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Nevco1
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 12:38 pm: | 
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Question...high speed vs low speed, aren't the skills pretty much the same with the exception of things happening a whole lot quicker? |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 12:50 pm: |
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Do any States have actual "on road" motorcycle testing like they do (er, maybe did) for cars?
If yes, how do they do it
Right here in WI. At least they used to, dont know if they still do.
You would be issued an earpiece & the tester would be in a car with the microphone & he would follow you & instruct on when & where to turn. Also at 1 point you would have to do an emergency stop without locking up the tires & would also have to execute a u-turn on a narrow street without putting your feet down.
Much better test than the old parking lot & cones deal. |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 12:55 pm: |
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Mike, in your scenarios you have a Busa & a 900RR. The case we have made is that with a tiered system the riders would have several years of experience under their belts before they would even be on such a bike. On a lower hp bike the rider obviously isnt going to be going as fast or taking as many chances. |
Nevco1
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 01:09 pm: |
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Dyna...You Commie Pinko Kid!!!
We are trying to explore ways of correcting the situation without implementing tiered licensing or any other restrictive legislation.
PS: Looks like today's Union vote just may cause Harley to move it's transmission operations elsewhere. You know, either a non-union US plant or offshore. Keep your eye on the news. The vote also effects benefits for new and retired workers. Tis the F***ing you get.... |
Bomber
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 01:12 pm: |
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bill . . .tell us more regardin the union vote, please! |
Mikej
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 01:16 pm: |
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Harley Union voting:
http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/nov03/184298.asp
http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/nov03/184298.asp?format=print
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Nevco1
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 01:17 pm: |
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Three local HD plants shut down this morning so 1679 (prox) union members could vote at Waukesha County Fair Grounds. Is culmination of almost two years of rumors about potential massive (2,000 prox) layoff after the 100th.
HD says it needs to reduce costs in transmission operation and asked union to make proposals to keep the jobs here. Will know more later today. The news should be buzzing real soon and the HD employee bars should be a real hot bed tonight! |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 01:19 pm: |
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PS: Looks like today's Union vote just may cause Harley to move it's transmission operations elsewhere. You know, either a non-union US plant or offshore.
The name of the game is increased profits for the shareholders. If HD can maximize that by moving to Brazil or whereever, than you can bet they will. So much for buying american. |
Mikej
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 01:22 pm: |
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Dyna,
Oh I don't know about that. I had an older Yamaha 180 2-stroke twin that I zipped around the local canyons and hills on in SoCalif. Shall we say that while raw HP was not there to lift the front wheel, the speeds especially in corners was more than sufficient to cause occasional cause for concern. Fun little bike, but not very good on the freeway into a headwind up any sort of hill. But it did corner relatively well and had excellent lean angle clearances. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 01:24 pm: |
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that's one of the effects of being a publically-owned company . . . .
H-Ds are already pretty much "world bikes" already . . . although I hope the jobs stay local, the whole "buy american" thing is pretty skewed already when it comes to buying an HD product |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 01:27 pm: |
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If they do lose 2000 jobs, I wonder how many folks will still be waving the HD flag?
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Nevco1
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 01:33 pm: |
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Early rumors indicated jobs would be lost here and new jobs created in York and KC. Which is why I teased about PA Pork and KC Kattle a few months back in lieu of the Milwaukee Hog. |
Nevco1
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 01:34 pm: |
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Big deal...."The Beer that made Milwaukee Famous" ain't made here anymore either. LOL |
Ezblast
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 01:38 pm: |
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Back to topic - problem is some type of educational system should be in place to help impart the skills needed to ride safely at speed. I don't know how it is now days, but when I tested here in Cali we even did a brief freeway stint as part of the test for my auto driver's license. So perhaps a modified MSF course with higher speed (50 mph around there) manuvering also as a part of the class, and perhaps making the msf class manditory for the riding of a motorcycle, as well as testing for those skills at higher speed as well.
GT - JBOTDS! EZ |
Nevco1
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 01:48 pm: |
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Hey Ez...CA DMV should do it like the news helicopters do on the high speed chases in LA LA LAND. Real world test, eh? LOL |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 04:20 pm: |
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TX uses road tests for moto licensure. You have to bring a car and driver with you, the policeman/woman rides with your car driver behind you and instructs where to turn via signaling and horn beeping. |
Nevco1
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 04:32 pm: |
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Thanks Blake. The procedure sounds interesting. Not to mention, pretty intuitive for insuring the rider had a good grasp on what is going on all around.
Hey all, how about the other States? Let's hear from you. |
Nevco1
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 08:17 am: |
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Harley Union Update...
Looks like the Union voted to keep the jobs here in Milwaukee. Everyone seemed pleased and relieved last night. Details at:
http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/nov03/184861.asp |
Mikej
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 09:46 am: |
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They didn't vote to keep jobs here, they voted to accept benefit cost concessions and health insurance cost increases. The corporation told them to do this or "risk" loosing jobs. Pure stud poker and an adversarial stake has now been placed in the ground changing the unified stratification of management/investors/union. Tranny jobs can still go away, and with the increased influx of funds to upgrade manufacturing tooling and equipment there will have to be some jobs lost due to increased productivity efficiencies. Additionally there was little mentioned about if other aspects of local manufacturing might be moved out or elsewhere. When the budget gets tightened around February I believe we'll see a black helium balloon set loose from all three local manufacturing plants as well as the impending small flume of white smoke that will be eminating from the tiny smokestack from the inner sanctum of Juneau Avenue from behind the double-closed doors in an elevated exclusive private meeting of strategy and planning upper lever managers and advisors deemed with defining future dreams and transitions of future trends and traditions and life style shifts in demography.
2004 may bring many a major surprise or three. Or not. Don't know. Time will tell. But times are a changin' and that simple fact is just starting to become well known.
With all that said, riddle me this: why do the comments and reports all uniformly state that the changes will help the younger employees? At the local worker's watering holes, who looked happy, who looked lost, who were looking through empty eyes. There is more that was discussed than is being spoken, that much I know to be true. Not all that was said was said at Waukesha yesterday. Not all that was said will be known.
Done is done, time to move on. The rest of us will see what will be with the dawn of the new sunrise sometime soon.
As always, YMMV, carry on.
This has nothing to do with tierd licensing and I don't care. Yesterday's vote was not a good day. I could be wrong and hopefully am. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 09:58 am: |
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Mike, while I don't entirely disagree with most of your points (and am in complete agreement with your assessment of more changes down the road), the changes/votes/threats are all part of working for a publically-held company that finds itself embarking on what are for many, new waters . . . HD has been rocky before, and, no doubt, will be again . . .
the long and short of it is that no one working at HD is an indentured servant -- employment is a two way street, a agreement between equals. just like companies fire/layoff employees, employees fire their employers daily . . . .. as I opine to colleagues at MY radpily changing workplace, ya vote with your feet every day ya come to work, or don't, for that matter . . .. .
business is cold-heart, most of the time (with exceptions like the guy that first manufactured polar-fleece), and not a social program (although most employers DO consider the social implications of their decisions)
it would be great to see an employer/investor/employee partnership that was able to look after the needs of all three communities equally . . . .I'm not sure that's possible, given human nature, and the history of the labor movement in this country (said history including not only labor, but capital, as well)
I'm starting to ramble, again . . .. . .
more coffee is in order, I'm thinkin |
Mikej
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 11:15 am: |
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Yep, agreed. I'm just basically saying that the old corporate culture at Harley is now changing. I've seen similar shifts at other companies where I've worked. They go from happy employees who feel that they are a part of the company, and then become "just employees" with no loyalty to the corporation because the corporation has no functional loyalty to them.
Foot votin' is an age old tradition, and perhaps is why I've never been with any company for more than 5.5 years in my life.
And, yeah, my cup is kind of empty again too.
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Nevco1
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 12:30 pm: |
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Vendors and employees seemed relieved as it was felt that by voting in the concessions that they would retain jobs here. The concept of continued employment was the benefit to the younger workers. If this is a feeling of false security...well WTF, won't be the first time. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 12:32 pm: |
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corp culture at H-D has changed numerous times in the last 25 years . . . .
agree with all your points, Mike . .. . my longevity at any one employer is remarkable similar to yours . . . . .
I tell folks that I work for Bomber, Inc, who foarms out my skills to (fill in the name of the emplyer here) for the betterment of the shareholders of Bomber, Inc . .. amkes things eassier to deal with, for me |
Ezblast
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 01:26 pm: |
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Bomber - you sure thats coffee in that cup? - lol - like I'm one to talk.
GT - JBOTDS! EZ |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 03:39 pm: |
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They go from happy employees who feel that they are a part of the company, and then become "just employees" with no loyalty to the corporation because the corporation has no functional loyalty to them.
Foot votin' is an age old tradition, and perhaps is why I've never been with any company for more than 5.5 years in my life.
I hear ya on that. I put in almost 15 years at my job & thought for sure I would be doing the old 25 & out bit. Then suprise suprise one day you go in & they tell you & 45 of your co-workers to hit the streets.
Now I have a pretty decent job, but I sure as hell am not loyal to them. If a better offer comes along Im gone. We are all just numbers to the company & any of us can be exchanged for another or booted out at anytime & the companies now days just dont care.
As far as the HD vote deal goes, thats the first straw in breaking the union. Those workers are paid real well..$23 an hr to start. You can damn well bet HD would love to see those wages drop to the level of the non-union Buell workers who start at $14 an hr.
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