| Author | Message | ||
     Outrider |
Ahhh...The concept of Micro Knock Offs. Translation: Parts technology. Think I will leave that to the patent attorney's. I was referring to Macro Knock Offs. Translation: The MT-01 is neither a Buell nor is it intended to compete with one. Had HD manufactured the StreetFighter illustrated above, that would be more of a direct comparison to the MT-01. These bikes are more for stylin' than track oriented usage. | ||
| Spike |
Personally I think alot of you are going to be eating crow when one of those actually pulls up next to you and hands you your ••• on a silver platter. First things first, a straight line drag race is the only place where this new Yammi has a chance against an XB. Even then, it's down at least 1200rpm and probably weighs more. It'll make a good 20ft-lbs more down low, but I'd be surprised if it actually makes more horsepower up top. Even if it does manage to outrun an XB12 in a straight line, it won't be doing it by much. I'll bet they're close enough that the rider will make the difference. | ||
| Outrider |
How many years did it take the US motorcycle market to persuade Yamaha to bring the FJR1300 to the America? Have a feeling if we start whining now, we can get an MT-01 long before HDI comes up with an entry in that market segment. Bummer. Sincere Bummer. | ||
| Bomber |
ya hit that nail on the head, Outie . . . . although, on the other side of the coin (maximum metaphore mixing!), with sufficient funds and appplication of wrenches, you can turn a HDI product into darned near anything! | ||
| Outrider |
Bomber...Funny, but true! At least until the Japanese got into the market. Then HD went south and the Brits went out. Last Laugh is always the best laugh, eh? | ||
| Bomber |
oh, I dunno . . . .a gentleman of our aquiantance is n the process of aquiring a Harley that just may be able to surprise us . . . you can still turn HDs into other stuff, it just doens't make as much sense any more, now that there are companies capable, and willing, to make small numbers of bikes profitably | ||
| Outrider |
Oh my gosh Bomber...What has LawnBoy done now???  | ||
| Bomber |
I can neither confirm nor deny any conjecture at this point in time, Mr Chairman let's just say if I'd been in the market, I'd a jumped on this particular scoot as well | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Christ, he's probably at home right now sitting in the garage on the bike singing Steppenwolf's Born to be wild  | ||
| Outrider |
Yeah and picking out which HOG Chapter he wants to join. LOL | ||
| Outrider |
Just teasing...Knowing Roger, it is something worth having. Caught some of his posts about it in the last week and was wondering how long this was going to take. | ||
| Bomber |
quick trivia -- Born to be WIld was written about a vehical -- which one? | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Buick wildcat. | ||
| Kaudette |
That is close to the BT Bulldog using the old Virago motor only they upped the ante across the board - Radial Brakes, better suspension & chassis, etc - still likely too heavy and not very flickable but at least they see a market and go... And Court, regarding Erik not getting his due... well, my take is people, when considering innovation on bikes, first consider the motor, then the chassis, then the "design". On the motor, he's done a good job on the lump but nothing revolutionary. On the chassis, sure, he has the rear susp on the tubers that was original, and on the XB's he has a "radical geometry" and fuel in the frame, which is "neet", but not "revolutionary". BMW with the telelever is revolutionary, Honda, Duc, MV with the single sided swingarms fit into the neat (with Buell) category. Brakes fit into the "neet" category as well. If Erik had put a VROD derivative into the XB we would have all seen "Mastermind Erik & Bike of the 21st century" on the cover of the magazines littering private bathrooms all across the country. And as for the Honda, I still like the front end, rear single sided (neet) and 130 hp motor...  | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Not to mention that HD/Buell have done so without needing to fall back on the use of catalytic converters to meet required emissions limits. We already covered that in another topic 2 days ago | ||
| Blake |
Some of you seem bent on belittling Buell. Stuff it I say. Gas in the frame? Sorry folks but Erik didnt invent it. Perimiter brakes? Nope, once again been around for a long long time. Who's were the first and the only production factory motorcycles to implement the fuel in frame and perimeter front brake ideas? Who was the first to do so while addressing crash safety concerns by designing and implementing a break-away safety joint in the motorcycle's frame to steering head structural connection? Who's was the first production motorcycle to take advantage of the perimeter front brake configuration in facilitating a significantly reduced weight of the front wheel assembly? Who was the first to implement a perimeter front brake and tuck its disk and carrier inside the protective envelope of the front wheel rim? Who's was the first production air cooled motorcycle to utilize intelligent ducted forced air cooling? "On the motor, he's done a good job on the lump but nothing revolutionary." Right, taking what was a 60 HP engine and getting it to put out 103 HP was no big deal, just a mere 70% increase in power in ten years. Not to mention that HD/Buell have done so without needing to fall back on the use of catalytic converters to meet required emissions limits. What some call "neat" others, especially those who know engineering, call revolutionary. Reducing the front wheel weight by 7 LBs somehow surpasses "neat" in my book. Safely putting the fuel in the frame in order to better centralize mass and allow tighter turning wheelbase also surpasses "neat" in my book. It's called "innovation" and while surpassing "neat" to any engineer who knows anything, it is also damn impressive. Buell has the highest power air cooled engine on the market. Neat? Without Buell as a definitive influence that Yamaha MT would have likely NEVER come to pass, not even in prototype show bike form let alone in an actual production model. Them's the facts.  | ||
| Blake |
Yeah Dyna, I saw where you said that Buells run lean. More bullshit. The XB's run flawlessly in stock form and even the old tube framers with the latest version of the ECM firmware ran fine. Sorry to disappoint you. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Flawlessly??? LOL come on now Blake, you gotta be 5hitting me. Compare the air/fuel ratio numbers with a stock ecm to a race ecm & tell me the stock ecm isnt running lean. And gas in the frame? Dont trials bikes utilize that?  | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
production factory motorcycles to implement the fuel in frame and perimeter front brake ideas? Factory production yes, but Ghezzi & Brian have been doing it with Guzzis since 99. Now I know they arent a huge operation or anything, but still the concept is neither new nor innovative. | ||
| Dbird29 |
YamaSquid, Doesn't Yamaha make a trials bike. But there is a picture of a GasGas. You do like your Yamaha's don't you?  | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Buell has the highest power air cooled engine on the market. Neat? I think Confederate might have an argument with that statement. As do several of the HD clone manufacturers who utilize big bore S&S engines..and yes at least one of those clones make just as many bikes a year as Buell does. Dbird...I like all bikes. | ||
| Spike |
Flawlessly??? LOL come on now Blake, you gotta be 5hitting me. Compare the air/fuel ratio numbers with a stock ecm to a race ecm & tell me the stock ecm isnt running lean. Like I said last time you made that comment, you can't find a production motorcycle that wouldn't benefit from a little more fuel. The XB certainly runs better with the race ECM, but so does every other motorcycle on the planet, including your R1. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Spike...im not the one saying all bikes couldnt benefit from it..Blake is. | ||
| Spike |
Spike...im not the one saying all bikes couldnt benefit from it..Blake is. No. You said Buells run lean. Blake disagreed and said they run flawlessly. You argued that because the Buells run better with the race ECM that the stock ECM was too lean. I'm countering your argument by pointing out that all bikes run better with non-EPA compliant fuel control. The bottom line is that the XBs run great. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
The bottom line is that the XBs run great. And lean | ||
| Kaudette |
Blake, on the lump, everyone knows that the 60 horses the 1200's put out in stock form is largely due to restrictive intake and exhaust. Put a decent carb & filter + pipes and a 1200 evolution gains ~10-12 horses right there. So Buell took the 1200 from 72 to 100 - still a nice accomplishment however he did it "the old fashioned way", with better heads, lighter pistons & higher compression (+ some breathing & exhaust mods)... I'm not saying the Gixxer with titanium valves, etc is any more revolutionary than the XB plant, it is just that the XB motor is NOT revolutionary. As for the chassis: Brakes - the ZTL is neet because it does not "revolutionalize" performance & braking - radials work better and although they have a higher unsprung mass, don't seem a major detriment to handling on some of the worlds "best" bikes. Frame - good point on the front hear breakpoint - as for the gas in the frame, this is as close to revolutionary as it comes - and only because of torsional rigidity, weight, etc... Don't get me wrong, I like the bike (have owned 2 and still own the 12S). | ||
| Bomber |
Born to be WIld was composed in homage to a Ford Falcon, straight 6, slushbox -- but everyone's first motor vehical is worhty of a song, I'm thinkin! | ||
| Blake |
Radially oriented caliper connections are not exclusive to conventional front brakes. Buell could easily incorporate radial calipers on the current ZTL brake. The larger the brake disk (like that of a ZTL scheme) the less a radially oriented caliper connection will bring to the party. And really, I'd bet that on a street bike the extra weight of the radially oriented structural connection is not worth the added feel provided by the stiffer radially connected load path. On the track, where pushing the trail braking envelope is routine, brakes with better feedback are a significant advantage. The radial caliper also helps allow smaller disks thus helping to reduce weight. The significantly lighter ZTL front wheel/brake assembly can make a HUGE difference in negotiating a bumpy road. Less unsprung mass is always good. I was blown away the first time I road an XB9S over a rough road. I felt the most planted of any bike I've ever ridden. Really impressive. Much of that is probably due to the low unsprung weight of the front wheel/brake assembly. Pretty revolutionary... for a street bike. | ||
| Locutus |
Oh back there was some crack about the Yamaha Vision being a sucky motor? Guess what a VMax is...two Vision motors glued together. If you have to go back to 1978 (TX750) to find a bad yamaha motor they're doing something right. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
My R1 has the radial brakes & to be honest I dont know what all the fuss is about. So far on the street I really havent been able to detect any difference bewteen these & conventionally mounted calipers. Loc...it wasnt so much the motor on the vision that was sucky..although it was...but rather the entire bike just sucked. Real heap of 5hit. I like yamahas a lot, but the vision was anything but a vision. |
