| Author | Message | ||
     Tm74 |
Russia May Focus on Pro-U.S. Ukraine After Georgia | ||
| Tramp |
So, now, suddenly, our present administration is sending AID to the Georgian Aggressors? How about sending some AID to AMERICANS }losing their homes and trying to pay for gas? The Iraqis have a nice budget surplus, thanks to AID provided by the American taxpayer, and now the American taxpayers will be paying for the Georgians. News flash: We don't HAVE the money to do this, just as we haven't the troops with which to play world cop. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080813/ap_on_re_eu/ge orgia_russia | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Very interesting. This is getting ugly for sure. Iraq and Iran receive support from Russia in much the same way that Ukraine and Georgia receive support from the US. China gets to watch while we duke it out again. I'd say it sounds like the blockade is an attempt to keep Israel from doing anything "rash". The main purpose of the blockade, to stop shipments of benzine for refinement of oil. Who is Iran's largest oil buyer? It appears that it isn't France or the UK. I can't imagine them working actively to halt refining of the oil they depend on. This appears to be shaping up to the big "Oil Showdown" everyone has been dreading. | ||
| Tramp |
Ummm... Ft_bstrd: Russia, unlike America, has great wealth, presently, and it's people enjoy a very high standard of living, without any enormous national debt being carried by China. Don't underestimate Western Europe's ability to walk away from oil dependence, either. This has nothing to do with Israel, this same scene would be unfolding if Israel never existed. It's about oil for Mother Russia, before the onset of another long, dostoyevsky-esque Winter... | ||
| Tramp |
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| Tm74 |
Regardless, It will be interesting to see how this pans out. I don't think it was expected that Russia was going to take any shit from us and it's obvious they aren't ••••••• around. We've been nosing around in their back yard for a while now. No favors for us. There isn't anything we can do about it anyway. Superpower indeed. (this site has profanity filters, didn't know that.) | ||
| Tramp |
I miss my flat in St. Petersburg....  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Russia, unlike America, has great wealth, presently, and it's people enjoy a very high standard of living, without any enormous national debt being carried by China. Agreed completely. Odd that we find ourselves in this place. Makes you wonder if Afghanistan 1980 was worth it. | ||
| Tramp |
If you ever have the chance to be 'cuffed by a female member of Russia's far-right "Cossack" party, I highly recommend the experience  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
She has tiny feet. | ||
| Tramp |
" Agreed completely. Odd that we find ourselves in this place. Makes you wonder if Afghanistan 1980 was worth it."  Nothing at all odd about this to many of us. i was vociferously opposed to this expensive Iraq engagement from day one, primarily for economic reasons. Do you know what this "war" has cost us in dollars, let alone in lives of American service personnel? The most effective way to take down an empire that outguns you is by making it empty its bank account. "Shock and Awe", my a$s. (Message edited by tramp on August 13, 2008) | ||
| Tramp |
You know what they say about Cossack women with tiny feet, right? tiny shoes, comrade.... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
" " My point being that had we not intervened in Afghanistan in 1980, Russia would more than likely have scored merely another "Stan" for the collection, Al Qaeda would more than likely not have existed or would have been greatly diminished in strength, 9/11 would more than likely not have occurred, and we'd more than likely not be in Iraq. You find this wrongful thinking on my part? | ||
| Tramp |
Please point out where I stated or implied 'wrongful thinking'. If it weren't Al Quaida, it would have been another anti-zionist cult. ...take your pick. While it's true that US advisory staff trained them, i think that point's a tad overplayed by the American left, in the case of Al Qauida. they would have figured out that taking flight lessons was a good idea, either way. Bin laden's wealth barely felt the loss of a few million for airfare to the US, job placement, housing & a few hundred man-hours at Flight Safety. Bin laden could have, as easily, sent palestinians there, and his family's wealth preexisted the US advisory presence in Afghanistan | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
There was no implication of "wrongful thinking" other than the . I didn't take offense. Just asking if you thought my thinking was off. Honestly, when I ask I really want to hear your (or other's) perspective. I don't think the training meant that much. The Stingers were the most important part. The real meaningful part was that they were ALIVE when we left. I doubt that the Russians would have left any fighters breathing when they were done. I don't know that Bin Laden would still be breathing either. The Afghanis were taking a pretty serious shelacking prior to the Russian loss of air superiority. (Message edited by FT_BSTRD on August 13, 2008) | ||
| Tm74 |
So what your saying Tramp is that Osama Bin Laden is hiding in St. Petersburg?   | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Bin Laden would never wear that hat. | ||
| Thumper74 |
From what I read, I understood that Georgia attacked Russia first. So we are supporting the agressor in this case, right? | ||
| Tm74 |
That's the really short version but yup, we're supporting them. Georgia's on our "team." It's expected I guess but I don't blame Russia for steam rolling over them(if the reports are true). I really wish we would have shut up about it and let Russia do it's thing. | ||
| Tramp |
Imagine the outrage we'd all feel, as patriots, if, say- Mexico decided to take back the Alamo, Our brave National Guard ran them halfway back to Mexico City... * * and Russia suddenly began sending the Mexicans aid, after denouncing our defense of our Alamo? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Russia's been spoiling for an opportunity to poke the US in the eye. I doubt they are going to call off the dogs until Georgia cries uncle. | ||
| Thumper74 |
It seems that with the Marines training the Georgian military in special tactics, as well as reports of American 'mercenaries' over there that 'we' may have had a hand in this as a diversionary tactic... | ||
| Tramp |
Why should they call off any dogs, at all? The US has proven, unfortunately, that it's miltary might can't even neutralize a goddam third-world shithole like Iraq. Further, our economic straits are no secret to anyone, at all. What does Mother Russia have to fear from the superpower that's been wasting away, economically, for 5 years, like Ivan goddam Ilyich? Good thing we sapped our economy and our military dry by attacking some bumfhuck little hole like Iraq. Hey- Most of America's riveted to American Idol, anyway, so they'll never notice the regime change when Putin rides into St. Louis, Missouri. I'll be the nut up on the arch, with the Match-grade Rem. w/ the leupold and a yen for some fresh chest-borscht  | ||
| Tramp |
On the nose, Thumper. evidently you missed my earlier post discussing just such a scenario. | ||
| Thumper74 |
I read every post, or so I thought. Yours may have influenced my 'deduction'. I've spent the last few hours reading about this conflict, the Armada in the Persian Gulf, etc. Interestingly enough, I'm not finding ANYTHING domestically about the Armada... Which would lead me to believe that someone is pulling the wool over our eyes... Thumper74 Seriously stocking up on non-perishables, Vegemite, etc to prepare for when I survive the fallout and biological warfare | ||
| Tramp |
Biological warfare and nukes won't be necessary to invade our soil. ...hacking into the networks with a promising inside look at Jamie Lynn Spears' birthmark that resembles the crosses on Calvary will ensure that every able-bodied American is at home, glued to their television, while Karl Rove embraces Putin in an effort to please a new master. | ||
| Tramp |
I'd not be the least bit shocked to find that Rove is behind convincing the present admin. to compel Georgia to invade Ossetia, so as to create a preamble for a good, strong rattling of GOP sabres in a last-ditch effort to bring the country back to that United We stand" mantra so skillfully employed to empty our pockets for us. | ||
| Madduck |
It would be nice if the USA would get back to funding our DoD like JFK did, roughly 25% of budget. With that kind of money we could run 20 Iraq wars. The wars we are in are no where near bleeding us dry. Our idiot leaders are pissing the federal treasury away on programs that should be carried out by individuals and the states. National defense is clearly the province of the federal government. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
We're in agreement on many of those points -- especially the level of apathy I see/hear in the US. I don't think we have any issues with our military might as our military is very mighty. We do lack the political will to use our forces -- political correctness, corrupt & running for re-election pols, no freaking backbone, "pass the global test," multitudes of reasons. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
We don't HAVE the money to do this, just as we haven't the troops with which to play world cop. Our government has been running a deficit since it's inception. There are over 300 million people living in the U.S. which is more then enough for our military needs. |
