| Author | Message | ||
     Wbrisett |
Just spoke with the local dealer. They currently have three EBRs, but can't sell them due to EBR not having manufacturing licenses for Texas. Looking at the board, seems to be a few folks buying bikes. How are you doing it? Has EBR just not completed all the paperwork in all the states yet? | ||
| Ebrfan |
They sell them in several states, including Michigan, Illinois, Iowa and California. If the dealer can't sell it as a new automobile then that is all the better, because they can't ask anywhere near msrp for it. Look on cycletrader and haggle a price. Shoot for $10k out the door and walk away at $11k for a new machine. They should be able to be titled just as any assembled (chopper type project) bike is titled at a DMV. | ||
| Froggy |
Had no problem getting mine in Connecticut back in May. Brought a check from the bank, walked out with the bike and MSO as I would if it was any other motorcycle. (Message edited by Froggy on October 23, 2015) | ||
| Germblast |
I bought mine from a dealer in San Diego and they shipped it to Connecticut for free. Took delivery, registered it just before the holiday with no issues. | ||
| Wbrisett |
Ebrfan: As it turns out they are just holding onto them right now because they can't sell them (at all apparently). When I spoke to them a while back they said "we're not going to have a fire sale on them"... However, these are 2014 bikes and with this nearly being 2016, I think they may have to a bit. The bikes are already two model years old. Anyhow, Seems the rules for buying and selling vary from state to state. And looks like if I want an SX, I'm going to have to look outside of Texas. Thanks all. | ||
| Ducbsa |
"Only" a 7 hour drive to the Baton Rouge dealer! | ||
| Court |
>>>>Seems the rules for buying and selling vary from state to state. Kinda. First off all a manufacturer has to have all the federal approvals. The "old EBR", the company that went out of business had them. The "new EBR" (unrelated legally to the "old EBR") does not and is getting them for the new company. I doubt, although . . . as pervasively stated . . . am eager to be proven wrong . . that the new company can "piggyback" on the old. They are totally unrelated legal entities. I could not, for example, have gone to a GM auction when they went bankrupt, bought some leftover inventory and sold it as Chevrolets. In addition to the federal regs, there are states . . . .yep, different in all . . that require registration as a vehicle manufacturer in order to have dealers and conduct transactions in the state. I suspect, as various folks have alluded to, that many folks (the numbers are already starting to build at the "new EBR" scrambling to accomplish these things as quickly as possible. Just a wild ass guess on my part . . . . | ||
| Steveford |
One of my buddies in NJ bought one in NH a few weeks back with no problems. $11K does seem to be the magic number. | ||
| Oddball |
Court, I think your example blurs some points. I can agree with your point of old EBR and new EBR being separate legal entities. When you say "I could not, for example, have gone to a GM auction when they went bankrupt, bought some leftover inventory and sold it as Chevrolets." i ask for some clarification. I can agree if you mean buying a pile of parts which you then assemble into complete autos and claim them to be "Chevrolets". Your example makes no mention of name/trademark ownership without which slapping on a bow tie wouldn't be allowed. Which is a minor problem compared to all the federal requirements for autos. However, if you bought already manufactured vehicle(s) they are chevrolets from then till they meet the shredder. They would be "used" without any warranties but still chevrolets. State rules may make things difficult it appears. Sounds like a load of laws need expunged. If those states don't allow vehicles without currently registered manufacturers to be sold/registered i feel for collectors of dead company's products. No sales/registrations for a Henderson or any other dead cycle brand's motorcycles. | ||
| Ducbsa |
Court may be referring to new bike sales. | ||
| Malott442 |
I have a used vehicle for sale. And by used, I mean an 1100 mile, white, 2014 SX. | ||
| Davegess |
I think, do not know, that any EBR bikes at dealers are from the EBR that went into Chapter 128 and held licenses tousle in all 50 states and have full EPA NHTSA certs. Any of those bike can be sold at retail by a dealer. Some dealers may be reluctant to sell them for a variety of reasons | ||
| Wbrisett |
Davegess... AF1 Racing here in Austin won't sell them because they have told me they legally cannot sell them. Now, as others have pointed out there are ways to get around this and honestly now I'm beginning to wonder how the new EBR getting certifications would help since as Court pointed out it is a totally different company. But that said, looks like there are plenty of options. I just need to figure out what I want to do now. | ||
| Davegess |
Interesting. I wonder what the legal reason is? | ||
| Court |
Interesting. I wonder what the legal reason is? I'd concur. There may be tertiary commercial issues . .. lack of parts and lack of warranty . . . that may diminish the price but I am aware of no reasons that would preclude a dealer from selling existing stock. The one exception might be if they were floor planned under the G. E. Capital program and, technically, were not chattel property of the dealer. | ||
| Wbrisett |
Court: According to the folks at AF1-Racing I talked to on Friday, they reiterated what they had said to me before, which was until there was a valid Manufacturer's License in place in Texas, they couldn't sell the bike. I would assume that they would be itching to sell the bikes if they could, so I have no doubt they are telling the truth. Anyhow, a secondary question would be what are people doing about warranty and parts. I would assume any EBR is not being purchased 'as-is', but what about part availability? | ||
| Elvis |
I would guess it may be related in some ways to this: http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/31/8694673/tesla-lo ses-fight-to-sell-cars-in-texas These laws designed to 'protect' consumers (it seems dealers rather than consumers are the ones lobbying for them, so the actual purpose may be debatable) prevent direct sales to consumers. Since the idea is that dealers are required to ensure buyers will be able to get service, it stands to reason that similar laws require the dealers to be registered in some way and able to perform certified service (otherwise Tesla could probably find loopholes that would allow them to sell their cars through some non-servicing intermediary). When HD dropped Buell, this wasn't a problem because HD still took responsibility for parts and dealer assistance. If this line of thinking is valid (and it's based on speculation on top of guess on top of speculation, so it could be way off), I would think that if EBR were willing to take responsibility to provide the required parts, assistance to registered dealers etc., those dealers would be able to sell existing inventory. And that raises an interesting point - former EBR dealers (and specifically dealers who hold large inventories who might be most upset with EBR) may, in some cases in some states, need the new entity to help them move existing inventory. That could give the new EBR some leverage with former dealers to renew their relationship. | ||
| Court |
>>>>I would think that if EBR were willing to take responsibility to provide the required parts, assistance to registered dealers etc., those dealers would be able to sell existing inventory. That'd be a long shot. Harley-Davidson OWNED Buell and all they did was discontinued production of a model line. The OLD EBR went out of business in Receivership and a variety of folks (our focus is on Bruce Belfer and what he bought) bought various pieces of the defunct company, I'm not certain the new entity can assume liability for the old entity. But . . . it's Wisconsin . . . who the hell knows. I suspect we'll hear something interesting by the end of this week, early next. | ||
| Wbrisett |
>> I suspect we'll hear something interesting by the end of this week, early next. I'm obviously out of the loop. Is there supposed to be some announcement forthcoming about the new EBR? | ||
| Steeleagle |
I need a better understanding of the whole GE thing. Is not the concept that GE was the lending institution for dealers for them to carry inventory, and that dealers therefore paid interest to GE for unsold inventory? I ask because I visited a dealer who had 3 bikes "in the back" that was hesitant to actively sell them because he'd have to "write the big check to GE". Unless sold for a loss who would continue to want to pay interest instead of getting out from under a loan? I must be thinking in too simplistic terms. Unless the only current options are to 1) sell at a loss or 2) wait (and pay) for the hope of restored market value and sell at (perhaps) sticker, NOT selling them makes no fiscal sense. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I'm obviously out of the loop. Is there supposed to be some announcement forthcoming about the new EBR? Last month on Facebook, Erik responded to the question "When can we expect some good news?" with "Hopefully by the end of the month". While that didn't happen, Bruce Belfer posted this update a few days later here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=253912&post=2510401#POST2510401 (Edit- link corrected) (Message edited by Hughlysses on October 26, 2015) | ||
| Wbrisett |
Just as an point of interest, when I spoke to the folks here at AF1-Racing, they said they weren't not having a fire sale and couldn't even sell the bike at 14K and make any money (don't know the truth in that one). Initially, they said they were going to send back unused inventory, but that never happened. Instead, they have three EBRs on the floor that they simply won't/can't sell. Very odd. But Steeleagle, your question is interesting because I also think maybe too simplistic terms. I just can't imagine what is really going on when you have bikes on the showroom floor but can't/won't sell them. | ||
| Terrys1980 |
Texas does have some "different" laws when it comes to buying and selling vehicles. I think if you lived outside of Texas they could find a way to sell the bike to you. The dealer I bought mine from in Florida thought they could just send me the MSO and the bike and be done with it but it didn't work out like that. The dealer had to register/title the bike then do a title transfer. | ||
| Badgerbueller1125 |
I suspect we won't hear anything until 2016. Next court date is 12/14/15. Here is the court record of events from 10/16/15. "Receiver Michael S Polsky in court. Michael Brennan in Court for Attorney Cahill. Steve Nerger financial advisor to Atty. Polsky also present in Court. Attorney Timothy Nixon in court for Debtor Erik Buell Racing, LLC. Court in session @ 1:30 p.m. Appearances made. Matter before the Court for status hearing. Mr. Polsky makes a record of activity as far as payments, sale, earnest money, failure of sale of operating assets. Mr. Polsky provides court with statement - addresses paying of former employee wage claims. Mr. Polsky responds to Court's questions as to unsecured claims. 1:37 p.m. Attorney Nixon makes statement. 1:38 p.m. Mr. Polsky addresses wage payment motion and rights of employees. 1:43 p.m. - Court makes a record and grants Receiver's motion regarding for payment of wage claims and fee applications as indicated in the motion. 1:45 p.m. - Court goes off the record to address next court date for motion regarding sale of operating costs. Back in session @ 1:46 p.m. with same appearances. 1:47 p.m. - Attorney Nixon and Brennan supplement their record and responds to Court's questions regarding sale with respect by Atlantic Metals and what happens now. Court in recess @ 1:49 p.m. Minutes filed. Motion hearing scheduled for December 14, 2015 at 10:00 am." References: Case 2015CV000248 http://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetails.do;jsessionid =27182BDCE9DB54252F6F9A88CA00FA75.render6?countyNo =64&caseNo=2015CV000248&cacheId=2B671892371B2ABC1D 880E5515DF90B5&recordCount=1&offset=0 (Message edited by badgerbueller1125 on October 27, 2015) | ||
| Hughlysses |
^ While Atlantic Metals is mentioned in the record above, the sale of specific EBR assets to that company has already been finalized and approved by the Court. All of the info above appears to be related to the divvying up of the proceeds of that sale including paying wage claims of former employees and other claims. Those claims should not have any bearing on the "new" EBR. | ||
| Pmjolly |
Wayne, I will be riding my 1190RX with some of the Hellbuellies next weekend for Thrills in the Hills down near Leaky. You should stop by. If you really want one, you might check out the dealer just a little further north of Austin in Killeen. They are advertising EBR's on Craigslist as recently as a couple of weeks ago. http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/mcd/5259837446.ht ml | ||
| Wbrisett |
Thanks. Pmjolly... The folks at AF-1 racing have contacted me, and I do have to publicly acknowledge their openness and honestly. But after all is said and done, I'm rethinking the EBR. Mostly due to things like lack of warranty, and the huge question mark when it comes to parts availability. AF-1 said they should be able to get it titled for me even though EBR doesn't have the proper licensing anymore here in the state. Yesterday, I went out and test rode a few other bikes. I have to say, I was mighty impressed with everything about the BMW S1000R. The Triumph Speed Triple was a close second... I'm planning on doing some additional test rides on various bikes, and I'll decide what to do for a new bike... or I might end up just keeping what I have now for a while. I may just hold off for a few months until things have sorted themselves out in EBR land. I'm not going to make Thrills, but would like to see that RX in person (I have been drooling over the SX myself). (Message edited by wbrisett on October 30, 2015) | ||
| Ebrfan |
Wbrisett, some food for thought: For the prices you can get the EBR's at right now you can't beat that deal for a new machine. If you can turn a wrench and follow the electronic service manual videos then servicing these machines is really easy, and the forums are your "extended service support", rather than the dealers who are running scared. The SX is a sweet bike, has good street riding posture, handles superb and sticks to the road/track, and is easily converted to an RX sportbike configuration for track days. Oh, and buy American! | ||
| Wbrisett |
Thing is, I have to find one of the 'deals'. But I'm not opposed to wrenching... have torn apart my previous Uly more times than I care to mention.  That said, my biggest concern is getting parts. AF-1 tells me Parts Unlimited has a fair amount of stock on-hand, but some things are already out of stock (dash, Front discs, and ECUS were mentioned to me in an email). And that's the crux of the issue. 11K-13K for a bike that in a few years *could* be problematic because of parts availability. So that's certainly a concern of mine. That said, if the new EBR gets going, then things could be just fine. So, it's now a gamble and I'm not sure if I should take that gamble. | ||
| Froggy |
Good news is that all of those are typically reliable, so you shouldn't have to worry about replacing those. ECUs and brake disks are available aftermarket should it come to it, but you would likely need to improvise something for a dash. That said I do understand your concern, eventually something will break or wear out, and not everything has an aftermarket replacement. | ||
| Wbrisett |
Thanks all. So have there been any real issues with the EBR 1190 (RX or SX)? My 1125CR went through 3 stators under warranty before there was one that actually didn't burn up. That's the type of issue I actually worry about. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I'd suggest you check in at ebrforum.com for info on issues. From what I've seen, several guys have had minor niggles, while I've seen at least one significant issue (repeatedly blowing out front rocker cover gasket) that last I saw the guy hadn't be able to diagnose. Unless I found a super deal, I wouldn't be in a hurry to buy at this point. HOPEFULLY "new" EBR will be back in business shortly (technically in business for the first time) and you should be able to find out if they'll warranty these bikes, provide spares, etc. That might have a major bearing on your decision process. | ||
| Readyxb |
>>I'd suggest you check in at ebrforum.com for info on issues. Additionally, there's the EBR 1190 Owners Group on Facebook. A lot of great questions, knowledge, and known issues gets shared there. | ||
| Classax |
Dash you may have a problem sourcing, but ECU's and just about everything else is available. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Badgerbueller1125- Looks like you discovered a big piece of info last month in your post above. See post from Bruce Belfer here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=253912&post=2515747#POST2515747 In a nutshell, the sale of EBR to AMG fell through due to Hero-related issues. New auction on December 10th; Bruce plans to be there and still intends to buy it. | ||
| Ljm |
Well, I hope most things can be gotten. I have to keep the Mrs. bike together even if mine is a donor. At the end of the day, I am just happy riding. She loves her rx. On the hero front, I presume that with the re-auction that their right to claim, and to basically f' this up again is over? | ||
| Hughlysses |
On the hero front, I presume that with the re-auction that their right to claim, and to basically f' this up again is over? Larry, I believe so, but you just never know. According to what Dave Gess posted, Hero initially wanted a whole year to be able to say "Oh yea, we forgot, that stuff is ours too". Bruce was able to convince the court to limit Hero to 3 months or whatever it was, but even that caused issues. | ||
| Badgerbueller1125 |
My point is...patience. Until then...hope it all works out for Erik, Bruce or whoever ends up saving EBR. Also, keep saving so we can all afford one! | ||
| Hughlysses |
Also, keep saving so we can all afford one! I heard that... | ||
| Sprintst |
Too risky imo At least I can still get parts for my 1125, and there are plenty of used parts out there | ||
| Mackja |
Just bought an SX to go with my RX, deal was just to good! | ||
| Hughlysses |
Just bought an SX to go with my RX, deal was just too good! Was that you on Rider's Hill FB page? Congratulations! | ||
| Mackja |
Yup that was me, they had a blue one also, but it is sold to someone out of Tennessee. They have 2 yellow, 2 red, and one black RX models left. | ||
| Hillis3 |
but it is sold to someone out of Tennessee The blue one is actually headed to Virginia. I'll be heading down in a couple of weeks to pick it up. Can't wait to get it home. | ||
| Motorman1965 |
I bought the black one from Riders Hill Saturday and I will be picking it up next Weds since they are shut all week. They are great people and easy to deal with. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Man, I should ask them for a commission, since I posted their sale on the Quickboard right after they posted it on Facebook!  | ||
| Motorman1965 |
We didn't even talk price. Told him I wanted the black or yellow one. He did the paperwork for me. Emailed me back saying it will be 191 a month. I told him yes please. Can't go wrong. 191 for the bike and 55 a month for insurance. I sure could not go wrong on that. Tried to talk the wife into letting me buy two but it didn't work. I never saw the dealership online. My buddy went into the dealership looking for parts for his guzzi and saw the EBRs on sale. Called me and the next day I had my bill of sale in my email box. | ||
| Terrys1980 |
For all you guys buying new EBRs, I have a new tail tidy for sale..Power Bronze brand... |
