| Author | Message | ||
     Ben_k |
Well I just received a message from sprocket specialties and it seems that the sprocket I ordered is out of stock and they will not get another one for another 4-5 WEEKS! So I will have to put up with the horrible gearing it has now. Also, when I put all the old sprockets and chain back on and was about to take it for a ride...I started her up and then gassy oil started shooting out the vent hose. When I looked in the oil tank it was incredibly thin and gassy. Not my kind of day. Could this be a float problem? My dad wants to know if there is a needle or something where the fuel line comes in. Any sort of help would be appreciated. Tomorrow I am going to drain the oil and put new in and see if it happens again. | ||
| M1combat |
Gassy oil.... It SMELLS gassy? When was the last time it was changed? What kind of sled? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Hey Ben! Which vent? The one coming out from under the tail section? Thats the primary fluid vent, so it would be primary fluid contaminiation. If it came out wherever your breathers go (they come out the heads and go into the air filter from the factory) then the oil came from your crankcase. The petcock on the Buells is not vacum operated (like my old Yamaha was). Which is fine, as the vacum operated petcocks create more problems then they solve. You can turn off the petcock when parked, which we are all supposed to do, but generally don't. Therefore, the only think keeping gas from draining through the carbs and filling the cylinders is the needle valve, attached to the float within the carb. If this needle is old or cracked, if the seat for it is nicked or has some dirt in there, it can allow gas to gradually fill up the cylinder. Since cylinder rings require compression to seal, they will slowly let this gas drain by, going down into the crank case (not the primary). You need to get this taken care of (clean the carb, replace the needle, it's cheap and there is only one of them on the Buells). Gasoline, being a liquid, is non compressible. So trying to turn over an engine with a cylinder filled with gasoline can bend some important metal bit. There is also a seal between the crankcase and the primary, so in theory the gas could work its way all the way into there, though I would think you would have a history of spraying primary fluid all over your rear wheel hugger long before you saw gas coming out there. | ||
| Ben_k |
Well, it is shooting out from under the tail section. So, that would mean it is a primary thing? I am pretty sure it would be that float needle. Can I get that at any harley dealer or do I have to go to a buell dealer to get that needle? Also, I am going to have to drain all of the oil out from the crank and stuff so what kind of oil do you guys use? Right now I am running Amsoil V-Twin 20w50. I can't find the amounts in my owners manual either. | ||
| Mikej |
Ben, Open up your clutch inspection cover and check the fluid level. You may have a blown main seal. Maybe not, but maybe. Have a large drain pan handy when you open up the inspection cover. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Like Mike said... pop off the clutch inspection cover first. Remove the four screws gradually, if you just completely remove the first two before loosening the last two, the cover gets cocked and binds the screws, leading you to strip the stupid torx fastener in there, which you will replace with allen head chrome screws from your local harley dealer. Not that I would do that or anything  Anyway, are you sure about the smell? That tranny fluid stinks to high heaven, especially the sport trans. Even if you have changed it a couple times, I bet that stink hangs around, and it would be easy to mistake for gasoline. So one of two things may have happened. The bike may have sat for a long time, accumulated a lot of moisture in the primary, and just blew it out when it got hot. This is probably not the case, but a guy can hope. Mikej's scenario is a lot more likely, it's just the main seal between the crankcase and the primary. This sounds like a really big deal, but it is not. You the service manual (definately get) calls for a couple special tools, but neither are really necessary, we have work arounds here that have been fine. You will need a new seal (dirt cheap) and a new primary gasket (less cheap, but now really nice). Mobil 1 Gear oil is a fantastic gear oil as well, so pick up some of that (most auto parts stores). Make sure you have some lok-tite blue as well. Air tools help, but a big honking breaker bar works as well, though you will need some "really big" sockets. A torque wrench (even the $15 harbor freight special) is also prudent. If you are going to get into it, we can point you to helpful past posts here. Its a very doable job. The symptoms of my primary seal failure were junk blown all over the rear hugger / tire after hard rides. It started suddenly, probably about half an ounce per ride, and built up to about an ounce per ride within a month (at which point it was starting to effect handling :0 ) | ||
| Ben_k |
I don't know that you guys are getting my story right. I put the bike away in working order and nothing was wrong. I have only put on 600 miles myself and there was nothing leaking. I discovered that the rear sprocket was WAY too small (46 and should be a 50 or a 51). I decided I would fix this. So I ordered some new sprockets and none of them fit so beings I work at a tool & die shop I milled the rear sprocket to fit around the hub. Harley could not release me the dimensions for the front counter-shaft so the one I ordered therefore could not be milled. Then you guys suggested to me to look to sprocket specialties which I did and found the right sprocket for me which will not be here for 4 to 5 weeks now. While I was going through this ordeal I decided to change the jets so I took the carb out and put some bigger jets in because I believe it was running a little lean. After I had done that it idled better and seemed to rev better. Well, starting a couple days ago it started leaking gas out of the pipe after I would shut it off. I didn't think much of it because it wasn't a lot of it but a few drips. Last night after I had found out that my sprockets would not be here until halfway through the summer I decided to put the old sprockets and chain back on. I put them on and it was all ready to go. I then realized that for this period of a day or two I had left the gas on. I started the bike up anyways and after it had idled for about 10 seconds it started shooting gassy oil out of the breather hose under the tail section. I just got done taking the carb out and I cleaned the float needle and it seems to be working well now. So I don't know if I should just get some oil and see if it does it again or do like you guys say and tear the primary off. | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Ben, The front sprocket is the same as a 1991 Sportster so order one of those. As for the gas in the oil before you tear it all apart try the simple thing first, change the gearbox oil and the engine oil. Run the bike and if it keeps happening then look for what the boys recommended above. You may have a bad needle and could have disturbed it when re-jetting the carb. Could have even had a small bit of dirt keeping the valve open causing the problem. Check and see if the carb/float overflow tube is leaking/doing its job. If thats the problem then tap the float bowl with the end of a screwdriver and it may stop. Its not a big job but can be a little intimidating if you never did this before. Heck when I snapped my first belt I was terrified at the thought of doing what the shop manual told me to do but before I knew it and 6 hrs later I had the bike back together and vrooooooom was on the road. After the second belt I went with a chain and sprockets. There are lots of aftermarket sprockets available for the 91 Sportster. If your that stuck then e-mail me and I will get you in touch with the shop that I got mine from. Follow the manual thats online in the Knowledge Vault its very very easy to do if you follow it step by step. I have since put a computer in my garage and downloaded the manual to be resident on that computer, now I don't even open the paper manual anymore. Good Luck and keep us informed!!! | ||
| Mikej |
Question 1: how long was the bike put away for? Question 2: is there any gas in the engine oil when you drain it out? Question 3: does the primary fluid level seem normal or high? It does not matter what else you did, when a seal goes a seal goes. Follow the tube that the spew shot out of back to it's source. If the spraying tube goes to the primary area of the engine then I'd wager you have a bad seal, and very possibly if the gas was also leaking down into the engine then that may have been the cause of the seal blowing. If the spraying tube leads to the oil tank then consider yourself fortunate, change the oil immediately since gas-diluted oil does not lubricate well and go for a ride. | ||
| Ben_k |
Mikej: The bike was put away for a total of a week and a half but the gas was left on for 1 night. I haven't drained the oil out yet because I have been working on farm equipment all day but the oil is very thin and smells like gas so I would think that there is gas in there. I haven't checked the primary fluid level. | ||
| Mikej |
Okay, what probably happened like you've probably already guessed is that the gas drained down through the carb into the cylinders and into the crankcase. When you fired it up it overfilled the oiltank and purged itself of the excess amount. Be thankfull that you didn't have a piston full of gas like some have had and when they went to start their bike it acted like the engine was seized, or worse. If this was the first it'd been started since last fall then the seal could have died over the winter. Drain the oil, change the filter, refill the oil, go for a ride and enjoy the day. I've always liked the synchronicity between farm equipment and Buells.  | ||
| Bomber |
Ben sounds like you may have lucked out . . .. drain the oil (without the usual warmup procedure) (don't forget to change the filter!), run the scoot til nice and wamr, and then change the oil (and filter) again . . .. . with luck, you should then be left with nothing but a war story for the youngsters (I remember before we had microchip-controled petcocks, that I left the gas on for one day! started the sled and FOOOOMPH, fire shoots out the exaust and breather lines! what happend then, grandpa? and so on . . .. . | ||
| Mikej |
photo finish | ||
| Ben_k |
Thanx a lot guys you have been a big help. One quick question... How and what to do with the transmission oil? Where do I take it out and put it in? Also, how much? Mobil 1 Gear oil right? | ||
| Bomber |
Mobil 1 is a popular choice . . .can't go wrong using it drain it by removing the big bolt on the bottom of the primary cover (toward the read of the cover) . . .there's a dent in the stock muffler to give you clearnace to get it off . . . .. to refill, remove the clutch instpection cover (big round thing just inboard of your left foot) and pour in about 28 ounces . . . . the bike's gotta be upright to get that much in, and the level should come up to the clutch spring . . . if you pour all 32 ounces in, it'll puke it out the tranny breather . . . .. . | ||
| Reepicheep |
If you can't get that drain bolt out or in easily, turkey basters and tubing have been known as an easy way to drain the thing. I would not go to the trouble of dropping the exhaust. | ||
| Mikej |
Yep, I just use a siphon hose on the primary fluid now. | ||
| Bomber |
second (er, third) that . .. I picked up a three foot length of hose with a siphon built in from a marine supply store. . . .. .works great, and gets most of the fluid out . .. . if the fluid's contaminated though (I doubt if that's the case here), I wouldn't drop the exhaust either, I'd drop the primary cover all together (easier, imo) | ||
| Mikej |
Yep, drop the primary and ensure you also have the newer updated primary chain tensioner in there as well. Call it preventative maintenance. Something I've been meaning to do but haven't had to room to do yet. | ||
| Bomber |
and, of course, while you're at it, update the shifting mechanism, reshim the 2/3 gear cogs, polish the knuten valve seat, and change the blinker fluid (kidding! ain't it grand how "I'm going out to the garage for 5 mintes" often turns into a top end job before your done?) | ||
| Mikej |
Perpetual project creep, keeps growing and growing and growing.... | ||
| M2me |
I'm surprised no one has suggested that Ben_k should really think about getting a service manual for his bike. I'm not saying that BadWeb isn't a great resource for tech advice but I think owning a service manual is important if you plan on doing any work on your bike. I don't know if Ben_k has one or not but it kind of sounds like he doesn't. | ||
| Ben_k |
I do not own a service manual yet, if you could not tell already  By the way...where could I get me some blinker fluid?  | ||
| Bomber |
Ben email me about $75 and I'll drop ship you some | ||
| Lake_bueller |
Ben....take Bomber up on that offer. I've seen blinker fluid selling on e-bay for over $100  | ||
| Ocbueller |
Yea, but thats just regular blinker fluid. I happen to be the sole distributor for Synthetic V-Twin Blinker Fluid. I can hook you up for just under retail. Send green paper stuff found in Mommys pocketbook. SteveH | ||
| Bs33402 |
Does Benk really need the service manual when the one in the knowledge vault is for his exact bike? |
