| Author | Message | ||
     Aeholton |
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| Ft_bstrd |
I smell lawsuit. Then again bullshit reasons are used for "probable cause" every day. | ||
| Aesquire |
Comment 1. Only idiots expect their civil rights to be respected at a traffic stop. I'm not saying police as a group are corrupt. Far from it. But rapid, willing obedience to the whims of a possibly frightened, armed group of men is the best way to avoid trouble. Cynical? yes. But true. Other situations other responses, up to & including lethal defense. But not police at a traffic stop. ( not police ever, if at ALL possible. The odds against the real need to shoot a policeman are astronomical, and outside of bad movies...ridiculous. ) 2. Sue those B&*^()s for the departments total budget. Good luck. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
This is what happens when you resist. I want to know why he didnt just roll down the window??? If you give the cops a hard time, whether or not you're right, they are gonna mess with you so it's best to go along with them and lodge a complaint later. However, I am concerned with the increasing lawlessness of the people charged with enforcing the law. The Police, in general, have become more militarized over the years and the officers appear to be younger. Also, they are recruiting way too many hot-heads based on what I observe in my local area. I blame the politicians and the courts for some of this because they are not keeping the criminals in jail, making a cops job that more stressful and difficult. | ||
| Thumper74 |
Hell, refusing the search could be considered probable cause. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Sounds like a retaliatory beating. | ||
| Az_m2 |
I wonder why he didn't comply and file a complaint later. Seems he was looking for a fight and got one. We have heard his side of the story, probably won't get to hear the Border Patrol & DPS side. Chris | ||
| Hexangler |
He's real lucky they didn't put drugs or a body in his trunk. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
What horse shit that you have to allow your rights to be violated and then prove that they were? It's hard as hell to win a case against an officer without evidence of wrong doing. It almost ALWAYS becomes a my word vs. the officers and the officer carries the weight. It's only when the violation is filmed or when there is physical evidence (or a body) that you can prove the illegal act. I am VERY supportive of law enforcement. These guys have a tremendously difficult job doing their job. That said, these aren't the first set of officers to go off the rails when they feel they are being "defied". I believe that the pastor had encountered this checkpoint before. He knew the officers. They knew of him. The gauntlet was thrown. The officers won the battle of will. This pastor will win the war of law. It isn't against the law to be an ass. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
I surprised they let that guy go. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
My favorite part of V for Vendetta is when that gorgeous creature Natalie Portman turns to the officer of the law and simply says NO. We all need some shaking up of our priorities and my lack of support for the so called L.E.O. is well documented, both here and in court, I haven't really lost a case in court, nor have I really won....so when do we capitulate to the point that our free country is only a marketing slogan instead of reality? I applaud this show of freedom from this pastor.....I hope he REALLY wins his lawsuit... | ||
| Az_m2 |
How were his rights violated? I don't want the individuals driving thru checkpoints to determine whether they are being suspicious or not, I would like the Border Patrol to make that call and act accordingly. Someone refusing to answer questions seems suspicious to me. Same situation, hispanic male with tinted windows, would they have let him go? I don't think so. Which action do you prefer? Seems we need to let everyone drive thru without answering questions or not. Chris | ||
| Froggy |
He said he has to show up in court tomorrow, but they never told him what hes charged with? Only thing I could think is resisting arrest. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
They illegally searched his car. It's pretty clear. Now, they should have detained him and gotten a search warrant. At that point, the BP officers would have been complying with both the need to search the vehicle AND the 4th Amendment. The search wasn't really the reason he was beaten. They had no probable cause. The issue was that THESE officers felt their authority was being challenged and couldn't back down. It was a classic pissing contest. | ||
| Aeholton |
Living in FL, I'm not familiar with these "checkpoints". Am I correct in my understanding that they are not actually on the border? Seems kind of totalitarian to have such places other than border crossings. | ||
| Az_m2 |
You are taking him at his word in the first video. Again, will be interesting to read the DPS / BP side of the story. Maybe it will get some local news coverage. My opinion of course, but I believe the Pastor got exactly what he wanted out of these exchanges. I'm also interested to see if he video taped the exchange that led to the beating. Chris | ||
| Liquorwhere |
AZ,what side of the story? I watched one video here where the officer said he was being detained for "suspicion of something"....WTF is that? You watched the second video as well I would assume? Of course I am an admitted LEO hater so, I will stop now......... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
They are on sections of roads near the boarder where drug mules and illegal immigrants catch rides from coyotes pick them up to carry them to the next destination. I have no problem with the use of the checkpoints. The issue is that you can't run them the same way you do the border stations. The Constitution applies 50 feet inside the US border. It sure as HELL applies where this went down. This guy is the pastor of a VERY conservative church. Fire breathing, brimstone slinging church. KJV is the only REAL bible and the rest are direct from satan church. Very activist mindset. Probably would applaud the "God Hates Fags" signs held up at gay pride parades. Doesn't mean he is wrong, but it does mean that there is probably more to the story than just the conclusion. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
within a 100 miles of the border..... I assume the principle is to "mop up" illegals that get through the border. Let's face it, cops like being cops and if given the opportunity they are going to overstep their bounds. We have in my area the Maryland Transportation Authority Police, which are tasked with policing the bridges and tunnels, yet, they routinely make stops in areas that aren't even close to a bridge. I guess they get bored. | ||
| Az_m2 |
I've been stopped at checkpoints on US 8 which parallels the border multiple times. You can Google Map it to see how close it is to Mexico. Each time for me it was the same drill. Stop at the Stop sign, BP agent asks if I'm a U.S. Citizen, I say "yes", and I'm waved on. Takes about 2 seconds. Illegal immigration is a huge law enforcement problem in Arizona. Phoenix is #2 in the WORLD for kidnappings, right behind Mexico City. Chris | ||
| Az_m2 |
Dale, I watched both videos. It seems suspicious enough to me to detain someone and search their vehicle if they refuse to answer questions. That's only my opinion, I'm sure similar scenarios have been hashed out in the courts multiple times. My point is that we saw one video of an exchange that led to the Pastor goin' about his business. We are assuming that the exchange that led to the beating went down the same way based on the Pastor's other video. But we don't have video of what actually happened leading up to the beating, and haven't heard the BP/DPS side of the story. Chris | ||
| Aeholton |
But we don't have video of what actually happened leading up to the beating, and haven't heard the BP/DPS side of the story. Hopefully, surveillance video from the check point will be released soon. However, I'm wondering if it will have any worthwhile audio. Wonder why the pastor didn't have his video camera going on this last stop when the beat down took place?  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
My guess? He forgot his video camera. They yanked his ass out of the car. Opportunity. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
if you watch this video and especially Part 2, you'll see where the preacher got his ideas. (Message edited by Ferris_von_bueller on April 16, 2009) | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
Since he made a youtube video, he must be above reproach. What a di@kwad. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Oh, he's an ass of magnitude one. The 4th Amendment protects asses of the first magnitude. This is why officers are trained and retrained. You don't get to disregard the law because someone is irritating. | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
The second video guy needs to brush up on US border search authority. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The second video guy is the first video guy. | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
So the rules of border crossing apply to everyone else except him? | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
Fatty, I just figured that out. I not so smart. |
