only when i really twist the throttle and it 2nd so i can let it go for a while but i'd like to do the job eventually. | ||
| Crusty |
Buellbum; get the Factory Shop Manual and follow the directions. Since it's your first time doing the job, don't try any shortcuts. It's a Sportster Transmission, so the parts will be available from any H-D dealer. It will be an interesting learning experience for you, and you'll have a better knowledge of how your bike is put together. Good luck and have fun! | ||
| Zacks |
What Crusty said. But at minimum, you're going to need the 2nd gear cog as well as it's mate. Also, check the shift fork to make sure it isn't bent and what initially caused the problem. | ||
| Buellbum |
crusty: yes, that's so true. i can do this job at my leisure because it's not slipping to bad right now. Zacks: you mean the cog and the 2nd gear? that makes sense because the holes in the gear must be worn too from slipping. but where is the CHEAPEST place to get these parts. i hate buying from the HD stealer. i talked to a guy online who sells the gears. he told me that i may have to replace 3rd gear too because you have to engage 3rd gear to get 2nd gear. this makes no sense to me. what's the deal? should i try changing the gear oil to see if that helps before i go crazy and pull the trans? what oil is best? (Message edited by buellbum on January 08, 2018) | ||
| Zacks |
Cogs/gears - interchangeable in conversation. Someone who's more anal will likely post the definitions. The transmission gears all slide along a shaft and freewheel until engaged. The dogs are essentially teeth on the side of the gear itself. They mate up with the adjacent gear via elongated holes. The shift fork(s) are what push the gears over. You can find exploded diagrams on line to help picture it. Even here: http://badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/36 3626.html?1212155977 So, yes, you will likely need to replace the 2nd and 3rd gears. And as I said perhaps the fork as well. As far as where to go? If it were me, I'd start with Lance at St. Paul HD. Just as a thank you for committing to helping keep parts available. | ||
| Buellbum |
Zacks: thanks for the info. i'm going to change the oil first and see if it helps. the manual says "sport trans fluid" part# 98854-96. i swear i read somewhere that i could use 80-90w gear oil. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Why would you use gear oil, when the manual calls for sport-trans? This has been said repeatedly in this thread - GET THE SERVICE MANUAL. That is step ONE. End of discussion. Once you have the book you can see diagrams and pictures of what's inside; you can see the factory fluids for the various spots on the bike; you can see the torque specs for the involved fasteners; and you can do the job the RIGHT way. Keep in mind, your electrical system swims in this fluid, along with your clutch assembly. The wrong fluid WILL smoke your stator, guaranteed. Now, so you could save $15 in fluid, you've tripled your parts expense because now you need a new stator assembly (and possibly a new clutch), along with new gears. You can do it cheap...and do it over...or you can do it right. Your choice. | ||
| Zacks |
Kevin Cameron discusses more than just the shifting aspects in this video. Also explains well (as usual) how the gearbox works etc. Worth 9 minutes of your time if you are unclear. https://www.cycleworld.com/what-are-causes-poor-sh ifting-in-motorcycling |
