| Author | Message | ||
     Classax |
So next year EBR will go to market with a basically analog 450lbs VTwin making a lowly 185Hp and 101ftlbs of torque. It will face: the 420lbs 205hp 1299 with cornering ABS and up/down quickshifter The 450lbs supercharged 250hp H2 and 200hp zx10 The 209hp R1 200+hp 445lbs S1krr An as yet unrevealed new RSV4 450lbs packing at least 187hp. The 2015s are chock full of electronic riders aids with abs quickshifters, ride modes and the like. One can never have too much power(except right a that split second at the start of a high side.) I can see it being a missssssssserable failure in the upcoming shootouts. Yet here is the the thing, having ridden a race prepped Panigale and the 2013 S1KRR, I'm left with one great overwhelming impression. Unless you're truly talented anything more than 160hp or so at the rear wheel is great for sliding and flashing the TC light but not much else. Texas will loose TWS one of only two tracks big enough to let a liter bike stretch out next year. Few other tracks will let you get the EBR into 6th gear and many not even 5th for more than a brief second. With biking world going more and more electronic, are there still people in the market for a sportbike that actually requires the rider to have advanced skills like throttle control and braking feel? Never thought I's see the day when 167rwhp was pathetically low for a street bike. If you are EBR how do you respond? | ||
| Xb9er |
"If you are EBR how do you respond?" -Race results -Customer Service -communicating ease of maintenance compared to the competition | ||
| Phelan |
EBR has a plan. This much we know, trust me. Contrary to Superbikeplanet's beliefs, EBR didn't go into WSBK to try to win races unprepared. They went in for data acquisition and experience. Geoff and Aaron are great riders but WSBK experience will allow them to take their skills to a whole new level. I wouldn't be surprised if they both return to AMA (actually whatever the new name is, I forget) next year with intent and success at winning races, especially considering that the rules will closely resemble WSBK next year. | ||
| Classax |
I'm thinking of how they are going to sell motorcycles when: For instance the new R1 is now 10lbs lighter, via the use of magnesium to inlcude the wheels, and titanium conrods, to get close to the 200hp mark. In addition here is the electronics package list Electronics Package: Inertial Measurement Unit (IMU) is the first on production motorcycle featuring six axis of measurement: It consists of a gyro sensor that measures pitch, roll, and yaw, as well as an accelerometer, or G-sensor, that measures acceleration in the fore-aft, up-down, and right-left directions…all at a rate of 125 calculations per second. The IMU communicates with the Yamaha Ride Control (YRC) Yamaha's most advanced electronics package ever offered on a production motorcycle. Includes Power Delivery Mode, Traction Control System, Slide Control System, Lift Control System, Launch Control System and Quick Shift System. All these systems are adjustable and can be saved within four presets. Power Delivery Mode (PWR), similar to the earlier “D-Mode” system, lets the rider choose from four settings of throttle-valve opening rate in relation to the degree of throttle-grip opening to best match their riding conditions. Of course back in my day(yesterday actually) ALL the riders did all that. I kind of liked it that way too. Variable Traction Control System (TCS) with lean angle calculating the differential in front to rear wheel speed as well as the lean angle, it helps prevent rear wheel spin when exiting corners. As lean angle increases, so does the amount of control…with ten separate settings (off and 1-9) enabling the rider to dial in the exact level of control needed. Slide Control System (SCS), the first of its kind on a production motorcycle, comes directly from the YZR-M1. It works in tandem with the IMU, where, if a slide is detected while accelerating during hard leaning conditions, the ECU will step in and control engine power to reduce the slide. This too can be adjusted by the rider. Four settings (1-3 and off). Lift Control System (LIF) IMU detects the front to rear pitch rate and the ECU controls engine power to reduce the front wheel lift during acceleration. Four settings (1-3 and off). Are you kidding me. The fear of Highside made me both a faster and more skillful rider! It also kept me slow enough long enough to learn how to be fast. Launch Control System (LCS) limits engine rpms to 10,000 wide open throttle. It maintains optimum engine output in conjunction with input from the TCS and LIF systems to maximize acceleration from a standing start.. Three setting levels regulate the effect (1-2 and off). Yea who needs to learn how to modulate a clutch and power on the start when you can just pin it and go! Quick Shift System (QSS) cuts engine output so riders can up-shift without using the clutch and closing the throttle, for quicker lap times, also with three variable settings (1-2 and off). Assist and slipper clutch is used to give the rider more confident downshifts when entering corners aggressively. Not mention the ease of getting data acquisition with their own wifi gps and smart phone app. On the one hand I like the ole school Mechanically sound approach EBR has taken but the electronics package of the new Ducatis, BMW, Kawis, Yamahas and Aprilias are certainly way more attractive to new buyers, particularly young buyers. To even get a sniff from the bench racing crowd you're going to have 200hp. EBR is going to have to really do something to separate themselves as a top OEM in this market. | ||
| Mackja |
All this technology will come at a price, who knows, EBR might be the bargain bike to own. | ||
| Ljm |
Do well in customer service and satisfaction, identify and market to a group like us Buell owners, but younger, capitalize on being American, and do well at the club level. And be the easiest and funnest bike to ride fast (Message edited by ljm on November 03, 2014) | ||
| Froggy |
Indeed, that Yamaha sounds amazing, and that electronics package can easily mean the difference between simply screwing up a turn, and death. Can even make a significant difference with something beyond my control, like emergency maneuvers to dodge a distracted cager, or safely coming to a stop on top of a oil slick in a thunder storm. Easier to control launches and quickshifting is a nice bonus too. | ||
| Xb9er |
The new R1 package is just plain awesome for both road and track use. That being said, how will it hold up in the long-run, e.g. computer flaws? In todays age I'm sure it will be fine. But for me, when it comes to electronics, less is more. the slide control system sounds like a great option, especially in race situations when you are battling for position and your every thought and reaction could make or break you; high-side or continuing to battle. All this new technology gives EBR to think about and maybe not think about when considering marginal utility and opportunity cost. | ||
| Xb9er |
The new R1 package is just plain awesome for both road and track use. That being said, how will it hold up in the long-run, e.g. computer flaws? In todays age I'm sure it will be fine. But for me, when it comes to electronics, less is more. the slide control system sounds like a great option, especially in race situations when you are battling for position and your every thought and reaction could make or break you; high-side or continuing to battle. All this new technology gives EBR to think about and maybe not think about when considering marginal utility and opportunity cost. | ||
| Ratbuell |
If you spec-sheet race, EBR will lose. If you actually RIDE the motorcycles, you will see how well the EBR package performs...and it's all analog. As they add digital aids...it'll just get better. I've spent too many years as a 'street hack' rider, walking away from the ricer crowd on mountain roads with my Uly and CR, to be too worried. Regardless of 'electronic aids', Buells/EBR's just....work.  | ||
| Dynasport |
Speaking of all this technology, which I am not against, I just wonder about how many of these bikes will ever be coveted and restored as a classic? People restore old Nortons and the like, but I wonder if it will be possible to restore and old bike all these technical wonders. Maybe it won't be a big deal. It's not really important to me one way or the other. I'm just curious what bikes, if any, people will be finding in barns or garages and restoring 20 or 30 years from now. | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
I like it. It's saved my ass a few times on the streets. It can be turned off for track use. One thing I wonder about is how all these sensors will hold up 5 or 10 years down the road. Might be a night mare. | ||
| 46champ |
Wonder how it will hold up. Might be a night mare. Well lets see we have a transportation device that for the most part is open to the weather and we are going to wonder how corrosion will effect the long term drivability of the product. Well that is easy in 20 years we will have problems, glitches in the systems, intermittent failures that will be caused by something as simple as corrosion under a ground wire. It will be a productive economic viable time if you are a mechanic that likes being a tron chaser. | ||
| Classax |
In terms of power all the 2015s bikes that will appear in WSBk best the EBR in power, but the reality for me is, I haven't found myself looking for more power on this bike anywhere on track and particularly not on the road. Coming off a corner more power is either wheel spin or traction control light when used aggressively. Top end is where its going to come into play and as I have said, there are few tracks here in the states where a club racer can really open up a literbike. I think EBR needs to advertise the fact that their bikes are technically sound instead technologically stabilized. It wouldn't hurt to mention that they were designed with a 6ft 180lbs rider in mind and not a 5'5" 1 140lbs jockey. | ||
| Dynasport |
I guess this stuff is important to some people. For me and my mortal riding skills, 150 or so HP at the rear wheel is plenty. But then like I've said before, I'm not EBR's target audience. I want a fun bike that is comfortable enough to ride long distances and has the ability to carry stuff on so I can take it on trips. The RX is not a bike for me. The SX is closer. I hope the AX hits the mark. | ||
| Classax |
One has to admit that the 1299 is taking the same tact the SuperDuke does with the extra 100cc it delivers slightly more torque and peak HP than the EBR. If its anything like the Superduke, in my mind its not worth the price increase over the RX. The RX was easier to ride fast, even with the electronic nannies on the (1290)Superduke. The Panigale R has its peak torque at 10.2K??!?! with an 11.5K redline WOW.... a Vtwin that behaves like an I4 with the power band of a 2 stroke. | ||
| Dmhines |
I bought an RX for the same reasons I bought my XB's and CR ... I like to be different and I'm a Buell Fanboy.  The only way EBR is going to be able to sell to "non Fanboys" is by winning races. I think it fairly rare for folks to switch brands. If I'm a Suzuki Guy .. I'm gonna stick with Suzuki. If I'm a BMW guy .. I'm gonna stick with BMW .. If I'm a Ducati guy .. I'm gonna stick with Ducati ... you get me point. | ||
| Hootowl |
Lots of truth there. | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
I never have been very brand loyal. I tend to mix it up a bit. Cars, trucks, motorcycles...ive had a few of all of them. Favorite car was my 70 Camaro, truck my 96 Dodge Cummins, bike my 76 RD400. The S1K comes close to the RD but I just had way too much fun on it. I thought I was done buying bikes but now I'm wanting an electric bike oh and the new H2....lol. Now having said that I have owned more Buells than any other one brand. On my 4th one. | ||
| Classax |
No brand loyalty here either, although some brands and their design philosophy just seem to agree with me. Planes Grumman, Cars Mopar, Bikes Buells, all though I've owned team green, ducatis and an ape as well. | ||
| Mjohnson |
I test rode the SX about two weeks ago. I'm getting used to the fact hat it doesn't look like the Typhon. I'm glad I waited to purchase though. LOTS of options for 2015. Interestingly enough it's not the high horsepower bikes that have by attention. I'm seriously considering the MV Agusta Dragster RR. It's a beautiful bike. I'm wainting for the local dealer to get their dragster on the showroom so I can check out the ergonomics.  (Message edited by Mjohnson on November 04, 2014) | ||
| Phelan |
Those are not your Daddy's wire wheels, that's for sure . | ||
| Classax |
http://motoroids.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/20 15-yamaha-r1-vs-Ducati-1299-panigale-vs-Ninja-H2-v s-S1000RR-vs-Aprilia-RSV4RR.jpg After comparing specs with 2015 rivals, the EBR isn't that far down from a power to weight perspective, and since the 1299 will be 1K more and the new Beamer and R1 only 1k less its starting to look like competitive from a price standpoint to. (Message edited by Classax on November 10, 2014) | ||
| Rogue4 |
1299 base will be $18k. You're thinking S model which comes with the smart Ohlins. | ||
| Classax |
Two different dealers in my area confirmed $ 19295 msrp on the 1299 and the S at $24,995, the R which is the one you could actually race somewhere will be $33995. I'm sure it will be a fun ride, but the Panigale SUCKS to live with everyday. Engine heat is insane. | ||
| Rogue4 |
My fault. I couldn't remember if it was $18k or $19k. Your dealers are a little high. I just looked it up and it's supposed to be $18995. In your original post you were comparing the $25k S model which didn't seem like a fair comparison if you're looking at it from an economic stand point. | ||
| Classax |
Holy fine print batman  H2R disclaimers Exhaust Sound: 
The exhaust sound level of the H2R at the time of factory shipment is 120 dB/A using Auto Cycle Union (ACU) guidelines. It is the owner’s responsibility to confirm that noise regulations of closed courses permit vehicles reaching this level of exhaust sound. Changes to the exhaust system may alter performance and sound level. Usage, Maintenance, and Warranty:
 As a closed-course, riding-use-only model, specific procedures must be followed when riding and maintaining the H2R: Vehicle Tires:
 Do not replace the tires on the H2R with any other brand and model than those offered as standard equipment: Front: Bridgestone, Racing Battlax V01F Soft Rear: Bridgestone, Racing Battlax V01R Medium Kawasaki does not approve Bridgestone Racing Battlax V02F & V02R tires for H2R usage. Tire Warmers:
 To prevent loss of tire grip, always use tire warmers to heat tires prior to riding the H2R. Cold tires do not provide sufficient grip and may cause loss of vehicle control and/or a crash, which could result in injury or death. Vehicle Storage:
 When storing the H2R, always use front and rear motorcycle stands that keep both tires off the ground. This will prevent tire deformation and adverse impacts on performance. Vehicle Maintenance:
 In addition to regular periodic maintenance, service inspections are required every 15 hours of engine operation above 8,000r/min (rpm). These service intervals are monitored through the vehicle’s ECU with service messages displayed on the multifunction meter. (See Owner’s Manual for additional information) Vehicle Warranty: 
The H2R is sold “As is” with no warranties, express or implied. The purchaser accepts all responsibilities concerning cost of service, maintenance and repairs. So basically "we'll build it if you buy it but if you buy it you're on your own." | ||
| Reepicheep |
Do not taunt happy fun ball.  | ||
| Oldog |
the electronics package of the new Ducatis, BMW, Kawis, Yamahas and Aprilias are certainly way more attractive to new buyers, particularly young buyers. Will the young buyers be able to afford the sizzling new swooper bikes, A young friend of mine ( was in the service at the time ) was quoted over 5k per year for insurance on an R1 Soo when these 200+ hp wunder bikes hit the market you can bet NEW YOUNG riders will have to think long and hard about the cost of the insurance... } | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
My first quote on the S1k was around $4000 but after shopping I found ins for $1300 a year, full coverage on 3 bikes. Just gotta be persistent. Oh and I'm an old guy and love the electronics. I was against them lil many until I bought a bike with them. Really grew on me. I'm glad I got the s1k when I did because the way they have it set up now you pay alot more for the electronics. The EBR is going to be the deal out of all of them. | ||
| Dmhines |
I also have 3 Bikes for $1300 a year full coverage. The RX, a 2013 Ducati Monster and a 2011 HD Sportster. $900 of that total is the RX ....  | ||
| Phlegm |
Vehicle Maintenance:
 In addition to regular periodic maintenance, service inspections are required every 15 hours of engine operation above 8,000r/min (rpm). These service intervals are monitored through the vehicle’s ECU with service messages displayed on the multifunction meter. (See Owner’s Manual for additional information) Interesting...when I looked at this on friday night, it said that a bottom end rebuild was necessary every 30 hrs LOL. It seems to have changed from that to inspections every 15 hours. | ||
| Ljm |
Holy $hit! The only people that will be buying these things and riding them will be people with their own mechanic on staff. One track day, a rebuild. | ||
| Firstbuell |
the H2R is a track bike, much like any Yamaha TD/TZ twin or Buell XBRR only a bazillion times more speedy! the factory designs & assembles it for you - once delivered, you disassemble, build up, & maintain on your own..... | ||
| Sprintst |
Well say what you like about electronics, but it's not like the EBR doesn't have computers, doesn't have electronics. So, if you think having electronics is a weak link, everything today has a weak link Granted, more systems = more complexity = harder repair my local independent shop won't touch BMW S1000RR's, since he won't invest the thousands into the computer tools needed | ||
| Bads1 |
my local independent shop won't touch BMW S1000RR's, since he won't invest the thousands into the computer tools needed In due time he won't have a choice or go out of business | ||
| Sprintst |
In due time he won't have a choice or go out of business I believe the auto repair places had a similar shakeout before the equipment cost went down} (Message edited by sprintst on November 14, 2014) |
