| Author | Message | ||
     Djkaplan |
Gasoline preferences are as rife with myths and old wives tales as oil preferences are. The only logical suggestion made so far is Reepicheep's - it's even more critical if you have a smaller gas tank. I doubt that it would affect the bike to a degree harmful enough to cause problems unless your bike is tuned to ragged edge, but even Reep said it was to get what he paid for, not because it makes the bike run any worse. I prefer a separate hose for it myself, but even when these constraints can't be met, I'm not so sure I would ever notice it on my particular bike. | ||
| Honu |
Shell Premium at a local station, mainly because it has a hose for each grade, as Reepicheep and Danny said. | ||
| Bads1 |
I look for a station with different hoses for different grades, so I get all the high octane I pay for. If your worrying about that you are wasting your time. You get what you pay for,single hose or 3. | ||
| Reepicheep |
It was logical until Jim (OldDog) started interjecting facts and ruining my denial. Now that I know it's still dilluted high octane, the bike will loose 2 HP. If you hadn't told me, it would still be running fine.  I'm guessing the hose itself has to hold at least .2 gallons. Assuming there is something in there like an oil filter, thats perhaps up to .3 gallons. Add a flow meter and other tubing, perhaps .4 So on my normal 2.8 gallon fill up, if the previous person was running 89 instead of 92, that would roughly work out (click click click... scratch scratch scratch) to me getting about 91.5714 octane instead of 92 octane. See the man sticking it to me! Help! Help! I am being oppressed! I guess I don't need to look for three tube pumps anymore... (Message edited by reepicheep on February 20, 2008) | ||
| Barker |
Cheap. Living in TN I miss 100 octane unleaded pumps in NC. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I'm changing my answer... the best gas I ever got in my life was the gallon Barker had delivered to me when I was stranded on Blood Mountain. Thanks again man. | ||
| P47b |
The separate & single hose issue is interesting. I was doing the separate hose pumps to get all 93 oct. I paid for. Or so I thought. I have a friend that worked on pumps. I’ll try to get some information from him. Djkaplan that would be the best petro.  | ||
| Cowboy |
I was told by local supply depot that pump goes in it reverse cycle when pump is turned off,and will not reg until hose is full of new fuel. | ||
| P47b |
Ok here is what I was told on multi & single hose pumps. The fuel that was last pumped from that pump, is he fuel that is in the hose for that time. For instance on the single hose the guy before you pumps 87 oct. and you pump 91 or 93 oct. into your tank you just got robbed of 5 to 10 gallons of fuel. So the next person that pumps gas at that single hose pump gets your gas at a higher oct. thinking he is getting the lower oct. fuel. Multi hose pumps carry that type of fuel for that hose. So if you pull a 89 oct. fuel hose you get that 89 oct. fuel. It's just that simple. (Message edited by p47b on February 22, 2008) | ||
| Etennuly |
I choose Sunoco as my first choice for a couple of reasons. First, they have never sold me "bad" gas. Next they had sponsored the coolest looking Indy car ever in the "Johnny Lightning", blue with yellow lightning bolts. It must have been in the mid to late seventy's.  Some things just make you go.....buurhhhaaa! | ||
| Bads1 |
Ok here is what I was told on multi & single hose pumps. The fuel that was last pumped from that pump, is he fuel that is in the hose for that time. For instance on the single hose the guy before you pumps 87 oct. and you pump 91 or 93 oct. into your tank you just got robbed of 5 to 10 gallons of fuel. So the next person that pumps gas at that single hose pump gets your gas at a higher oct. thinking he is getting the lower oct. fuel. Multi hose pumps carry that type of fuel for that hose. So if you pull a 89 oct. fuel hose you get that 89 oct. fuel. It's just that simple. Sorry but you do not get robbed of your fuel. The pump's do not hold fuel in the hoses. If they do it may be a dixie cup full. How do I know. My Brother owns two gas stations (C stores). I have changed the filters in his pumps with him. There is 3 separate filters for each grade of gas. If you let go of the handle the gas gets pushed back before the filters. It has to by law (EPA). I've done these filters now about 3 times. | ||
| Ftd |
Mobil synthetic gasoline for me | ||
| Slamber777 |
Here's what l've been told by the guys who drive fuel trucks. The straight gas all comes from the same tanks at the fuel depot. The difference comes in the delivery system to the truck. The branded fuels (Chevron, Shell, Texaco, etc) has tanks of their fuel additives at the depots. The additives get injected into the straight gas in the piping system to the truck. The old days they used to dump the additives in the top of the truck tanks before loading the gas. The cheap gas joints just get the straight gas as the feds make the refineries put a bare minimum of detergents in the fuel before leaving the plant. There is a BIG difference and your FI system will thank you for using Branded fuels. | ||
| P47b |
Hey it's only what I was told by some one who maintained fuel pumps in Ks. I am trying to get them on here to clarify. I have never worked on one. | ||
| Tom_b |
Actually Bad s1 that is not correct on most most modern overhead hose style pump systems. The filter is in the pump unit, the pipe goes up, then down to the hose nozzle. changing the filter on this type will only get a small amount of fuel. Change the hose assembly sometime and see what i mean, or watch a customer pull the hose off after the unit has shut down. More than a dixie cup comes out. Depending on the unit, anywhere from a quart to almost a gallon comes out. have changed the hoses and seen them get pulled off. | ||
| Bads1 |
Actually Bad s1 that is not correct on most most modern overhead hose style pump systems. The filter is in the pump unit, the pipe goes up, then down to the hose nozzle. changing the filter on this type will only get a small amount of fuel. Change the hose assembly sometime and see what i mean, or watch a customer pull the hose off after the unit has shut down. More than a dixie cup comes out. Depending on the unit, anywhere from a quart to almost a gallon comes out. have changed the hoses and seen them get pulled off. Funny I just came back from my Brothers one station less the an hour ago. Anf guess what?? A lady ripped the hose and gun off after she used her debit card. No gas on the pavement. She pumped 60 dollars worth. As far as old pump's my Brother station are brand new as of this past fall. His other station is a Mobil and they are 3 years. Sorry but I know exactly how they work. The station I just left just got new pump's because 1 he signed a contract with Piggly Wiggly for gas bonus points when ever a customer gets there groceries at a Piggly wiggly. Two he went completely independent. He buy's is own gas under his name. The station used to be a Sin Clair. The Mobil will be the same when contract ends. | ||
| Tom_b |
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| Tom_b |
Gilbarco advantage series commercial pump. The hoses do breakaway, you can see the connections are about 7 ft. in the air. The hoses are anywhere from 8 to 12 ft. the pumps do not backflow to remove fuel from the hoses. They do drain back from the header pipe in the top of the system, but not the hoes. What type of pump are you talking about that somehow doesn't hold any fuel at all. Tolkheim, veeder root, wayne, all of this design hold some fuel. The highline "D" series don't have this problem since they are a side hang style where the manifold is down low below the intial hose connection. Like this  | ||
| Bads1 |
Neither of the pumps you show are what he uses. This is my last post on this subject. If the pumps hold gas that means customers are not gettiing what they paid for right??? Occasionally the EPA will make rounds to check your pump's to make sure the are infact accurate. My bother had one pump that was positve pumping a cent more then it should. Therefore they put a bag on the handle and made it out of order till the station has it recalibrated. So what I'm saying is if the pump's hold gas before the filters and in the pump them selves they are not accurate and also a HAZARD by possible huge amount. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I don't think anyone is arguing that the amount of fuel is not accurate, I think there is concern that the type of fuel you get for the first half gallon is whatever the last person used. But early on in the thread I actually bothered to do the math for the first time. Even if the whole system holds nearly half a gallon, the difference in octane between the "high" and the "low" is fairly low (92 versus 87?). So even if you have a smaller tank like we do, you still probably end up loosing less then one octane number from the button you pushed. It's like final exam time... you get a 92% on your first three tests, then get an 87% on the last one. You still got an "A". Put the high grade gas in (from a one hose pump or a three hose pump). If you bike has a pinging problem, fix your timing. (Message edited by reepicheep on February 26, 2008) | ||
| P47b |
Hey Bcordb3 I went back a few posts and read what you had written. It's not the refining process it's the oil that is refined. One oil might have more sulfur in it than the other. US based oil has more sulfur and crud in it than Mid Eastern oil. Yes the additive to the fuel does change from Comp. to Comp. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Seeing as how our bikes only require 91 octane and I haven't seen a single station that offers 91 (only 92 or 93 or higher), I think this whole octane discussion is a bust. I have run everything in my bike from mobil to hess to citgo to some el cheapo ma and pa place in the boonies. The bike has run teh exact same every time. | ||
| Tom_b |
Exactly Reepicheep, never was arguing about the amount as that is closely regulated. it was the grade left in the hose or whether the hose even holds fuel. the basic deal, it is not enough to make a difference in octane. (Message edited by tom_b on February 26, 2008) | ||
| Jaimec |
Anyone point out this website yet? http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html | ||
| Oldog |
Wow I did not know that I would start a fuss, My simple minded thinking is that there is A [one] totalizing flowmeter at the pump and all grades go through it depending on the design of the pump [ pipes and meter] there could be a significant quanity up to say a gallon in the line and meter that feed the hose and nozzle assm. I Assumed this as I work with chemical blending systems as part of my job, Then again 3 hoses 3 meters industry is a little different than trade on accuracy for manufacture of most common items. 3 High accuracy PD flow meters Gas pumps must not be cheap.... | ||
| Bads1 |
6 pump's just cost my Brother 85 grand. Yeah they are expensive. | ||
| Oldog |
well the new ones do every thing but make breakfast, I went looking on the web at gilbarco, data terminals, leak detection, parallel vacuum systems and pumps, internet connectivity, double passage hoses, with grounding, shoot you think you were reading the specs for the space shuttle. I just looked at 1 custody transfer flowmeter 3", for #6 fuel oil over 20grand, just 1 part of the system | ||
| Just_ziptab |
I used to squeeze the nozzle handle after I shut the pump off to get a few more ounces of fuel.......for free. Depending on the pump, sometimes quite a bit. There is no way for fuel to drain back from the hose, back to the pump with out air to replace the fuel that is draining back. Where does the air come from if the nozzle is closed???? | ||
| Lightstick |
I think that's part of the Vapor Recovery System. | ||
| Bcordb3 |
Hey Bcordb3 I went back a few posts and read what you had written. It's not the refining process it's the oil that is refined. One oil might have more sulfur in it than the other. US based oil has more sulfur and crud in it than Mid Eastern oil. Yes the additive to the fuel does change from Comp. to Comp. Crude oil is different from different sources, the specific gravity, the amount of H2S (hydrogen sulphide), and other components. Alaskan crude is generally has a specific gravity of 28+ API, with a low sulphur content, South American crude (Equatorian, Venezulean) a very clean crude, very high API and low sulphur content, Middle Eastern crude, again very good crude. Other areas that are crude producers vary in their chemistry, i.e. North Sea, West African, and Mexican. Crude from different fields in off-shore California (Santa Barbara area) vary in a few miles of each other. The Elwood area, just off the coast and beaches Cal State Santa Barbara is very high in H2S (sour crude) and is a natural seepage area. When the crude is handled during the pumping process Hazmat equipment has to be worn by those who handle it while loading or discharging the tankers or barges transporting the product. Crude oil that as a high sulphur content is used to produce other petroleum products, asphalt comes to mind. Getting back to the statement. Crude being refined to produce a product has to meet the specifications of the refiner. Crude is sometime co-mingled to achieve the proper formula required. Hey after all that, we are both right! |
