| Author | Message | ||
     Wolfridgerider |
Just got this in a email this morning..... I'd get a 1125R to race... pay off the house.... buy a toy hauler.... I'm against the $85,000,000,000 bailout of AIG. Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a ""We Deserve It Dividend"". To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.. So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000. My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a "We Deserve It Dividend". Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%. Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam. But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000. What would you do with $297,500 to $595,000 in your family? Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved. Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads Put away money for college - it'll be there Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs. Buy a new car - create jobs Invest in the market - capital drives growth Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces. If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ("vote buy") economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President. If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+! As for AIG - liquidate it. Sell off its parts. Let American General go back to being American General. Sell off the real estate. Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up. Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't. Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work." But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party! How do you spell Economic Boom? I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion "We Deserve It Dividend" more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC. And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam. Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest. Kindest personal regards, A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic | ||
| Ftd |
I believe you are off by a factor of 1000. $425 to each person. 85 X 10 9 / 200 X 10 6= 425 | ||
| Ducxl |
However you slice it,we cannot allow our government to Socialize Wall street losses. Someone last night remarked that it's funny that,for many years we haven't been able to enact Socialized medicine for the masses yet,we MUST socialize Wall street's losses in a weeks time  I'm dead set against it.Funny too how many Repugnanticans are also.THis fiasco cost me my party affiliation with the Republicans. I'd never join the Democrats as they're too far left. Ralph Nader....The Consumer's advocate (Message edited by ducxl on September 26, 2008) | ||
| Jaimec |
I have my own thoughts on this subject. After I posted that, a friend pointed me to this video. Sounds like Wanda Sykes and I are on the same page: | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I heard them say the buy out would be equal to 3000 bucks per man, woman and child.... Does that count border jumpers? Who is gonna bail me out?? Ooooppppsss... thats right.. I got up and went to work today.... | ||
| Xl1200r |
The math is so far off it isn't even funny. Not only is it off by a factor of 1000, the tax rate is WAY low (think closer to 45% or higher on a $425,000 check), and also, WHERE DO YOU THINK THE MONEY COMES FROM?!?! If the gov't gives you $425,000, that means someone paid all that in, and the gov't didn't need it for anything more important than to put a smile on your face. As for the bailout... Isn't this thing a loan, anyways? They aren't just handing AIG money and forgetting about it. The lender makes money on a loan. I don't like this bailout either, but it's a neccessary evil. We can rip the band-aid off real fast and be done with it, or just leave it on and let the cut get infected and destroy the rest of the body. DISCLAIMER: I have no idea what I'm talking about. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Furthermore, $425 is less than last year's tax rebate. Using those numbers means we paid out something like $120,000,000,000 so each person could get a measly $600 and buy Tiwanese crap with it. | ||
| Ryanhook |
if its a loan, then from who? America for sale $700B OBO | ||
| Mikef5000 |
I've been completely against the bailout... until someone at my work just made an interesting point. I may be against the bailout now, but as soon as my bank can't cash my paycheck, I may change my mind. I do think the banks (that screwed up to create this situation in the first place) are not deserving of the bailout money. Maybe, just like our govenment officials, banks need to be flushed out every few years as well. Disclaimer, banks were by no means completely at fault for this situation, I know that, you know that. An interesting point my 60+ year old teacher made last night... It was extremely difficult to get a credit card when she was fresh out of high school. She had a job, and was going to college, and was still denied. Then she went on to say her 20 year old daughter, who is in college with no job whatsoever, just got a letter yesterday saying one of her credit cards limit just was raised to 10 grand, and that she is constantly throwing away credit card offers that are being mailed to her. What happened??? And why is anyone suprised so many people are in debt right now??? | ||
| Xl1200r |
if its a loan, then from who? From us, for us. AIG employs over 100,000 people. Would you rather they just all lost their jobs overnight? | ||
| Swordsman |
"Isn't this thing a loan, anyways? They aren't just handing AIG money and forgetting about it. The lender makes money on a loan. " Um, a loan that the creators themselves acknowledge "might" make back "part" of the money. It's a total gamble, with some losses guaranteed. ~SM | ||
| Jaimec |
No, XL1200R... I want the executives and the board of directors to lose their jobs, NOT the rest of the grunts who were dragged along for the ride. The Senior Management and the Board created the problem... THEY should fix it... even if it means living on food stamps and going "home" to a refrigerator box at the bus terminal every night. Let them live like that for awhile to give them some "perspective." | ||
| Reepicheep |
If it ends up a bailout, it's time for armed revolt again. But I don't think it will be, and I don't think it has been yet. Talking to someone this morning that *really* understands this stuff, I got some good insights. 1) If you let the free market just work it out, it would, but it would do so by kicking a LOT of people out of houses, and *really* trashing real estate values for a while, and some investors would take a whupping. 2) The government intervention goals should be more about stepping in when there is an irrational "run on the bank". If it is a case where the institution is more or less solvent, and has decent assets, but can't satisfy "everyone coming at once", the government can "loan" cash in return for assets that can be later sold in an orderly fashion to repay the money. 3) Unlike during the depression, there is lots of liquidity and cash out there. Just not invested in these really risky markets. People aren't dumb. So bad investments are suffering most, which is as it should be. 4) The same idiots that took on these really risky loans then proceeded to highly leverage them. Amplifying their potential gains, but also amplifying their losses when the sky fell (as it now has). 5) Banking rules changes from maybe 15 years ago set the stage for some of this. Before then, the bank gave you a loan because they thought you would repay it. After the change, the bank started giving you a loan because they thought they could get a commission then promptly sell the loan to somebody else. Their motives changed, and practices subtly (but importantly) shifted as a result. So a lot more loans got made. 6) A "real bank" is limited on its assets to liabilities ratio. So they previously could only make so many risky loans before they used up their ratio. So it was self limiting. Once they could sell the loans off, they could keep on selling new loans, provided they had a place to sell them. Fannie Mae was that place, so as long Fannie Mae kept buying, the banks kept selling. 7) The "house of cards" worked fine so long as real estate was always appreciating. Bad dept, if you could keep it on life support for a few years, became good debt because the value of the property appreciated by 10%. If you had to foreclose, the house would no longer be upside down. So the "risk window" for a bad 30 year mortgage was really only 5 years... after that, the bank could forclose and get every penny back. 8) In your mortgage, the contract says that your house is the only asset at risk. So if you walk, and let them foreclose, they can trash your credit rating, but thats it. They can't force you into bankruptcy or garnish wages. So clearly Fannie Mae was one of the roots of this mess. They (as warned) had way too much bad debt relative to assets. When real estate started going flat, then declining in value, they were toast. A bank should have known better, real estate can't always appreciate. And clearly the whole sub prime market, which was taking tons of risk, then leveraging that risk to make it even more risky, is at blame. They deserve the pummeling they got, but they seem to have sucked some businesses that should have known better into their tar pit. I felt a little better after talking to him. I think there is still plenty of pain coming as fundamentally broken things are finally visibly broken. But I don't think we are headed to a depression... there is plenty of money out there, so if you have a solid plan you can still make things happen. | ||
| Jaimec |
You know what? I think an indepth study of "Murphy's Law" ought to be part of ANY degree in business. It seems like the people controlling the money don't seem to understand this fundamental principle of life. |
