| Author | Message | ||
     Jimidan |
Looks like an old man's motorcycle... | ||
| Diablobrian |
I for one like the idea of seeing more electronic shifters from the factory! (Saves me from having to do it myself, and I can actually test ride a bike before buying it!) Of course my situation isn't exactly common, but it could entice people that would otherwise never consider a motorcycle (because they are intimidated by the idea of learning to operate a manual transmission) into getting out and riding. | ||
| Pdxs3t |
I think the idea of automatic motorcycles is a great idea! And I agree with Bill and his statement above, "the technology is there" and I say lets use it! Since I started to loose my left arm to a nasty nerve disorder, riding has become more painful each time I ride. I keep hoping by the time I can no longer pull in a clutch, Buell will have a automatic bike in the market place! And if not Buell another bike company that has a bike that I can afford. This new Honda, its a start. Don't know if I would own one, would have to get a look up close and personal first. -Jim | ||
| Spike |
From the link: Maximum Power Output 45 [61] / 7,500 (kW[PS]/rpm) Maximum Torque 64 [6.5] / 6,000 (N·m[kg·m]/rpm) My math gives me ~60hp and ~47ft-lbs. Not terrible numbers for a 680cc twin, just not particularly exciting. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
When you show me a car that can carry 8 people, tow a 37 foot boat, handle like a Lotus and go like a Vette, I'll engage in this argument. Until then, I'll stand by the theory that this is just a law of the universe. that's an, um, odd reply. serious question: do you have recent seat time on anything other than your 12R and your 250 Ninja? closer to the point: have you ever put a Honda VFR thru its paces? i obviously don't have seat time on the new Honda, but i'm betting it'd surprise you how well it does everything (except, perhaps, the changing diapers thing). i'd love to have the opportunity to put it up against your 12R. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
My math gives me ~60hp and ~47ft-lbs. Not terrible numbers for a 680cc twin, just not particularly exciting. hmmmm, not at all what i'd call "lazy." tell ya what: when i get done with that pesky 12R, i'd be happy to have a go at your Ulysses. | ||
| Mikej |
Kind of reminds me of that lowrider cruiser sportbike that car driver/racer was/is working on. | ||
| Xl1200r |
that's an, um, odd reply. serious question: do you have recent seat time on anything other than your 12R and your 250 Ninja? Yes - recent rides include my 12R, a buddy's 12S, my old 1200 Sportster, a BMW R1200S, Kawasaki ZX10R, Suzuki V Strom 1000, Suzuki M109R, Honda VFR800, Honda ST1300 closer to the point: have you ever put a Honda VFR thru its paces? The ride on the VFR was about 20 minutes long... not a serious test ride, but enough to get a feel for the bike. It was my no means slow, I just expected, and would require, more horsepower for that bike. i obviously don't have seat time on the new Honda, but i'm betting it'd surprise you how well it does everything (except, perhaps, the changing diapers thing). Maybe I misspoke in saying it coudln't do anything well. More accurate would be I don't think it would excel at anything. That M109R I rode was a hoot, and I had a blast throwing around some twisty roads - it handled good for a 700 lbs cruiser, but no where near as good as my 12R. i'd love to have the opportunity to put it up against your 12R. To be honest, I would, too! Everything I ride gets compared to my bike just to make sure I'm riding the bike I like most out there. There is nothing out there that I've ridden that's impressed me like my Buell has. P.S. - those power figures sound lazy to me when you consider the bike weighs close to 600 lbs... (Message edited by xl1200r on March 04, 2008) | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
More accurate would be I don't think it would excel at anything. no offense meant, but i respectfully disagree. quite the contrary, looking at the pix and specs, i expect it will do everything well. that's just an opinion, of course, and doesn't make mine any more valid than yours or anyone elses. i've got 35,000 miles on a VFR ('98 model), so know full well what this particular "jack of all trades" bike can do. interesting that you say you expected more from the VFR in the way of horsepower. as memory serves, they put over 100 HP to the ground, and i had mine (will full gear - soft bags, top bag, and tank bag) to an indicated 154. i haven't ridden an M109R, altho i like the looks very much. i would have less expectations regarding it's agility considering its length and weight, but i don't have the seat time on one to know for sure. i'm willing to bet, however, that in the right hands you could keep many sportbike riders honest with one. Jimidan says the new Honda looks like an old man's bike. maybe so. problem is, i'm an old man. FB | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Everything I ride gets compared to my bike just to make sure I'm riding the bike I like most out there. ps: well said.  | ||
| Xl1200r |
Jerry - The latest interation of the VFR makes 109hp at the crank. Again, not a bad number at all, I would just expect a 4 cylinder engine of that displacement and that level of technology and that cost with that weight to make something more like 135-ish hp. Maybe the issue was I had was I had just gotten off of a ZX10R and the comparison was over-evident. Believe me. If my Firebolt wasn't an option, and the 1125R was just a little uglier than it already is, the VFR would probably be what's in my garage. It just isn't good enough to pull me away from my 12R. And while I agree with you that the VFR is a GREAT all-around bike, MANY would disagree. I prefer sportbikes, so an ST1300 as a sport tourer does nothing for me. I'm in the process of engineering a 3-peice hard-bag setup for my Firebolt, turning it into everything I'm looking for in a bike. Maybe I'm just hard to please, who knows. And yes, I compare EVERYTHING to my bike. I came into a little money and wanted to buy a second bike - VFRs, BMWs and S3Ts were all in the running. Problem was, I don't like any of them more than my 12R, so I decided to make the 12R everything I wanted it to be. As for this new Honda doing everything well... maybe I'm just a little more discriminating than most. When I want a good handling bike, I want the most flickable thing out there. When I want to go on 1000/day long rides, I want the the BEST touring bike you can buy. I think this Honda does do one thing VERY well... It stands out. If you want something different than anyone else, this is your bike. It's not a bad bike, in fact I'll concede it will likely be a very good bike. But aything I would want it to do, it woudln't do all that well by my standards. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
The latest interation of the VFR makes 109hp at the crank. the 02/2007 issue of Motorcyclist says 99.1 hp to the ground (based on '02 model). a mere ten-hp difference between crank and rear wheel doesn't sound right... ...of that displacement... the VFR engine is "only" 782 cc. that level of performance from that displacement is amazing. And yes, I compare EVERYTHING to my bike. I came into a little money and wanted to buy a second bike - VFRs, BMWs and S3Ts were all in the running. Problem was, I don't like any of them more than my 12R, so I decided to make the 12R everything I wanted it to be. that's cool, and i respect your opinion. that said, it's fun to spar with folks who make blanket assumptions about the capabilities of a motorcycle they've never ridden, much less one they've never even read a ride report on. | ||
| Leeroy_jenkins |
 | ||
| Slaughter |
HOW MANY people are going to be looking at THAT bike because their needs are driven by horsepower? Geeeez. It's like complaining about Buell's lack of HP compared to (fill in the blank) machine... or complaining about the handling of the Kawi Concours... or complaining about the quarter mile times of the Burgman. Different strokes... sumpin like that. (Message edited by slaughter on March 04, 2008) | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Slaughter, agreed, but my focus on dyno data was in response to Spike's comment Is anyone else reminded of Honda's other attempt at a plastic-clad, scooter-esque concept with a lazy v-twin: the PC800? i don't see anything that leads me to believe that the performance of this bike will be "lazy." FB | ||
| Slaughter |
Jerry - I was more generally responding to others comments about HP on bikes that NEVER had the intention in their design to be any sort of performance machine. (maybe I shoulda read the other posts more closely) - just seems to be a constant argument. A sub-1000cc V-Twin is just NOT an ultimate performance motor - and yes, I include the Ducks in that sweeping generalization. If Ducati wanted performance/HP, they'd get away from just building twins... OH WAIT A MINUTE!!!! :-) | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
| ||
| Reepicheep |
Or complaining that your KLR doesn't seem to do well pickin up chicks! ;) | ||
| Jb2 |
FB1, You might be used or previously owned but you ain't old. Why didn't you tell me that you were stirring it up when you sent that link? Sometimes these Buell owners have so much zeal they forget there are other folks with different set of goals for their own ride. The Honda looks like it has potential. It certainly ain't for me, I want something that looks good covered in mud! JB2 | ||
| Spike |
And prove what, that the bike is capable of moving at respectable pace? Really Ferris, I'm not sure why you're so stirred up here. I've already said I dig the bike, but a 60hp twin is nothing to write home about. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
not stirred up at all, just having a respectful conversation with some/all of you regarding an interesting new motorcycle. i thought my Buell S2 was pretty spiffy performance-wise when i bought it back in '96, not at all "lazy." it was rated at 76 hp at the crank. don't know what the "to the ground" number was for the 'Bolt, but possibly within a horse or two of the new Honda? hmmmmm...... i made the comment about running your Uly to try to lightheartedly illustrate my opinion that the new Honda might actually surprise a "sportier" bike in a knife fight. no offense meant, and not worked up at all. i'm not the target market for the new Honda, and i'm quite happy with my FLHRI-AARP Road King. on the other hand, i dig the looks AND the features and specs of the new Honda, and hope it comes to America. i can easily see Denise on one of these. best, FB | ||
| Court |
>>> I want something that looks good covered in mud! That would have been Beth Anne Frisbee the night we all went to the saloon. | ||
| Spike |
Understood. You just seemed a little quick to defend it from what I didn't intend to be an attack.
At some point we're splitting hairs here, but is the number for the Honda at the crank or at the wheel? Either way, the S2 had more midrange.
I don't doubt that it would. I think there are a lot of bikes that would surprise a sport bike rider. Then again, you and I both know that if a DN-01 keeps up with a sport bike on a track or twisty road it will be due to the rider and not the bike. Having said all that, I still kinda dig it. I really like the idea of a big "scooter" for commuting and light sport-touring duty, but I haven't seen one that fits the bill yet. The ones offered so far are too expensive and don't offer enough (if any) improvement in fuel mileage to make the switch from a "real" motorcycle. | ||
| Bcordb3 |
I want something that looks good covered in mud! We need picture, plenty of pictures! That would have been Beth Anne Frisbee the night we all went to the saloon. I don't know who that person is. | ||
| Slaughter |
A 60HP twin is a lot to write home about if it FITS a large portion of the population, handles decently, doesn't need a whole lot of maintenance. Look at the SV 650 and V-Strom or the 650 Ninja and Versys. I got 63 repeatable HP out of the SV with minimal mods. It'd go fast enough to scare me.  | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
...You just seemed a little quick to defend it... not so much trying to defend, as trying to encourage folks to keep an open mind and look past brand loyalty and maybe appreciate this bike - or any bike - for its merits, even if its not a Buell. this isn't pointed at you specifically, and i'm certainly aware this is a Buell-focused forum, but sometimes it seems that *some* are quick to condemn a new bike (or any bike) for what i consider to be *wrong* (or naive) reasons. At some point we're splitting hairs here... agreed. ...but is the number for the Honda at the crank or at the wheel? unknown. and until i see readings taken by an independent tester, i don't hold much stock in Honda's published numbers. Either way, the S2 had more midrange. you sure? and the S2 should have more midrange - its displacement was/is over 75% greater than the new Honda. sorry, splitting thick hairs. Then again, you and I both know that if a DN-01 keeps up with a sport bike on a track or twisty road it will be due to the rider and not the bike. which, IMO, makes it all the more comical when someone bashes a bike because of perceived performance "deficits." not many can use all a bike's potential, and altho the new Honda can't make liter-class power, i bet it makes "enough" power for most of us. Having said all that, I still kinda dig it. I really like the idea of a big "scooter" for commuting and light sport-touring duty, but I haven't seen one that fits the bill yet. The ones offered so far are too expensive and don't offer enough (if any) improvement in fuel mileage to make the switch from a "real" motorcycle. i kinda dig it, too, and that suprises me a bit (a lot). i don't really see the scooter connection, however. it doesn't really have the scooter "look" to me, altho the stying in some respects is admittedly "different." thinking of my sweetie Denise, i find many features of this bike appealing, including the seat height, shaft drive, a trans that gives several easy options of how to shift, a "hill-holder," a (theoretically) friendly, torquey V-twin engine, what looks to be easygoing ergos and effective airflow management, etc., etc., etc. from a gearhead (and aesthetic) standpoint, i dig the single-sided swingarm. from my VFR experience, i suspect that popping off the rear wheel will take all of about 45 seconds, and will barely get your hands dirty. just like a car, only much easier. the claimed weight concerns me. i think it'll be hard to sell a 600-pound motorcyle to a gal who weighs, um, next to nothing like Denise. cost will also be an issue. it'll be interesting to see if it comes to America, and if so, how dear it'll be. i like ALL bikes, and i encourage anyone i haven't put to sleep already to embrace the wonder of the motorcycle world as we know it. this may indeed be the sport's golden age, and we're all the luckier for it. best, FB (Message edited by jerry_haughton on March 05, 2008) | ||
| Dbird29 |
That bike could be fun. What a great time to be a motorcyclist! | ||
| Madduck |
Guys, Almost every Harley ever sold fits the description, 60hp twin. They make a lot of them and that population is aging fast. Honda may be on to something here. Replacement "Geezer Glide", low to ground and with the hp the customer base is used to. I am torn between this and a ROKON for tearing up the farm. | ||
| Jb2 |
>>> That would have been Beth Anne Frisbee the night we all went to the saloon. Lemme guess. Remind me to have you tell me the story? I was more thinking along the lines of a KLR, DR, VStrom... >>> i like ALL bikes, and i encourage anyone i haven't put to sleep already to embrace the wonder of the motorcycle world as we know it. Well put. I have a lot of fun poking fun at friend's bikes but the whole reason we buy what we buy has absolutely nothing to do with reason. It's all about the passion. JB2 | ||
| Blake |
I agree that 600 LBs and 60 HP will be sluggish compared to an S2 or especially an SV650. |
