| Author | Message | ||
     Sandblast |
What did you use? How much did it cost? What are the improvements? | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Anybody tried different discs, like EBC? The early discs were cast iron I think, do they stop any better? lemonchili | ||
| Firemanjim |
I have used several different pads,EBC,Ferrodo,etc with good results and had a EBC rotor from Tat at American Sport Bike on for awhile,it worked better than stock one. I also have the stock S-2 dual disc set,but have not taken it out of the wrapper.Ended up with a dual disc ISR 6 piston set-up from Cap,looks sexy as hell and stops nice. Dusty from Custom Chrome had the wave rotors front and back on his X-1 and liked them. Dana from DKF Performance has a dual Brembo set-up on his X-1 and they are real nice, also. | ||
| Blake |
Yes, I like the EBC steel rotor with stock brake pads. Yes, I think the iron or steel provide better stopping than the '00 Cyclone with its stainless steel rotor. You might want to use the pads from the '97 Cyclone though, as they may be formulated to work better with the iron/steel disks. I am not sure if the '97 pads will physically fit later models though. Check to be sure. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Thanks guys  I find the X1 needs quite a bit of effort at the lever to really stop. My old GSXR had standard discs and calipers and I ran SBS sintered pads, I think the pads were called "Excel"... anyway, I never used more than two fingers to stop from any speed and they were really easy to modulate, and got better as they got hotter. Most other newer bikes I've ridden (not many) seem similar, whether single or twin disc. The X1 on the other hand needs at least three fingers and a bit of muscle, relatively, to really slow it down... but I like how it turns so quick and I guess some of that is to do with less weight from one disc. I might try some different pads, EBC or SBS, and keep an eye out for an EBC or early model rotor. It is all relative - I met a guy on an old drum brake Triumph last weekend, and he was telling me how he did this amazing stoppie, by accident, on a borrowed Honda CBR250... cheers, lemonchili PS Jim, 61 tooth pulley is great, I'm on the hunt for a 27 tooth front pulley - I feel the need, the need for... | ||
| Al_lighton |
If you want to just try pads for increasing your stopping, try Lyndall Racing Brake Pads. We've got them for all the different Buell calipers (though the rear Nissin pads used on the 98-05 Buells) aren't on the web site yet. Money back guarantee from Lyndall if they aren't the best pads you've used. I've got them on my S1W and they are VERY good. Customers that have bought them once always buy them again. A bit pricey, though. Slightly down in cost, but also very good, are the CP911 race compound semi-metallic pads from Ferodo...you WILL notice the difference. The various sintered compound (full metallic) pads we've got will defnitely give you more bite, but may not offer as progressive a feel as the race compounds above do (but they last a LONG time). Note that for most bikes, race compounds are only recommended for track use or aggressive street riding as they need greater heat to work their best. However, the heat saturation on the Buell single disc rotor allows race compounds to be used on the street more effectively than on other bikes (this is what Jeff at Brake tech tells me, and he knows brakes...) Blake, The pre-98 PM calipers use different pads than the 98+ Nissins. The PM pads have 2 retaining pins, the Nissins, one. Nothing wrong with the stock pads, but for the money, you can do better in the aftermarket. EBC carbon/kevlar (EBC Black) pads are amazingly cheap and will outperform the stock pads. Similarly, the non-racing compound Platinum series Ferodo's are very good and won't empty your wallet. The Dual disc Brembo setups are nice, we've got them. They are complete, and at $1295 are a lot less expensive than the >$1900 they used to be. Myself, I'd just assume have a single disc and less mass up front. But then again, I don't look for brake markers coming into street corners... Also have the dual opposing pot Brembo rear setup (not to be confused with the brembo single caliper rear used on 95-97 Buells). The single pot Buell rear calipers are so weak, I guarantee you'll notice a huge difference with these. My wife's SV has a similar rear caliper, and I find it a little too easy to lock up the rear. But we don't have digital feet/muscles, it only stops as hard as YOU command it to. If you want to replace the single front disc, we've got the last 2 Ferodo Black Lightning rotors in stock. It is the best replacement single rotor out there, but it has been discontinued. The ductile iron rotor is sliced from billet, not stamped from sheet. When these two are gone (one with a black carrier, one with a gold carrier), no more are available  . The EBC rotor is nice and is readily available. Better friction coefficient than the stock stainless rotors. The Braking Wave rotors are also available. Not sure if they have higher friction coefficients, but they claim to be able to dissiate more heat. Brakes are nothing more than kinetic-to-heat energy converters, so anything that improves dissipation should improve brake fade issues if that's the issue you're trying to address. They sure look trick! It is not recommended to use the sintered pads on the ductile iron discs. But the sintereds are fined on the stainless rotors. Al (Message edited by al_lighton on August 22, 2004) | ||
| Edmanning |
I upgraded my 97M2 to the stainless rotor and added the ferodo 911s and gained stopping power. You will really need to add some Race tech 1.0 or similar front fork springs to take advantage of the modification though. Ed "Hillbilly" Manning | ||
| Blake |
The EBC green kevlar race pads worked real well, but they absolutely devoured the rotor and also wore terribly unevenly. I really like the stock pads, even at the track. I may take your advice and try the EBC black though, just cause I trust you in all things.  | ||
| Al_lighton |
Blake, Try the Lyndalls. Serious grip, and I haven't noticed them being all that hard on my 2000 spec rotor on my S1W. They don't seem to leave as many deposits on the disc as the stock pads have on my S3 with the same 2000 spec rotor. | ||
| Blake |
I was under the impression that iron/steel rotors needed to have pads designed to work with them. I could easily be mistaken. | ||
| Bluelightning |
Al, by "2000 spec rotor" you are meaning a 2000 Buell rotor, correct? I might have to try the Lyndall's on my X-1 then. What's the cost on a set? Karl | ||
| Al_lighton |
Blake, According to the guys that know, the OEM pads for the older PM calipers used Ferodo CP901 equivalent compound. That is Ferodo's older generation organic (semi-metallic) race compound (their current generation stuff is CP911 compound). The OEM pads for the 98+ Nissin calipers on the stainless rotors are not the same compound as the OEM pre-98 PM caliper pads, and Jeff at Braketech said the Nissin OEM pads are sintered. Since I've never personally run the pre-98 pads for the PM calipers (as both of my own pre-American Sport Bike Buells are a 98 and a 99), I can't speak to them, but I suspect you're right in saying that they are very good. Jeff said the EBC Green had a rubber friction modifier that tended to heat-check the disc in hard use conditions. That would jive well with your story of excessive disc wear on track days. I don't have the EBC blacks for the 6 pot PM calipers, and I don't have the EBC Greens for the Nissin 6 pot. Similarly, I don't have the Ferodo Platinums organic (semi-metallic)for the 6 pot PMs. You're probably be better staying with the OEMs than the EBC greens. But you'd be better yet with the Ferodo CP911 or Lyndalls, both of which are not sintered, which is what you want for an iron disc. The 2000 spec stainless rotor I referred to is the OEM disc. Nothing wrong with that disc with either sintereds or the organics. Probably gets higher friction coefficients with sintereds, at the expense of progressive feel. But the Lyndall's are like the best of both worlds....serious stopping power, great feel. I haven't personally run the CP911 Ferodo's, I suspect they may be similar. But I have run the Lyndalls, and I do like them. There is a lot of good info at the Brake-Tech site at http://www.braketech.com/tech.html in the tech-talk and FAQ pages. All here for PM calipers: http://www.americansportbike.com/shop/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?usr=51F7569687&rnd=6783 97&rrc=N&affl=&cip=69.105.129.79&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=5111&cat=&catstr= And here for Nissins: http://www.americansportbike.com/shop/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?usr=51F7569687&rnd=8696 392&rrc=N&affl=&cip=69.105.129.79&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=5430&cat=&catstr= | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Al, you rock! Thanks for the info. | ||
| Blake |
Thanks Al. That's a gem of a brake pad post. Since I'm very happy with the OEM pads and had bad luck with the EBC greens, I think for now I'll stick with what I know works. Thanks again. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Al - Great info. The Lyndalls sound impressive. If I ever sort out what I'm doing with tank accents, I might get a set at the same time. While on the topic of pads - is it possible to cook/overheat a set of pads? Could that cause the lack of bite and the high lever effort? My bike is an ex-racebike, and still has the same pads as when I bought it... | ||
| Al_lighton |
I'm not real sure of what you can do to a set of properly bedded in pads. But I know that if you don't bed them in properly, you can glaze them and they won't ever have the same bite as a set of properly bedded in pads. From the Braketech site link above: "Much like a new set of pistons and rings in a freshly bored cylinder, these moving parts need to mate to function properly. Looking at the ground surface of a new brake pad and rotor [new or used] under magnification, the surface looks like a bunch of hills and valleys. Until these parts are mated, only the peaks are making contact. If you try to use the brakes hard before they bed-in, you run the risk of over-heating and carbonizing the surface of the pad. This means performance will suffer dramatically and a glazed surface will likely result...you'll probably hear your brakes complaining via a loud annoying brake squeal. Before installing new pads, clean the brake rotors by using medium grit sandpaper on the pad track followed by wiping them down with a clean rag and acetone or denatured alcohol. Allow some time to bed-in your new brakes by following the manufacturer recommendations and you'll find they'll work much better." Maybe the pads on your bike were never bedded in right to begin with? Al | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Or they were new pads when I picked the bike up and I didn't bed them in... oops... |
