| Author | Message | ||
     Bob_thompson |
I am wondering about the recommended oil change procedures listed in most owners manuals for most street driven vehicles. Most recommend getting the oil hot or at least warm by running the engine for a certain amount of time, shutting down and carefully draining the warm/hot oil. Now this does not seem to use common sense. I like to drain the oil after setting all night and insure all the contaminated oil, depending on time between changes is in the pan/sump. I believe the reason we use detergent oil is to clean and "suspend" the contaminants in the oil. Why then, by most mfgr's recommendations, would we want to send all those contaminants back through the engine just before draining the oil? This just does not seem right. I used to think it was to "thin" the heavy oils we used to use but not now with 15-50, 10-40, 5-30 and even 0-30. I understand that on my M2 some oil remains, as much as 1/2 qt. in the sump, with a bad check valve, after a few weeks, so I drain the next morning after a ride with 98% of the oil back in the oil tank. Not necessary on most engines with self contained oil. Where am I going wrong? I usually side with the manufacturers and their engineers but not on this one. Naturally, I'd like others opinions on this. Bob | ||
| Stevedplumber |
i usually change my oil after the bike has been sitting. same thing with my vehicles. figuring all the bad contaminates have had a chance to settle down near the drain plug. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Hot oil is going to drain better, even if the weight rating is faily low. The film of oil that sticks to everything will be thinner when the oil is hotter. You can check this yourself quite graphically by dipping a screwdriver in cold oil, and then doing the same thing in hot oil. Less oil sticks to the metal. If the screwdriver itself was heated (like the inside of an engine that's been running) it would even be even easier to see. In the grand scheme of things, I doubt it makes a huge difference either way. It makes better sense to run the engine (at least a little) to evacuate the sump as much as possible before you drain the oil bag. No telling how much drains back into the sump overnight on a tuber. If you really want to get the very last bit of oil out of the sump, drop the oil pump and drain what little oil remains from there. I think this drain-back issure more to do with oil draining back through the oil-pump from the oil bag (on a tuber) than it does the checkball behind the filter adapter. Do XB's 'wet sump' when left sitting for a long time like tubers do? | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Dump out a quart of cold oil and look in the bottom of the jug...all kinds of slime/crud in there that is probably additives(?)..........so much for the suspension thing as far as sitting around. Now shake up a quart of oil and dump it out......it will be clean in the bottom of the jug. Change your oil hot to get everything in suspension. Cold oil won't drain worth a crap and will leave a lot of oil behind that is clinging to the cold engine surfaces. Hot oil will practically evacuate all of it's "cling factor" into the drain pan. Shake your new oil jugs to get all the additives mixed in with the oil. In the big picture it probably doesn't matter. Your gonna over haul your engine sooner or later, regardless of "how" you change your oil. | ||
| Azxb9r |
It also helps to burn off any condensation, and put any particles into suspension so that they can come out with the oil. | ||
| Pwnzor |
I don't know, but I've been told... Warm oil comes out faster, and so it's the method they use at the dealership to get the job done more quickly, even though they are still charging you an arm and a leg. I change my oil cold, and I let it sit and drain for at least an hour. Then I crank the motor for a few seconds and more oil pumps out. Never had a problem this way, and my oil is always nice and clear when it comes out. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
All I know is that you should make sure to put the drain plug back in BEFORE you begin to fill. | ||
| Djkaplan |
"Then I crank the motor for a few seconds and more oil pumps out." I'm sure more than one person is going to think you're crazy for doing this, but a roller bearing engine probably won't even notice a few seconds running with no oil pressure. This would not be true for a plain bearing engine however. Me... I just drain and refill. Cold sometimes, but hot mostly. Just out of habit, I always prefill the filter as much as I can, but I doubt the bike cares about that. Makes a lot more sense to prefill filters on your plain bearing car engine though. Oh, and if you use the long Dyna filter on a tuber, you can poke a little hole in it and let the filter drain before you remove it. The filter is long enough to where the draining oil misses the cases with the bike on the sidestand. It keeps the mess down quite a bit and is worth what little effort it takes to do. I do this with all filters I change, btw. Works really good in my cars and truck. | ||
| Azxb9r |
The really important thing is that you do change the oil, either method is way better than not changing it at all. For the record, I change it hot. | ||
| Hexangler |
+1 Ft_bstrd You only make that mistake once! Hex | ||
| Djkaplan |
Uh... yeah.  | ||
| Aesquire |
Hot oil flows out better, but hurts more. ( Someday I will be graceful enough not to touch a hot pipe. Or spill hot oil, someday. ) The crankcase can fill overnight, if some grit gets in the check valve. Best way seems to be run it up for a short time, either before riding, or after a ride & letting it cool enough to work on, just before pulling the drain plug. I pull the plug wires & crank it, very briefly, to squirt out the most oil I can. I also only check the oil after a ride. If it was fine last time I rode, & there is no puddle, checking before starting just tells you how much has drained into the sump overnight, sorta. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Good discussion guys. I like Just_ziptab's idea of running enough to get the contaminants BACK into suspension and the oil somewhat thinner to drain faster taking the bad things with it. Good idea my friend. I would think you would not have to get it too hot as just after a ride but at least to operating temps. I believe I will be changing my procedure somewhat. Thanks guys. Bob | ||
| Etennuly |
It doesn't make a bit of difference how you change the oil if you use the factory SM spec on tightening the oil plug! "I'm tell'n ya Cap'n......she jesss whuon't take it!" Wholly crap! According to spell checker the only misspelled word there is "jesss"!? Even "whuon't" is a word!? | ||
| Glitch |
I usually change it hot, mainly because I just got back from the store picking up the supplies needed to do the job. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
The key is written in the first post... Oil is made to suspend the particles. If you let it sit overnight, the bad deposits will settle where ever they are (throughout the entire motor) and when you drain the oil, much of the bad deposits are still settled throughout the motor. By running the motor, the deposits are lifted, and suspended in the oil, so when you drain the oil, they come out with it! | ||
| Jackbequick |
I like to do it after a long ride, at least an hour or so, to get as much of the bad juju as possible in suspension and out with the bad oil. I would not skip the service manual's step of priming a new filter with four ounces oil before mounting. The short filters will take almost six ounces without spilling any when mounted if on the side stand. The oil pump on XL engines drains down to the cam chest and sump when the engine is not running, the gears are not immersed in standing oil. Having the oil in the filter gets the pump wet quicker, creating a good suction, and getting oil pressure up quickly. Jack | ||
| Alchemy |
Any comments on whether warm Buells drain better on the side stand or held vertical? | ||
| Chasespeed |
Any comments on whether warm Buells drain better on the side stand or held vertical? Well, my drain hose is located on the left side, on my tuber, so... yeah, drains better on the stand.. Seriously, Getting the engine up to operating temp for about 20 minutes... To burn off as much moisture as possible, and thin the oil out... it will also put the majority of the oil back in the oil bag... Chase | ||
| Just_ziptab |
On most every bike I change oil in, I can lean the bike over full left and then full right and get more oil to drain out. My 175 Honda dumps another 1/4 th cup doing that. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I don't think that going through any of the machinations described above (especially starting the engine with no oil) is going to make a whit of difference to the engine in the long run, but if it makes you feel better, it's worth doing. Old oil ain't poison (actually, it is) but a little of it in fresh oil isn't a disaster especially in light of the fact that most people don't get anywhere near the service life for oil in their bikes. The acids and contaminants of combustion in used oil are much worse for plain bearing engines whose tri-metal bearings are very soft and susceptible to corrosion from used oil. Ball bearings will just laugh at these contaminants and acids (you can hear it sometimes). The important part is to at least change it (at the interval of your choice) and makes sure the drain plug is on securely. Do that and you'll be fine. |
