| Author | Message | ||
     Grndskpr |
It amazes me, every day to come here and read the things i read, and while i think that court and Anon are corect, you make it sound like its the Buell owners fault time and time again, you in no way help correct the situation, instead you make the person who made it feel foolish, did it ever ocour to you that his dealer told him that, or maybe some past experience lead him to that conclution, since neither of you two have enuff skill to make an atempt to figure out where the proble has come from, then i will do it, and maybe the factory can help the poorly informed dealers fix there act, while the information may be inacurate, both of your delivery suck, and you are in no way helping to fix the problem, may be you could try this: Hey Kausette, who told you you could not change your oil, or maybe a better question would be, why do you think you warrenty is invalid??? Its really not that had, some times you should try to not blame it on the owner and maybe find out where the info came from, neither post atempted to do that ROger | ||
| Court |
Roger: Never, in 18 years of helping Buell owners, have I made a Buell owner feel foolish. Many I know were foolish long before I met them. In fact, that's largely the basis for the bond. Your diatribe succeeds on one point and that is, with regard to the dealer situation, Buell is kinda where they were on reliability three years ago, in the "fake it till you make it" mode. Frankly, I'd bet by now Ken has read his warranty and has a better feel for what does and does not void a warranty. It's fairly clear. Thanks for telling me I suck; why do I assume....ah...never mind. I'll bet life sucks, eh? Hey...the internet us fun! | ||
| Grndskpr |
While i dont think you suck, and my life is actually pretty good, just a bit cold at this time, i mean the S3 is running pretty good, and the RS only needs brakes so i really can not complain, but as usual, if your not part of the solution, well, your part of the problem, and maybe if the big picture is taken into acount, there could be some training or clarification given, to assist the dealer in his/her ability to sell and service product, oh well, no sence in asking the questions, and actually fixing the problem later Roger | ||
| Blake |
Roger, Dang man! You'll have to point out to me where Court made it out to be the owner's fault. What I read is that Court simply refuted what the owner had been told by his dealer. And as I see it, the situation is now 100% corrected. The misinformed owner now better understands his true warranty situation and will be able to call the ignorant/dishonest dealership employee on the carpet about it and thus the ignorant dealership employee will be properly educated. It seems to me that approach is a valid one aimed toward solving this particular warranty misinformation problem most expeditiously. Do you trust what a dealership informs you is or is not covered by warranty, or do you educate yourself on said warranty? Unfortunately, we live in a world of "buyer-beware". Some dealers are simply inept or ignorant or even dishonest. The only viable solution to that problem that I see is for customers to educate themselves on their warranty rights. What exactly would you have posted differently in reply to Kaudette's erroneous assertion that "with the new 2 year warranty on the XB's, you have to bring them in for the oil changes and checkup or warranty is invalid"? Totally uncool attacking the motivations of Court, a man who has done more to aid and assist Buell owners than anyone else I know. What is your motivation for such a personal atack? You are helping to address the problem?  Dang man, read what you write, cause I partially agree with it... if you aren't helping to solve the problem, you are part of the problem. | ||
| Court |
My motivations elude most folks....why, they ask, do you go to considerable personal expense and get so passionatley involved in trying to help Buell owners and sending shit (often time without even charging folks for things like heads, wheels and U.S. spec rear pulleys) all over the world? I do it for the same reason Aaron races....I like it. I don't need anyone to "like" me, I've made more great frineds (was on the phone with Woz for an hour this morning) than any person should have in a lifetime. I do not depend on internet acceptance for my happiness at 50 years old. There are, dear freinds, among any population of people a virtual Phillips curve of folks that range from happy to miserable. A subset, about 3SD to the left of mean is that group who no matter what joy, nor how smooth the sailing are in the "grouch mode". They impact me, in these days as I enter the sunset of my years, about like physics discussion does a 2 month old child. I'm not ignoring the fact that Roger may just be among the folks who don't like me either. I've met roughly 3,500 Buell owners in the last 18 years. I'm a student of mathematics and am willing to accept the fact that some people simply don't care for me. Hell, there are times I don't like me.  I suspect it has lots more to do with the snafu over a screwed up order by a Chicago-land dealer about a year or so ago. I'm busy raking leaves or I'd dwell on it and dig for a solution. Grouchs go away on their own, my leaves won't. Court | ||
| Firemanjim |
Raking leaves,where ,pray tell,off the balcony???? BTW,what color is the dog these days?? | ||
| Cj_xb |
and sending shit I certainly appreciated my Lightning stickers, key chain and other little Buell goodies !!! CJ  | ||
| Court |
Balcony ? Yeah right....the "balcony" on the back of the house is about 50 feet over the back yard. I don't even screw with it. I did the front and the drive. Good thing about being on a hill is that once I get those babies in the street.....well, okay I placed 9-55G bags next to the curb. Don't ask about the dog...it's a touchy subject. Vick got home late on Halloween and...well, I didn't mean for him to look like a Bronx hooker, but the lip gloss and the skirt kinda missed the transgender "the poodle side of me" theme I was shooting for. Anyway...like I said still kinda touchy. The lip gloss lead to all sorts of "where'd you get it?" and "how'd you decide what shade went with a Lab's fur?" interrogation. I am a victim! Fireman, eh???....just sit around all day....sleep...eat...go Landspeed racing....repeat. Hey wait? Did you guys just deal with record fires? EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKK! | ||
| Grndskpr |
First off i dont belive i am attacking anyone, i just happen to see this more and more on this web site, i made the false assumption that this particluar thread was for the factory, and since it has been stated time and time again, that the factory people dont post on this site, asking the proper question so the factory can fix them would be more apropriate than asking a buyer to fix them, see if 1 buyer calls out a dealer, than maybe he will get his problem resolved, but what happens to the individuals that are not here, what do they do, now if the factory steps in and explains to the ofending dealer that his practices are off, than maybe you will find more happy Buell owners out there, so again i think i would have ask: Where did you get this information from? (i belive i typed this in one of my last posts incase you missed it) to determine for a fact that the dealer told Ken this or if it came from a past experience, and then find out if Ken actually has a manual, no one up to know has even considered if Ken has a manual in his posetion, thus it could be that the problem is not %100 corected as of yet What exactly would you have posted differently in reply to Kaudette's erroneous assertion that "with the new 2 year warranty on the XB's, you have to bring them in for the oil changes and checkup or warranty is invalid"? Lets try this again, i would have ask where this information came from, since i dont have a copy of the warranty in front of me, i can only assume Court is correct, but i have seen in the past, that a dealer can invalidate a warranty if proof of oil changes is not shown, maybe, you could mention that saving recipts can be an important aspect of the warranty, IE, keep all you oil and oil filter recipts in some kind of book, so that if asked, you can prove you did them at the proper interval, in case some thing does go wrong, ask Bomber what happens if you dont belive me, sometime a little information goes a long way in helpping someone have a better experience, and isnt this what its all about, imporving others with a little education and geting to the root of the problem??? Totally uncool attacking the motivations of Court, a man who has done more to aid and assist Buell owners than Dont belive i atacked his motivation, just maybe how it was handled, and how to fix the situation without pointing at the owner As far as liking or disliking anyone, i really dont think that is part of the discution, sorry but i dont really know anyone here well enuff to make that call, except a few, and as far as being grouchy, thats to funny, my comments were not ment to ofend, and really dont see why they would, but you take them as you see them i guess I'm busy raking leaves Always wondered why anyone would do that?? I suspect it has lots more to do with the snafu over a screwed up order by a Chicago-land dealer about a year or so ago. See, another assumption, pointing to a dealer, when it has yet to be proven if it was them or Buell, never did find out, and in reality dont realy care, same dealer has gotten me parts after that, funny thing is, when several parts have to beordered from the OEM, it got here as fast as the parts that came from Buell, maybe i got lucky, plus i have never let myself get in a situation where i need parts to ride, plus mistakes happen, if you can't handle them, then your way to wound up Read it as you will, but really no ofence was ment enjoy you leaves, snow or cactus later Roger | ||
| Anonymous |
Roger, I give Kaudette and other posters here credit for being smart enough to use my posting to their advantage. See I'm betting Kaudette will now walk into his dealer and say "Show me in my warranty statement (in my owner's manual) where it says I have to bring them in for the oil changes and checkup or warranty is invalid", thereby stopping his dealer from trying to take advantage of his former ignorance of the situation. My post hopefully caused Kaudette (And other readers) to read his warranty statement and gain a greater understanding of what is real and factual, rather than take the word of the uninformed. My post did NOT, as you state, seek to make anyone feel ignorant. I could have just as easily said, "That is Bullshit Kaudette!, you are wrong about your warranty.", but what useful purpose would that have served? See Roger, there was a solution in there, you were just too blinded by your beliefs to see it. Now throw this into the mix Roger. Kaudette is from France, and I really have no idea if the dealer has the authority to enforce such a claim in France, and I'd bet you don't either. Now that Kaudette is armed with facts from his owners manual, HE can evaluate his chances of making this argument to his dealer. The laws and rules in France may in fact be such that having the bike serviced at and authorized dealer are a requirement for future warranty consideration. Rather than come off with a bold statement based on what I THINK is the case, I chose to educate or steer Kaudette to the facts. I hope you understand Roger, sometimes the best way to help people, is to help them help themselves. | ||
| S2pengy |
As far as Court is conserned I owe him a great deal.. He worked wonders for me in a couple of problems that I doubt I could ever repay... He did it on his own time and at his own expense.... If not for Court a LOT of questions on this and other forms would go unanswered... Do not get down on the man that steps up to the plate and answerers questions just cause you don't like the answer or manner it was given..... Try to get answers to questions like these from HD let alone parts help.... Want to spend your weekend looking up part numbers for someone you never even met???? | ||
| Reepicheep |
I had a friend tell me that when he lived in England, the dealer had to do ALL work (including oil changes) for the warranty to be valid on a car. This is second hand info, from a long time ago, so ymmv. You should see what TUV does to those poor German Buellers! | ||
| Shotgun |
"They impact me, in these days as I enter the sunset of my years, about like physics discussion does a 2 month old child." Sunset my ass. 50 is the beginning of the prime of your life. 1. Kids out of school and college paid off (hopefully). 2. Significant other gainfully employed. 3. Able to choose alternate career path if desired. 4. Blame all purchases of motorcyles or sportscars on "midlife crisis". 5. Living for the moment gets easier and easier. Enjoy. | ||
| Grndskpr |
I hope you understand Roger, sometimes the best way to help people, is to help them help themselves While this makes some sence, what about educating the dealer, so that future customers will not have to deal with a mis informed sales person or manager, what about educating the dealer, so that future purchasers of a buell product will not have to deal with such improper statements, while Ken may be able to solve his problem, what happens to the others who are not on the web or do not know about this site, is it more important to help an individual or improve a dealer so that future purchasers will have a better experience??? Now if the factory improves a dealer and his or her knowledge of the warranty, wont that imrove sales and improve the company over all??? Again you are correct in that most should help themselves, but shouldnt the factory atempt to improve the dealerships, and how they sell there bikes??Isnt a stronger company benifit everyone?? Again this is not ment to offend anyone, but i belive a stronger dealer network, and properly informed dealers will lead to a stronger ability to sell product and potentially more customers, making for a stronger company, with higher profit margins and more cash flow to create new inovative bikes, again i thought this thread was for the factory, and improving a dealers knowledge does nothing but improve the companies ability to sell bikes this is of course my opinion, but i feel strongly that a better dealer experience will lead to more bikes sold and customer retention later Roger | ||
| Court |
>>>but i belive a stronger dealer network, and properly informed dealers will lead to a stronger ability to sell product and potentially more customers, making for a stronger company, with higher profit margins and more cash flow to create new inovative bikes You are absolutely correct. Watch for coming signs of improvement. | ||
| Mikej |
"A subset, about 3SD to the left of mean " Please don't talk about standard deviations. I'm having a hard enough time as it is in the class I'm taking, the instructor speaks a blend of three languages (Chinese, French, English) which makes it nearly impossible to understand what he is saying ("Happy-est" vs "hypothesis test" for example). Thank you. Anony, You might want to have someone read through the owner's manuals. According to a post from PaulinOz, apparently the owner's manual tells the owner to ride on the wrong side of the roadway.  . Thanks. | ||
| Court |
Mikej: Excellent point....READ your owner's manual! The guys in tech pubs do a marvelous job of ding, quite frankly, the best they can. Typical process TRIES to get the manual from tech pubs back to the design engineers, homologation folks (the source of Paul's problem) and other invovled members of the team. I bought the service manual prior to buying my first Harley in 1987 and read it cover to cover, finding about 6 snafu's. There is a form in the back for reporting them., be sure to. Court | ||
| Mikej |
Yep, in the past I've had first hand experience of trying to give the tech pubs folks images they wanted while at the same time making changes to the design of the parts trying to get model files over to prototype shops to build working models of the latest changes so the marketing folks can have a touchy-feely meeting with what a final product may or may not end up looking like. What one sees in print is not always what is or what was. I'm thinking Paul should clip his owner's manual to the windscreen of his bike open to the page in question and snap a photo of it while riding down his wrong side of the road towards an approaching truck flashing it's lights. A photo like that would probably end up on someone's cubicle wall. General rule of thumb: if it's in print it is often best to consider it a suggestion rather than a fact. Works for torque specs too (is that inch/lbs, ft/lbs, or neuton meters please? and where exactly is that decimal point supposed to be? and I don't really believe this 3/8" bolt shank can withstand 120ft/lbs of torque on my pickemup truck.). As always, YMMV. | ||
| Court |
One of the better Buell stories was the day the guy called me to tell me the dealer had stolen a part off his Buell. I, of course, was skeptical and it wasn't until talking to him for a while did I realize the error on the cover of the catalog for that year. Sure enough, in the scurry and hurry, there was a MAJOR snafu. Remind me to tell you about it sometime..... Court (P.S. - I sent him the pictured piece even though it was not part of his bike, as a reward for being the only one to discover the error) | ||
| Tripper |
Watch for coming signs of improvement. there it is again. you tease me.... | ||
| Sarodude |
Court- Funny you mention a dealer stealing stuff off someone's Buell... Some dealer employee swapped the mirrors on my Blast with some seriously scratched up ones. The reason I initially noticed was that they were loose as I left the stealership. Buell - Thanks for getting the bikes right. Now if you could only fix human nature... -Saro | ||
| Grndskpr |
Want to spend your weekend looking up part numbers for someone you never even met???? Another good example of how to improve the dealer network or what could Buell do to improve this situation, while i am sure Court does not mind looking up parts, i really belive it is not his job(this is not to say that he will not or does not like it) however how do we recomend a fix for this situation, an example i would look toward is Kawasaki(this in no way makes them better bike or makes me a Buell hater and a Kawi lover) but there web site has a nice way to look up parts, you can page through several different models and find the parts you need, now while i am sure this is not the first time this has been mentioned maybe it should be revisited, that way individuals could look up there own parts, and Buell could keep them updated and correct or update parts as they need, this would help someone looking for parts, and maybe even help the dealers, you can sell more parts if you dont have to look them up for someone, plus less time at the counter means you can help more people, and make more money, again sometimes looking at the big picture and reading can help the overall landscape Now here is a question, if there was to be a class at P.O.T., that was directed toward Buell riders, what would it be?? You need to take into account liability(hence no riding classes) and the overall training involved, is there something the officers of Brag would like to have on the agenda to help them and there chapters?? This question was asked of me last year, and all the answers i could come up with were, well, just way to wrong for the training class and individuals there, so what would you do differently, what would you like to learn about, again dont get me wrong, the classes were great, most had a harley spin(but after all it is a harley calss, so you can not blame theme for that) but if you could what would you like to see?? i have yet to come up with something, and i belive feedback would be appreciated and maybe even considered for future events something to think about later Roger | ||
| Court |
Roger: As one of the first 10 members of www.buykawasaki.com, I concur....that is the cat's meow! Buell is having to deal with some unique obstalces that include orgnaizational momentum, N.I.H. mindset, "how we've alwasy done it" and then they get to the logistical part. The first hurdle, knowing you need to do it, they have been helped over by owners. The biggest thing you, and we, can do to help at this stage is to report factually and concisely our needs. I'm a huge fan of gettting lots (you gotta LOVE the Ducati website with every manual they print right there in .pdf format) of infomration on line. It should make a huge difference. Do NOT think for a moment that Buell is not aware of this, as evidenced by a video I am in possession of and the S-1 that I rode onto the stage with Bill Gates in San Francisco. Buel lholds more cards than they show. In fact, when I was in East Troy we devised a bit of a stop gap "Buell Hotline" with a knowledgable person armed with a plethora of information and the ability to get more fast. One step at a time. Reliability came first, diminish the NEED for parts. The "food chain" of parts and service is next. I expect equally impressive results based on the talents and conviction of those steering. Court | ||
| Grndskpr |
One step at a time. Reliability came first, diminish the NEED for parts. While this may be true for current models, i think tube frame owners would still like to see something like the Ducati/Kawi web sites, while fewer parts may be needed now and in the future, its hard to prevent people from causing there own damage, and or looking to repair damage from age, again this was just a thought, and would save me from buying a parts manual for work to be done this winter, like i said just some thing to consider, again i am sure they are aware of the sites, i personally would just like to see them make an atempt at there own later ROger | ||
| Bomber |
on-line documentation is such a great idea, it SHOULD be obvious (the expense of posting, and the lost revenue from loss of manual sales has, historically, been recovered through great sales of parts, lessened customer support costs, and the elimination of partnumberchange caused misorders) . . .I've put this into place in several businesses, and there is no downside at all . . .. . as an ex-tech pubs wonk, putting together parts books is mind-numbing in the extreme when you first start, and becomes only less satisfying when you realize you are publishing a work that is guarenteed to be wrong (due to p/n changes) before it hits the streets . . . . . online is the only way to go (especially given the degree to which the Buell owner community seems to be wired) | ||
| Nevco1 |
Bomber...Now you got me thinking. Revenue could be obtained through either membership in HOG/BRAG or on a Subscription Basis. I think the latter would be better. WOW...An online service manual. That would be fantastic!!! | ||
| Evaddave |
And an on-line customer support system would be nice, too. Shortly after I got my Blast, I discovered an error on the site. I looked and looked for an email address, and once I finally found one to email, I got a response back saying that they don't read or respond to emails. Not exactly stellar customer service--and I was trying to do them a favor! | ||
| Grndskpr |
Revenue could be obtained through either membership in HOG/BRAG or on a Subscription Basis. I think the latter would be better. Why charge a sub, the money generated in savings would cover the cost of the web site, plus, as in Kawi's site, you are required to register, making a mailing list, one you dont have to pay for, plus you would create an online mailing list saving you postage in the future Again as bomber has stated, win win situation later Roger | ||
| Mikej |
"I think the latter would be better. " I think not, current BRAG membership, expired HOG membership, had both for a bit, can't get onto HOG's site due to them thinking I'm still expired even though my BRAG currentness is supposed to gain me access. If they fix that little snafu maybe, but until then no. | ||
| Grndskpr |
Mike, just so you know, the hog web site is set up for hog members, Brag members do not have the ability to log on, and will not until around 2005, there has been some miscomunication on this subject, but i assure you, it was not done on purpose, and they are working on it, i wish however that they would work faster, i really have no interest in mailing in forms, when it would be much less time consuming to just take care of member ship rosters online, but like i said they are working on it, and i am sure will have it done when they have it done Roger |
