| Author | Message | ||
     Tork  |
The Double Bubble melting syndrome finally happened to me and I wrote Zero Gravity about it to see if they were aware of the problem and to see what their response would be. Here's their reply: Thank you for bringing this issue to our attention. This is the first we have heard of the melting dash situation for the Buell XB9/12R's. The melting dash problem first came to our attention with the 2000 Honda RC-51 and CBR954RR's. Most subsequent complaints concerned these two models. It was thought that the sun, shining through the screen, was magnifying the sun's rays causing the dash to melt. We tried to replicate the phenomenon but were unsuccessful. It took us awhile but I think we have figured out the problem. The answer came from the website of a guy in England who experimented with a double bubble style windscreen (not a ZG by the way). Pictures on his site showed him holding the screen in his hands with the curvature facing the ground and the sun's rays reflecting off the underside of the screen onto a pile of leaves. Sure enough, the leaves caught fire. Obviously this is an extreme situation in which the experimenter deliberately faced the screen into the sun in such a way as to ignite a highly combustible material and is not your normal situation. And the screen he used had a metalized coating that appears to have enhanced the reflective quality of the screen's surface. But this experiment seemed to support the idea that the melting dash came from rays reflected from the underside of the screen and not from the sun shining through it. Further support of this came from our customers who reported, as did some of the contributors to your forum, that the melting occurred even with dark smoke screens. And since the dark smoke plastic is only about 5% light transmittant, it's unlikely that heat could be generated by light shining through it. One of your forum contributors, Al Lighton, got it right in his posting of May 17, 2004 11:02 pm. He stated: "...But one caution: IF you get the sun shining from straight behind the bike, it can behave as a parabola and focus the light onto the dash panel and melt your dash. I've heard that some other sportbikes can have this happen THRU the windshield and onto the dash, but I don't think that is an issue on the bolt. It's not common, but at least one customer has had it occur. It takes a low sun on a clear hot day condition for it to occur. I've not heard of this occurring with the stock or +3" profile ZG screens." The root of the problem seems not so much the screen as the plastic used to make the dashboards. It appears that the OEM's used a plastic that melts at a very low temperature. One of our customers reported that Honda told him they would not cover the dash under warrantee if any chrome parts were mounted on the handlebars or anywhere near the instrument panel. They claimed that the sun, shining off the chrome part, could melt the dash. Once Honda recognized the problem they must have changed the type of plastic used for their instruments because we have not heard of any problems with the current models. Unfortunately Buell may not have gotten the message yet. Anyway, we recognized the problem several years ago and immediately added a warning to our packaging regarding melting dashboards and recommended covering your dash if you leave your bike in the sun for any length of time. I'm not so sure that painting the underside of the screen will help unless you use the type of paint that will not reflect much light. Probably the easiest thing would be to carry a small towel in your tank bag and roll it up and stuff it under the screen to cover the dash when you park the bike. And it's a good idea not to park the bike with the sun behind the screen. Hopefully Buell will recognize the problem and re-engineer the dash panel properly. Thanks again for your email and for turning us on to your forum. Best regards, ZG | ||
| Koz5150  |
So what did you think of their response, just curious... | ||
| Blake |
Trying to pan off a design problem with their product on someone else. | ||
| Koz5150 |
I was curious because I don't se it as a design problem. If you make any type of curved glass/plexi it is going to cause the sun's rays to be reflected in an irregular pattern. If the same problem happened with a stock Buell windshield then it would be a manufacture's problem, but since the owner of the bike is adding a non standard part on I don't think the manufacturer should be held responsible. After saying that, it would be nice if the gauge face was glass and not plastic anyway. | ||
| Ingemar |
What Blake said. | ||
| P0p0k0pf |
I think they know that their response will satisfy most people and avoid an issue, but I can't see it holding up in a lawsuit... | ||
| Wyckedflesh  |
Gee...I wish the packaging MY double bubble came with had the warning sticker. I also think its interesting that "This is the first we have heard of the melting dash situation for the Buell XB9/12R's." was later followed with "Further support of this came from our customers who reported, as did some of the contributors to your forum...One of your forum contributors, Al Lighton, got it right in his posting of May 17, 2004 11:02 pm. He stated" Which makes me curious as to how they got/found the discussions unless that is proof that there are aftermarket companies paying attention to what the Buell customer base is looking for and trying to meet the desires. | ||
| Glitch  |
I'm with Blake. Unless, there is a warning that comes with shield. I also was thinking the same as Wycked. I wonder if they realize the customer potential they have if they actually do something to prevent this, and make the melted dash board owners happy. | ||
| Reepicheep  |
An irregular pattern is NOT the problem. An overly regular pattern is. Just make sure your shape does not concentrate any transmissions / reflections into a point anywhere within a couple feet of the the screen. You know, like at design time. If it's hot enough to ignite leaves, it's too hot. (Message edited by reepicheep on January 26, 2005) | ||
| Glitch |
An irregular pattern is NOT the problem. An overly regular pattern is. I guess optically correct would not be the best way to go? Maybe some tests with different curves is in order. Or perhaps some sort of non-reflective coating. I wonder if they're worried enough about it to do anything other than lip service. | ||
| Al_lighton  |
Back about the time I posted that, I let ZG know about the issue. They indicated to me that's why they have the text on the plastic wrapping the windshield comes in. But I never told them about the posting, they found that on their own. I try to mention this when customers call about the shield. I thought I'd put the info on the product page on the web site, but I just looked and it isn't there....Hmm, will have to correct that. I had some data loss on my site a while back, I think that may have been one of the casualties. It isn't that big a deal if you are aware of it. The sun has to be low in the sky and the sky clear, coming right up the back of the bike. If the DB was the profile I really wanted from a wind protection and aesthetic POV, I wouldn't let it keep me from getting one. That said, I think the +3 ST screen is a better choice for the Firebolt in terms of wind protection. Al | ||
| Djkaplan  |
The problem is not just limited to the models mentioned. A friend of mine with a 2002 Suzuki Katana 750 had the same problem when he mounted a Double Bubble - his dash melted. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Trying to pan off a design problem with their product on someone else. Agree with Blake. It doesn't happen with the stock screen correct? If that's the case then this is their problem, not Buell's, Honda's, etc. It's a problem with the shape they use on the DB. Also, if this has been known about for some time then they really need to go back to the drawing board and fix it rather than panning this off on the manufacture to use better materials when in fact they don't have a problem in the first place. | ||
| M1combat  |
I've got three or four melted places at the top of my dash. I posted here long ago that it occurs generally when the bike is facing west in the morning. I agree with Blake... It's a ZG issue. I think that placing a rag over the dash is the WRONG decision. I'm pretty sure that a rag will have a much lower kindling point than the dash does... In any case, don't point your bike west when you park it outside for the night and all is fine. This is a serious issue though. My dash actually has a hole in it right in the center above the lens. I have to take special care when washing the bike so as not to allow water to get into my dash module. As a side note, my local dealer was willing to replace the unit. Quite frankly though, I'll keep it until I accidentally get too much water in it and it fails. Then I'll be calling ZG. MY plastic bag mentions nothing about this (purchased from Daves around late Nov/03). | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
It doesn't have to be low in the sky, but the clear day definately helps. Mine started showing up recently when the bike sat in the parkinglot at work. When the first marks started showing I was working from 11-3 for "training". Don, JBplastic weld can be used to fill in the hole easily. | ||
| Tucsonxb9s  |
I avoided the issue completety...I bought an S!  | ||
| M1combat |
Yeah... And I've got some laying around... I'll have to just sand it down to it's original shape, fill it in and then paint it. | ||
| Chainsaw  |
How long till ZG adds $20 to the price and markets the DB as an Emergency Fire Starting device?  | ||
| Fatpony |
I'd heard about the melting prob a year or so ago on a Busa BBS so thought it might be something that was up with ZG in general. But since have seen a couple of R51's with melted dash comp. that have stock (looking)shields. I just keep a white washcloth under the seat of my Busa and XB to put on the dash if I have to park outside. Maybe the cloth will go up in flames, but no trouble with either one for the past 1-2 years down here in the FL sun. |
