| Author | Message | ||
     Teddagreek |
I found this very Interesting and if true this is BIG.. I saw it on Larry King the other night.. Very Good Read.. He likened This Top Secret Killing program to WWII's Manhattan project.. Cool this like Tom Clancy/Dean Koontz kinda of stuff. Love it.. I wonder what it could be? Its kinda of big brotherish but is a freaking war I'm just curious if this can be used for domestic purposes with out violating privacy.. First person to turn this into a gay political thread is a Salad Tosser WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The dramatic drop in violence in Iraq is due in large part to a secret program the U.S. military has used to kill terrorists, according to a new book by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Bob Woodward. Bob Woodward's book, "The War Within: Secret White House History 2006-2008," came out Monday. The program -- which Woodward compares to the World War II era Manhattan Project that developed the atomic bomb -- must remain secret for now or it would "get people killed," Woodward said Monday on CNN's Larry King Live. "It is a wonderful example of American ingenuity solving a problem in war, as we often have," Woodward said. In "The War Within: Secret White House History 2006-2008," Woodward disclosed the existence of secret operational capabilities developed by the military to locate, target and kill leaders of al Qaeda in Iraq and other insurgent leaders. National security adviser Stephen Hadley, in a written statement reacting to Woodward's book, acknowledged the new strategy. Yet he disputed Woodward's conclusion that the "surge" of 30,000 U.S. troops into Iraq was not the primary reason for the decline in violent attacks. "It was the surge that provided more resources and a security context to support newly developed techniques and operations," Hadley wrote. Woodward, associate editor of the Washington Post, wrote that along with the surge and the new covert tactics, two other factors helped reduce the violence.Video Watch Bob Woodward explain the strategy » One was the decision of militant cleric Muqtada al-Sadr to order a cease-fire by his Mehdi Army. The other was the "Anbar Awakening" movement that saw Sunni tribes aligning with U.S. troops to battle al Qaeda in Iraq. Woodward told Larry King that while there is a debate over how much credit the new secret operations should get for the drop in violence, he concluded it "accounts for a good portion." "I would somewhat compare it to the Manhattan Project in World War II," he said "It's a ski slope right down in a matter of months, cutting the violence in half. This isn't going to happen with the bunch of joint security stations or the surge." The top secret operations, he said, will "some day in history ... be described to people's amazement." While he would not reveal the details, Woodward said the terrorists who have been targeted were already aware of the capabilities. advertisement "The enemy has a heads up because they've been getting wiped out and a lot of them have been killed," he said. "It's not news to them. "If you were a member of al Qaeda or the resistance or some extremist militia, you would be wise to get your rear end out of town," Woodward said. "It is very dangerous." } | ||
| Seanp |
Are we talking about sanctioned assassinations? If so, I'm not really sure how I feel about that. I'd rather terrorists die than my friends, but at the same time, I think there are too many ways it could be ... mutated into something much worse. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"It's not news to them." Then maybe they can tell us what the hell it is. I hate secrets, especially when, aparently, the enemy already knows what that secret is. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
A secret is as a secret does, and disinformation and paranoia is usually a part of keeping those secrets. Put your aluminum foil helmets on and remember that 17 of the 19 9/11 terrorists were from middle class families from Saudi. | ||
| Teddagreek |
A lot of the first insurgents in Iraq where college students from other countries. Not exactly my Idea of spring break..  When we first hit Iraq they for the most part they had no Idea we could see in the Dark with NVG's.. Like shooting fish in a barrel, like any prey they adapted by covering themselves with blankets and other materials.. Is this being done monitoring communications or is it really something more. Comparing to the Manhattan project is pretty big. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I think the Army was showing "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle" on big screens mounted to the back of HumVees. Whoever came out of their huts to watch it got blasted. (Message edited by Buellinachinashop on September 09, 2008) | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
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| Ft_bstrd |
"Are you a terrorist?". Bang. That's a secret? | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
The Army fed everybody McDonald's Double 1/4lber XTra Value Meals. They died from slow artery poisoning. Sneaky bastards. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
It can't be from Big Macs'. I heard on my local news this morning that some dude from Fond du Loc ?? , Wisconsin has ate one Big Mac everyday for the last 35 years. | ||
| Thumper74 |
I say yell 'Lynard Skynard' and if they don't understand, waste'em | ||
| Hr_puffinstuff |
Fon du Lac...Lake of the Torches, named by french explorers after seeing natives fish on the lake, at night, by the light of many torches. i have a plan to end the war on terror, but i'm not sure how well it would go over. at the risk of being considered one sick puppy, i'm going to go ahead and post it. PETA and the SPCA will pitch a fit, and most of you will think i'm joking. but even my wife (who thinks i'm nuts) had to admit it might work. and as a bonus, the american farmer will make a buck on the deal. the British developed a weapon during the invasion of Iraq that i thought was brilliant, and my idea is a variation on that weapon. when the Iraqi army started placing tanks and artillery next to schools and hospitals, using standard munitions became impossible, due to the threat of collateral damage. the Brits came up with a 5,000-lb block of concrete, roughly the size of a VW microbus, with a laser guidance system. at 200mph, from 200ft in the air, it will reduce an Iraqi tank to about 5 inches tall, with no explosion. in fact, any blast created was muffled by the massive amount of concrete. like i said...brilliant! now, take into consideration the fact that we are fighting against FANATICS. these folks are ready to die, secure in their knowledge of going straight to Allah, 72 virgins and all.....unless they are "unclean" when they die. there are a variety of ways to become "unclean", but i'm going to stick w/ the one that worked for Sir Lawrence of Arabia. so, here's the idea. Laser-guided pig bombs. (i'll give you a second to stop laughing) i know this sounds insane, but how many of these people would still be willing to die if they were going to be sent to hell? Sir Lawrence used this little fact to end violence between warlords by killing a few of them, and placing their bodies where they would be found, wrapped in the carcass of a pig. got their attention pretty quick, from what i understand. suddenly, everyone wanted to negotiate. my best guess is about 1,000 to 1,500 pigs, and then an end to the war on terrorism. ok, go nuts.... | ||
| Tmc |
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| Midknyte |
It works on their freakish level. I like it! | ||
| Slaughter |
The whole pig thing was just another urban legend... though it is funny in its own way. The whole Woodward thing is neither here nor there. It's either that he's been fed "disinformation" or he's got a TON of people on the way to Leavenworth if any of his sources are found out. All this is just fantasy stuff from where we are sitting in the cheap seats - but is STILL more interesting than football (masculine manly men among manly men in tights). | ||
| Bosh |
How could you steer the pigs? Their flailing legs on the way down would surely conflict with the input from the laser guidance system.  | ||
| Hughlysses |
The whole pig thing was just another urban legend... though it is funny in its own way. I think that's another version of this same legend, not true according to Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.asp | ||
| Bosh |
Just the fact that no one does it (pig gut thing) is testament to how repulsive the idea is to Muslims, and politically incorrect to everyone else. Personally, I think it would work more often than not. | ||
| Hr_puffinstuff |
i guess it would have to be a laser targeting deal, more than guidance. paint the bad guys with the laser, drop the pigs on time. i first heard the idea in an e-mail, but the British block of 'crete got me thinking about it. i don't think the aerodynamics of the pig would matter much if you just went with a carpet-bombing technique, rather than specific targeting. more $$$ for the pig farmer, too is there some reason it WOULDN'T work?? | ||
| Buellerthanyou |
Somebody call Pink Floyd! They had this all worked out back in the 70's:   'Course I think they meant to write "Camus Rules", since he is the author of "The Stranger"  HellBuelly J "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." --M2hatma Gandhi" | ||
| Cityxslicker |
We have 6.2 million people in prison, doing nothing but watching cable tv, playing wii, and 'learning' new job skills. Air drop em in. Turn them loose on the Middle east. Take what you want, see you in five years. Those that make it 5 years get land in Alaska (the remote stuff) I have a sincere feeling that it would be a very different landscape in those following years. Our troops come home, we keep the oil, our prisons are empty and domestic crime is way down. Want to kill a criminal? Send a Criminal, Eh, it worked for Vin Diesel  | ||
| Zane |
Cityxslicker, Heck, it worked in Miami in the early 80's. Does anyone remember the Mariel Boatlift? It changed the face of Miami overnight. Along with all the real refuges, Castro emptied his prisons and asylums dumping a ton of serious criminals and mentally ill people on us. Crime in Miami skyrocketed and South Florida has never been the same. Let's pass the favor on and dump all our bad guys on the Iraqis and Iranians. | ||
| Swordsman |
I just found this... looks like the US "secret operation" got snagged on a night vision camera...  ~SM | ||
| B00stzx3 |
And we couldn't do this to Saddam Hussein and saved ourselves alotta trouble why? And Bin Laden, Kadafi, Kim Jong, Alemanhandjob? | ||
| Dwardo |
I've been wondering for years about how many pork chops will fit into a B-52 bomb bay. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
when the Iraqi army started placing tanks and artillery next to schools and hospitals, using standard munitions became impossible, due to the threat of collateral damage. the Brits came up with a 5,000-lb block of concrete, roughly the size of a VW microbus, with a laser guidance system. at 200mph, from 200ft in the air, it will reduce an Iraqi tank to about 5 inches tall, with no explosion. in fact, any blast created was muffled by the massive amount of concrete. like i said...brilliant! Do you have any further info? I'm having a hard time visualizing getting a block of concrete to drop accurately on target without some serious engineering. | ||
| Bandm |
This gets my vote for the new "Top Secret Killing Program" New Air Force Weapon Makes Combat Debut in Iraq By Air Force Staff Sgt. Don Branum Special to American Forces Press Service JOINT BASE BALAD, Iraq, Aug. 28, 2008 – Coalition air forces in Iraq unleashed a new precision-guided weapon against enemy forces Aug. 12 when two F-16 Fighting Falcon pilots with the 77th Expeditionary Fighter Squadron here executed the first combat employment of a GBU-54 Laser Joint Direct Attack Munition against a moving enemy vehicle in Diyala province. Air Force Staff Sgts. Michael Jackson (left) and Anthony Bagen align a 500-pound GBU-54 Laser Joint Direct Attack Munition before connecting it to an F-16 Fighting Falcon at Joint Base Balad, Iraq, Aug. 14, 2008. F-16 pilots with the 77th Expeditionary Fighter Squadron used the new weapon for the first time in combat Aug. 12 against a moving enemy vehichle in Diyala province. The GBU-54 is the Air Force's newest 500-pound precision weapon, equipped with a targeting system that uses a combination of GPS and laser guidance to accurately engage and destroy moving targets. "This employment first represents a great step in our Air Force's ability to deliver precise effects across the spectrum of combat," Air Force Lt. Gen. Gary L. North, U.S. Air Forces Central commander, said. "The first combat employment of this weapon is the validation of the exacting hard work of an entire team of professionals who developed, tested and fielded this weapon on an extremely short timeline, based on an urgent needs request we established in the combat zone." When the GBU-54 was identified as an urgent operational need in early 2007, the Air Force completed its development and testing cycle in less than 17 months, fielding it aboard 332nd Air Expeditionary Wing aircraft in May. "We have consistently used precision-guided weapons to engage stationary threats with superb combat effects," Air Force Brig. Gen. Brian T. Bishop, 332nd AEW commander, said. "This weapon allows our combat pilots to engage a broad range of moving targets with dramatically increased capabilities, and it increases our ability to strike the enemy throughout a much, much broader engagement envelope." Teamwork in all aspects, from development to employment, was crucial, North said. "From the experts in our Air Force Materiel Command who shaped our requirements, then developed, tested and fielded the weapon, to our aircraft maintainers, our munitions airmen, and weapons loaders and everyone in between, they made the operational employment of this weapon possible,” North said. On Aug. 12, the joint terminal attack controller’s team worked with the ground unit commander to ensure all criteria were met for the weapon’s first combat delivery, the general said. “And finally, our F-16 pilot accurately and precisely delivered and guided the weapon to desired weapons effects, the disabling and destruction of an enemy vehicle and personnel," he added. http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?i d=50949 I still like the concrete bomb basically a 2000LB laser guided rock that can smash a tank without touching the school or mosgue the Iraqi’s parked it next to. Ferris the 5000# version is the 2130-kg GBU-28B/B, they are released at high altitude from 15 miles away. Can you say Kinetic Energy! http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairw/articles/2 0050915.aspx Why Concrete Filled Bombs are Useful September 15, 2005 One of the strangest, and most useful, bombs employed in Iraq has been the concrete filled smart bomb (laser guided or JDAM). Why deliver a 500 pound bomb filled with concrete instead of explosives? You do that if you want to do some damage, but not a lot. Concrete JDAMs were first used in the 1990s to destroy anti-aircraft guns, radars and missiles that Saddam Hussein placed in residential areas. He believed that the Americans would not attack these weapons, for fear of hurting nearby civilians. But it turned out that a laser, or satellite (JDAM) guided concrete smart bomb could take out the air-defense weapons without hurting nearby civilians. The concrete bombs come in various sizes (500, 1,000 and 2,000 pounds), but the new 500 pound JDAM has become a favorite when a concrete version is required. The official says non-exploding weapons reduce the chance that fires or flying debris will hurt Iraqi civilians. | ||
| Hr_puffinstuff |
TY Bandm i've seen video of this thing in action, and it is devastating if i remember right, it was first dropped by British Tornado fighter/bombers someone call Oscar Meyer, and see if they're up for making munitions i just want the war to end... ...in victory | ||
| Blake |
"Are we talking about sanctioned assassinations? If so, I'm not really sure how I feel about that."  Let me get this straight, some people are unsure about killing the enemy in a war? Do we have to let them shoot at us first? Targeting (yes, this means to kill; it's a war) key enemy personnel wouldn't be anything new. I'd reckon that would be somewhere in Tactics of Warfare 101. SWAT teams do the same when required. I'm imagining something more along the lines of cockroach bait. Remember the old Raid pesticide commercials? Or maybe something cell-phone related? | ||
| Seanp |
Field Manual 27-10 states: 31. Assassination and Outlawry HR provides: It is especially forbidden * * * to kill or wound treacherously individuals belonging to the hostile nation or army. (HR, art. 23, par. (b).) This article is construed as prohibiting assassination, proscription, or outlawry of an enemy, or putting a price upon an enemy's head, as well as offering a reward for an enemy "dead or alive". It does not, however, preclude attacks on individual soldiers or officers of the enemy whether in the zone of hostilities, occupied territory, or elsewhere. Yes Blake, I know a bit about war, and about the rules that guide it. As for "Tactics of Warfare 101", I've had 101, 102, 201, 202, and on and on. "Targeting key enemy personnel" by shooting at the APC with all the antennas, or aiming for the tent with the guard out front when you're launching a hellfire is not assassination. Even using snipers to shoot enemy officers is not assassination. Assassination would be sending someone out to kill one specific person, or "putting a price upon an enemy's head" as FM 27-10 states. I'm perfectly fine with targeting personnel. In fact, as I mentioned in my first post, I'd rather some terrorist die than more of my friends. I'm not fine with sending out death squads to kill people. Once you start doing that and other activities outside the realm of sanctioned, legal warfare, you lose legitimacy. See the French in Algeria, the British in Kenya, and many other examples of how that may tactically win a war, but strategically lose the overall fight. (Message edited by seanp on September 11, 2008) (Message edited by seanp on September 11, 2008) |
