| Author | Message | ||
     Fresnobuell |
Hey fellas, I am looking to add a dual sport to the stable....the Uly is great but it is a little too much bike in all respects for what I am after....anyone have any experience or advice on the subject? Here are some models I am considering... Suzuki DR-650SE Suzuki DR-Z400S Kawi KLR-650 Honda XR-650L Yamaha WR-250R | ||
| Danger_dave |
Not an expert on these bikes personally - Campfire discussions amongst the editorial staff at Kiwi Rider see the DR650 regarded as the best all-round motorcycle on a dollar for dollar basis. | ||
| Barker |
I define a dual sport is something that I pick up atleast 10 times in one day and something I can drag out of ditch. Soooo, I would say the DRZ, its light, but can also reach highway speeds. IIRC it is like riding a 2x4. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Yeah Barker. I am looking for something like that. SOmething I can use as a commuter, gets good MPG and not worry about nicking it up here and there. Plus being able to hit an the trails is appealing. My 1125r is a wonderful bike, but between the gas, tires and maintenance I see it more as a track day and weekend canyon strafer. I have to figure out honestly the breakdown between onroad/offroad as that will be an important factor...also seat height too (are they all 36 inches!?!?!?.) Keep the opinions coming! | ||
| Doubled |
A lot of guys around here run KTM 450 or 525 EXCs. They are the wide ratio gearbox, plenty capable of highway speeds and still light enough to throw around on the dirt. Personally, I would stay away from the 650s, too much a s s for the type of off road I do. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
European bikes are not being consider primarily due to cost....I am leaning towards the 250 or 400cc displacements. I like the idea of a 300 lb dry weight bike. You just can't get there with a 650. Anyone know how to get an idea of power output of these DS bikes? Can't seem to find hard numbers on HP/Torque....do I have to look at the specs of the engine and make my own conclusions? From what I can tell the Yami Wr-250R seems to have the tuned, trick engine (you can see this from the specs as well as the price), but it starts to blur for the rest of the bikes in that class. As fast the 400cc DS class, looks like Suzuki has the only Japanese offering....400cc maybe a great compromise between the 650 and 250. | ||
| Kurbennett |
Good list. The 650's give you some distance capabilities, but are still a little heavy for technical dirt runs. That being said I picked up a used BMW 650X that has been a blast. A lot of the folks I ride with like the Suzuki 650 or 400. Most will need some mods to suspension and seating to really make them good. I would recommend you check out the Thumpers forum at Advrider to get an idea which might fit. | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>I define a dual sport is something that I pick up atleast 10 times in one day and something I can drag out of ditch. << I would call that a MX bike. A dual sport is reasonable to ride 500 miles to the adventure course and back home again. | ||
| Tramp |
Kawi KLR-650 Honda XR-650L | ||
| Psyclonej |
What about a Cyclone? | ||
| Spiderman |
You mane an S1 isn't a dual sport!?! I can sure get crossed up on a dirt road at about 60  | ||
| Jerseyguy |
I had a DRZ400S for a year or so and was kind of disappointed. It was a go anywhere kind of deal but it wasn't particularly good in any venue. It was very heavy for serious off road work, especially in tight woods. With DOT knobbies mounted, it was scary at 60 MPH on the highway. Not a bad bike, just a compromise that didn't work for me. I ended up getting a XB9s (my first Buell) and a YZ 250F to replace it.  | ||
| Seanp |
I know it's not on your list, but I picked up a used KLX-250 cheap after getting my Uly stuck in some 6" deep mud. It's purely a fun little toy, which is why I don't mind that it's only a 250. When I get on the KLX after the Uly it feels like I'm riding a mountain bike with a motor. It's so much nicer to have a lightweight bike. I looked at the DRZ-400, but there were none readily available around here when I had the money. From the research I did, I had narrowed my options down to either the DRZ or the KLX. It just happened that the KLX came along first... | ||
| Miamiuly |
LOVE my WR250R. Just did a little 190 mile ride last weekend. Yamaha even gave it a special web site. Sadly the special site is in Japanese but still some good stuff to browse. http://www.yamaha-motor.jp/mc/wr/index.html One of the videos on the site but a youtube link. And another good one | ||
| Miamiuly |
The thing about the 250r is that it is lighter than the others, fuel injected, 26,600 mile valve check. Same size as my 125cc ktm, WR is about 300lbs but feels lighter. 2 gallon tank good for about 110 miles of mixed riding. (Lots of full throttle.)     It's no uly on the road, but has 6 gears and cruises at highway speeds no problem. Great for around town- cool scooter. | ||
| Strokizator |
Hey Fresnobuell, I have an '06 DRZ400E with the Athena 440 kit, FCR carb, corbin seat and exhaust. Send me a PM if you'd like to see it. I'm over near Belmont CC. I took the Uly to Death Valley on the 8th & 9th. Went down some way scary rocks and won't do that again. As much as I want to deny it, I'm getting too old for the dirt. (Message edited by strokizator on November 17, 2008) | ||
| Reepicheep |
I got a KLR-250, which is a lot like a KLX-250, or that 250 Yamaha. Here's the thing... a $3000 XB9S makes a drop dead great street bike, anything from a 20 mile daily commute, to a 200 mile day, it works perfectly. It can do a 350 mile day, and you won't end up with a permenant physical disability as a result, but you'll be working pretty hard after 250 miles or so. For dirt bikes, I am with you. If I haven't picked it up at least 5 times, and drug the stupid stuck thing out of at least one muddy hole or ravine, it wasn't a real ride. So that makes a 300lb bike about as much as I would want to consider. So I bought a $800 (by the time it had everything fixed to be running well) 1985 KLR-250. Thats getting pretty old and it has had issues though, so lets bump that up to a $2000 bike. That should be able to get a KLX-250, a Yamaha 350, or any number of other good "street legal from the factory" dirt oriented bikes. So for $5000 total, you have a nice 9s for street use, and a nice little dual sport for off road use (and running up to the auto parts store when you are in the mood to do wheelies or jump curbs). That was my plan... and it worked out really well. I really like having both bikes around. In hindsight, I would do the same thing, but do it even more... here is what I have learned... 1) Lighter is better, and suspension matters. I now would look at weight first and foremost, and suspension quality second. "Power" comes in a distant third. My neighbor has a CRF-450x that I have ridden a few times, and I spend a lot more time afraid of it then enjoying it. I have often wished my KLR-250 was lighter or better sprung, but have only had a couple occasions now where I 'needed' more power. 2) You want your dirt bike geared down low enough that it approaches useless at anything above 55 mph. Even if you didn't, a thumper is a PITA at high speeds. 3) Whatever tires you put on your bike for the dirt are going to be lousy on the street... both in terms of how they ride, and how fast you would ruin them. Did I mention how much of a PITA the thing will be at high speeds? Tingly fingers anyone? 4) For me, at least in Ohio, it is FAR FAR easier to plate a non originally street legal bike then I ever imagined. I went on an organized "dual sport ride" near Zanesville, and of 200 or so bikes there, I bet less then 10 of us had "street legal bikes". Maybe 1 of us finished. The other 190 were on (legally) plated dirt bikes, including plenty of 2 strokes. 5) Light bikes are built to be light. So they overload quickly with things like heated grips, and just aren't that comfortable. They are a fun "toy commuter", but there are far better street bikes. On the street, their brakes *suck*, even before you put on the right tires, and a high strung thumper wears out fast relative to a twin or even an inline four. Watch how many of the bikes you look for have 10k or 15k miles and say "new top end". Not a big deal to install a new top end, but it gets old thinking about it when you are racking up 300 miles a week commuting. You start to look for excuses not to ride. So if I were to do it again, I would do just what I did, but care even ***less*** how well my "dirt" bike does on the street. I would still plate it, as it is great fun to run around town on, and nice to go sneak out to the country to some local quasi legal trails I have scared up... and its fun to take to work two or three times a month when I am not in a hurry and feel like annoying all the $15k cruiser riders parked in the lot. Or when I want to jump curbs on the way to the auto parts store... But it's just a plaything / loaner / drop it and not care / teach a buddy to ride bike. For $100, I got a trailer hitch for my commuter car, and the neighbor has the Harbor Freight trailer ($250 or something). So for the real trails near me (about between 1.5 and 3 hours for even the basic ones) there is no way I would ride there without trailering if I could help it. I have done it, and it was fun once, but the street ride there was compromised by the "annoying on the road" factors, the ride while there in the woods was compromised by the fact that if I really broke anything (peeled off a shifter or tweak a shoulder) that I was then helpless in the middle of freaking nowhere and 1+ hours from the nearest friend with a pickup. That Yammie above is very cool, and would be on my shortlist, but at least for Ohio, and the fun kind of "go anywhere in the woods" riding I enjoy so much, those tires would get you stuck everywhere any time it had rained recently. And the gearing is probably too tall. So by the time you fixed that and made it a great little woods bike, it would be a lot less fun on the street unless you were just running around town (45 mph speedlimits or less). The KLR-250 isn't bad for the price, but I wouldn't pay more then $1800 or so for one... and would hope to pay closer to $1200. More then $2000 and there are better bikes out there. The math of this whole long analysis might change if you were in a state that made it harder to plate non originally street legal bikes. So I would be looking for: 1) Under 300 pounds wet. 2) Makes at least 20 HP. 3) As good a suspension as I could get for my budget. 4) Affordably platable (not necessarily already plated). | ||
| Mikexlr650 |
have been riding my xr650l for the past 14 years, no complaints. dual sports are all about tires, real knobs will make any of them work reasonably well off road, but always provide for an uneasy street ride. dp tires are great on the road but are difficult in wet or technical off road situations. i've ridden the xr from manhattan straight up the ny thruway to the border of canada for a day of trails and back again in a weekend. dp bikes are about the best bang for the buck you can get. don't stress the model too much, you'll have fun with any of them. | ||
| Skinstains |
I have a 98 DR 650 Suzi and a 91 XT350 Yami. The DR 650 is way to heavy for the dirt and the XT350 is a bit lite for the road (underpowered and whispy). I would like to get a European DP but the cost is a bit prohibitive. The DR 400 is the choice for me. It's been around a while so it's been refined along the way and it's Japanese so you know it will work as it is supposed too for a long time too. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I know it's not on your list, but I picked up a used KLX-250 Funny you say that as I discovered the KLX soon after the inital post. Definitely an add-on. Oh, the list is just a rough one. Anything will be considered....} | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Reepi...great informative post that helps put things in perspective. Seems like my idea of having a 300 lb. dual sport that doubles a commuter will not work like I anticipated... And thanks everyone else too! | ||
| Miamiuly |
The yami has a 350 watt alternator I believe. The main thing about the klx250s is that everyone says you want to change the carb to the $1000.00 FCR. That bumps the price up to wr area. They do have Big bore kits for the klx too. If you find one modded out already, that would be cool. The yami could definitely withstand some gearing change, it does 80 (gps) pretty easily with some more to go. Here is a good source to read up on what people think of their WRRs. http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php? f=384 | ||
| Fresnobuell |
It's no uly on the road, but has 6 gears and cruises at highway speeds no problem. Great for around town- cool scooter. which means the Yami WR gearing is too tall for off-road exploits? Something can could cruise on the highway without scaring the crap out of me or running on the redline in top gear would be great. sounds like the WR might be the way to go? | ||
| Tm74 |
I want that WRR Miami. It looks like what the doctor ordered. I've been following the thread on advrider. It would fit perfectly beside my DR650. I've been trying to find a good deal on a used one but I doubt that's going to happen. Fresno, I would try to test ride different bikes but I think that WR250R is smokin. Gearing may not be a problem. Can sprockets be changed quickly? For my DR650, I leave the cover off the front sprocket and use a clip to hold the sprocket on. Many people do this with the DR. It's really quick and easy to change sprockets on the fly when you get to the trail. I don't agree with Reepicheep on many points. It's not a 250, but I can't even tell you how many 350-400+ days my DR650 has seen. I do it all the time. My best was 900 miles in one day, but boy I was beat. Point is, there are many people who have toured on 250s. You don't drone on the interstate with them. Most are fine on the highway and right at home on the back roads. There's a guy in South America as we speak that left from the US...on a KLR250.  http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37 7792 As far as reliability, again I don't agree with Reepicheep. There are many high mileage thumpers out there. Street legal dual sport engines are designed to last. They aren't transplants out of race bikes. There's a thread in 'thumpers' on advrider right now that's discussing it. Some of the mileages posted really surprised me. You mention splitting street and off road to determine what you want to get. I would suggest adding in how rough of trails you want to ride. There's a big difference between single track and wanting to ride the Trans-America Trail. You might be really happy with a 650 or your riding needs may lead you to a 250. It depends on use, not just how much dirt. My DR650 is fine on mild trails with some rough patches thrown in. What it's not good at is a lot of rough and/or technical terrain. The bikes weight takes it's toll. It's heavy and it wears me out fairly quickly. Rider experience also comes into play(knowing how to minimize fatigue) but for the rough/technical stuff most will tell you something like the DR650 or KLR650 are too heavy. You might check out some of the Dual Sport(not adventure riding) ride reports on advrider. Specifically Cannonshot, bigdogadventures, gaspipe, Neduro, and others. They're all experienced and the discussion of bike size is usually discussed. It's good to match stories, pictures, and bikes to get a rough idea of what bikes to look at. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Nope, Buell riders dont ride off road. Nope we dont want a light dual sport to do it on. Nope we wont spend money else where to get it. The is just NO market for a Buell DS/SM  Don't even get me f'n started. | ||
| Iamike |
I also have a DR650. It gets 50-55mpg (don't know what the HP is but it will run 100 in stock gearing). But with the 80% dirt knobbies that I use it gets squirrly above 55. I used to have an XR400 but couldn't get it licensed in Iowa. I think the XR had the same performance and was better dirt suited. My butt does get sore after 50+ mi. days on the DR riding trails. | ||
| Danger_dave |
Rider skill - and size - has a lot to do with this debate too. I've seen our stunt man do things on a Triumph Scrambler fitted with trailwings that i was having trouble keeping a top of the range, kitted out KTM ADV bike upright in. For that matter - A DR650 IS a lightweight bike to me. A 250 won't go much over 50mph. | ||
| Tm74 |
 But Dave, aren't you 9ft. tall and 400lbs? I don't think I've seen you on a DR650 but you probably make it look like a mini bike. Excellent point about rider skill and size. I'm kinda scrawny and I'm not the most skilled. My DR does wear me down in the rough stuff. Besides being in a lot better riding shape, I know the really skilled guys know how keep fatigue in check just by their technique. City- You've gone on and on about that. Have you thought about buying one of the many excellent dual-sports on the market? Enough already! | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>But Dave, aren't you 9ft. tall and 400lbs? << And hard as granite. Unfortunately only on the internet. | ||
| Slaughter |
DRZ400s gets my vote (and got my money) HUGE aftermarket too. Baja Designs supports MANY of the popular dual sports with usable goodies (like the extended range tank). Mine has taken its share of abuse:  If it's not geared down llloooooowwwww, it'll move out on the freeway just fine (if you HAVE to) Handling is acceptable for mild off-road in non-technical stuff. I was going to look at the DR-650 but went for the water-pumper. Reliable as a rock. |
