| Author |
Message |
    
Spatten1
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 09:42 am: | 
|
Same problems all over. Some of the long-time lifer Kawasaki employees got it a few weeks ago. It was bad. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 10:17 am: |
|
>>>I'd worry more about HOG's new management not understanding Buell and the fact that Buell is doing much better in the market than Harley.
Keen observation. Much is going on. Time will tell.
I think both Buell and Harley-Davidson have a bright future. |
F_skinner
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 10:17 am: |
|
BTW, BMW is having the same demographic problems as HOG. At the big BMWMOA rally last week I noted the same demographic as the HOG clientelle- mostly aging white guys'
Buellgrrrl, Do you have a source for the BMW demographic? I realize it was just your observation but I would be very interested to see some actual research. I could not find it with a google search. Just going by the rally may be a skewed sample. I have always thought the BMW graphic was older with more income but just need to get my facts straight.
I think I have read somewhere in the past about the trouble you have with your M2. Is it fair to say the reason you think Buell disowned tubers and owners is because of the crappy dealership support you got?
I disagree with your statement but I understand it and the frustration that comes with owning an older Buell.
I do like the BMWMOA website and they seem to have a lot of things going on. Please let me know what your impressions are of the BMWMOA.
I would love to see Buell come back with another owner association that is not tied to the dealerships similar to BMWMOA and GWRRA except with BMC sponsorship and or guidance.
Frank |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 10:32 am: |
|
BMW is working hard to get beyond their demo issues. I read in one of the rags that it is why they are doing the superbike program and introducing some lower priced models. I also read that they are producing in asia to hit to price points necessary to compete for younger consumers, for what all that is worth.
Hope all is well Frank. I'm thinking of riding to Deckers with fly fishing gear to hit the Dream Stream, any desire to come with? PM me if you're interested. |
F_skinner
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 10:42 am: |
|
Spatten1, I have not been fly fishing in years. Seems like since I retired I do not have time for anything.
I have a full weekend getting the Uly ready for a trip and the S2-T ready for the Southwest Regional Buell Rally.
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/37/ 479248.html?1248016645 |
Buellgrrrl
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 11:48 am: |
|
F Skinner, I haven't found as much data on the BMW demographic as the Harley but they are similar in age and gender distribution. BMW sales are holding up better than Harley sales lately though. I suspect this is party due to better customer relations- a lot of Harley riders are still sore from the screwing they got from the dealers when it was a sellers market. Then throw in the poor after sales service and they won't be buying another Harley any time soon.
BMW has had some of the same problems in the area of after sales service- the flaming differentials and BMW's denial of same were a real low point. BMW has learned though, where HOG hasn't- the flaming diffs are now being fixed for free regardless of mileage. After denyibng problems for years, BMW is now asking for feedback from owners and the BMWMOA so they can catch problems early and fix them. BMW is also attracting women riders with low height options on almost every model. The dealers have also improved too, and parts are now routinely supplied for 20, 30 and even 40 year old BMWs... Contrast that with the problems we're having getting the correct front isolator for Tubers that are only 8 years out of production.
BTW, the BMW dealers we're able to sell me a new bike partly because they were honest with me- the dealer I bought from told me that he had reached his bank credit limit and needed to sell the 2 year old new bike so he could put a 2009 on the floor, and he cut me a very good deal. At the same time the local HD/Buell dealers we're trying to get list plus hefty markups for a new Buell, denying that they were in financial trouble when I knew otherwise. In fact, a couple days before they filed for bankruptcy, the dealer in Dubuque was still trying to get almost MSRP for a 2 year old new Buell. That dealership model has to die before it takes down HOG with it! |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 12:58 pm: |
|
Further update on the goings on at HD:
http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews/article/artic leDetail.jsp?id=612010
It mentions the Sportster powertrain plant in Wauwatosa, Wis being included in the temporary shutdown. Don't they build the Thunderstorm engines for Buell too? |
Buellgrrrl
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 01:07 pm: |
|
Strange that they're shutting down Sportster production when the Sportster is selling better than the big twins. Also, unless they've got some powertrains stockpiled we may see a shutdown of aircooled Buell production too. |
Aptbldr
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 03:05 pm: |
|
Reason #11 H-D's sales are down: they're no longer writing sub-prime loans to sell 'em.
Same reason every home builders' sales are down and LOTS of good people are losing jobs around that industry's circles.
Nothing's wrong now, except our gov't keeps trying to fix it. |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 03:11 pm: |
|
"Strange that they're shutting down Sportster production when the Sportster is selling better than the big twins. Also, unless they've got some powertrains stockpiled we may see a shutdown of aircooled Buell production too."
They have to. HD is moving the motor assembly line about 8 miles up the road to Menomonee Falls. Yes, the Thunderstorm line will move too. Capitol Dr. is closing, only the PDC will be running. As of now. I heard some rumors that IF York closes, and it may, production from there would be moved into Capitol Dr. |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 03:23 pm: |
|
The dealers have also improved too, and parts are now routinely supplied for 20, 30 and even 40 year old BMWs... Contrast that with the problems we're having getting the correct front isolator for Tubers that are only 8 years out of production.
I don't know production info off the top of my head, but I'm not sure this is a fair comparison. How many Buell's were built even 8 years compared to how many BMWs 20 or 30 years ago? I've never bought anything for it, but my dealer claims to have parts in stock for my 45 year old Sportster.
I understand the frustration, and as much as it pains me to say it, I think limited parts availibility (even though I don't think they're all that limited for Buell) is just part of the game when you're dealing with a low-production and relatively young company. |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 03:50 pm: |
|
As of now. I heard some rumors that IF York closes, and it may,
That would be a real blow to York, already hurt from the exodus of Caterpillar and York Refrigeration. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 04:04 pm: |
|
Not to mention the York peppermint patties. |
Limitedx1
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 04:34 pm: |
|
HD may get smaller, or take a brief break..........but HD will never go away in this country.
just riding with different people in the last month i saw at least 5 brand new bikes bought from the dealer. |
Moxnix
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 05:50 pm: |
|
H-D may not go away, but the Buell business model will have better profit margin.
(Message edited by moxnix on July 25, 2009) |
Mattwhite
| | Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 12:47 am: |
|
I heard a summary of BMW demographics in response to news of a crash on a group ride. "The good news is they had a bunch of doctors and lawyers with them."
They're also plentiful where I work, we're mostly engineers. |
Moxnix
| | Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 10:17 am: |
|
Rang up my old BMW riding buddy from the trades out West. Say's the new 1300 is hoped to break into the Hayabusa crowd with younger riders.
Engineers, indeed. And pipe smokers. And college professors. And sail boaters. And Mensa members. And garden variety world travelers. |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 10:21 am: |
|
Pipe smokers and sail boaters, that's damn funny! |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 06:10 pm: |
|
Tough everywhere. . . .
quote:It was really just 35 words that announced the ends of two careers at Porsche: "In the last weeks Wiedeking and Härter have come to the conclusion, that the further strategic development of Porsche SE and Porsche AG is better off, if they are not on board as acting persons." And so, effective immediately, they aren't. The man who would be was king, Wendelin Wiedeking, and his majordomo CFO Holge Härter, have retired from Porsche with immediate effect.
The move was said to clear the way for Porsche to merge with VW and provide some relief for Porsche's balance sheet. After the same meeting that decided Wiedeking's fate, Porsche announced that it planned to increase its capital by €5 billion (about $7.1B U.S.). That's a big chunk of change, but it's only about a third of the company's debt load, and officials didn't say whether that figure would come from banks, Qatar, or some other investor. Wiedeking's position will be filled for now by supervisory board member and former head of production Michael Macht.
For severance, Wiedeking will get half of the package recently mentioned, a still-healthy sum of €50M ($71M U.S.). He has already pledged half of that money to a charity that will assist in job creation in Germany. Härter will receive €12.5M ($17.8M). Wiedeking, of course, hasn't said anything about where he might go from here, but at only 56 and with his story, we have a feeling we'll see him in the saddle again before long.
Source: The New York Times
|
Stingaroo
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 09:56 am: |
|
FVB, you are not lying. My old man works as a maintenance machinist there. He has got laid off from Black and Decker, and then USE Diamond back in the 80's. He has just a few more years at HD till the house would be paid off, then after putting in a few more he was going to retire. There are going to be shutdowns in August, and I beleive November.
I work on the otherside of York at BAE Systems, they had 3 layoffs since I have been deployed, so my situtation there is not looking so great once I get back. |
Moxnix
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 11:54 am: |
|
In 1954, General Motors became the very fist American company to earn $1 billion. Today, the entire market capitalization of General Motors is LESS than $300 million. Facebook, on the other hand, just sold for $10 billion. What else do you need to know about the strength of the American economy? Can we Facebook our way to long-term economic vitality? How many jobs does a Facebook type enterprise produce?
America needs to produce products for domestic and foreign consumption. Manufacturers need access to credit to build. Purchasers need access to credit to consume.
We've all watched the slow secular decline of the American economy. During the last few decades, the world’s biggest economic superpower has become somewhat less super. In the context of this long-term decline, the American economy is battling the most serious credit crisis since the Great Depression. And this battle is far from over. Banks in the U.S. are still not lending, they are merely sucking in capital to re-build their balance sheets as a provision for future losses.
There are no "green shoots" of recovery; It’s just moss. |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 12:25 pm: |
|
Can we Facebook our way to long-term economic vitality?
NO.
Moxnix: Many good points there. Unfortunately the only way I can see righting the ship is for Americans to earn less so that our products are priced closer to those of Asia. We should be able to keep the delta of the shipping costs, but we will not get back to our inflated standard of living based on money we don't earn (borrow) for long. Sucks, but it's just how it has to be. We can shut the boarders and sell things at home for a lot of money, and we get higher salaries to pay for more expensive goods, but that doesn't really fix anything and keeps us from exporting, which is the driver to become a superpower again. |
Moxnix
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 12:48 pm: |
|
I agree. A country that does not export in a global market does, indeed, sit stagnant a best, but usually declines.
Our Great Depression had a lot of folk living in 3 generation households. One mortgage and someone to watch the shrubs while parents worked. Now that it takes two incomes from hubby & frau to make house payments, and daycare costs, I would certainly advise people to find less expensive housing in an area of jobs with a short commute. And hope for the best.
Also, as the old adage goes: niches make riches. So employment in, or ownership of, a niche business less effected by or improved during economic downturns may be a direction for some to take. Or, if stimulus money will be used for construction of infrastructure and such, be where those projects are. Then again, it's all a crap shoot. |
Mortarmanmike120
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 12:55 pm: |
|
Unfortunately the only way I can see righting the ship is for Americans to earn less so that our products are priced closer to those of Asia.
Good point, but earning less is only part of it. The high taxes on manufacturers will never allow us to reach that point. Even if the earners were making zero the tax advantages still go to asia. Of course taxes could arguably be part of our inflated standard of living. Those taxes allow a large chunk of the population to live with a standard of living far greater then would be possible based on their 'non-productiveness.'
Out of curiosity, I wonder what percentage of Chinese are 'non-productive?' By that I mean retired, disabled, or cronically lazy. |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 01:00 pm: |
|
Good point on the taxes. If there were not the inherent inneficiency and waste, they would go a long(er) way to improve our standard of living. We do have one hell of a road and water system in this county. |
Madduck
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 01:48 pm: |
|
All excellent points, one problem, the USA is /was the only large economy based on consumption. Export to who is always the question, the USA was always the answer. Now that we are not and with very little likelihood of ever being that again. Where goes the world economy??
Globalization, in the long run, always had the basic assumption that other econmies would follow the USA model; income grows, consumption per capita follows and we all prosper. Most developing countries run through a couple of generations of a saving cycle so the consumption phase will occur in another 100 years. Hope we can wait that long.
My personal guess is that export/imports and globalization are now dead and that in the next 30 years 90% of the worlds population will be dependent on locally produce/grown products. Getting governments and wall street to acknowledge this new reality will be a huge problem as their relative importance will be severly diminished. Powerful people will always resist giving up that power.
Watch how many evil Bush powers the Obama is willing to give up. |
Mortarmanmike120
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 02:30 pm: |
|
My personal guess is that export/imports and globalization are now dead and that in the next 30 years 90% of the worlds population will be dependent on locally produce/grown products.
Maybe. I see China's exports to the US growing hugely but not it the way you think. As China's population continues to skyrocket whats happening to her resources. Instead of importing resources from the US, I'm betting we eventually see massive immigration of folks from China. Much more so then even goes on today. Think the government would maintain immigration controls once China owns the majority share of our assets? Before I get labelled a xenophobe, I'm just speculating.
All excellent points, one problem, the USA is /was the only large economy based on consumption. Export to who is always the question, the USA was always the answer. Now that we are not and with very little likelihood of ever being that again.
Never underestimate our capacity to consume. History is cyclic. Will we ever be the singular superpower? I doubt it. Will we once again be a consumption based society. Of course. Look at our great depression. What preceded that? The roaring 20's. All was right with the world, America was thriving and growing. Granted not like today but still relatively booming. Then the big D! We're seeing a sample of what happened 80 years ago. Same with the 60's-70's. Feast, famine, feast, famine. I see a pattern. |
|
