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Igneroid
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 11:18 am: | 
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FEEL UP DE PAPER
AND PAY FIGH DALLARS
AND DE MANG WEEL COME
HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.
To quote Stewie Griffin....."can someone help me who didn't float to this country on a wooden door."
OOOOOOOHHHHHHH my sides are hurting, you guys are killin me ahahhahahaahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahah Oh Jebus Im gonna die hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha haha |
Ironken
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 02:03 pm: |
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Why do so many people think that if you take the Robin Hood approach that everything will be fine?
Why should someone be punished for making more money?
Is that really fair?
What we really need is to lower taxes, quit giving so much financial aid to people who don`t deserve it, and create jobs so that we will have more tax payers and less tax receivers.
Think about how much we spend just on the illegals. Then look at all the financial aid we give to the rest of the world.
Blah blah blah...
Pure poetry! |
Buellerandy
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 02:16 pm: |
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Not to sound like an extremist...and I'm not as knowledgeable about this info as a lot of you are...but I'd say screw it- use the 2nd ammendment right while we still have it and use it for what it was meant for- to keep the government at bay and re-regulate the system...while we're at it, put a cap on insurance and credit systems. I'm done with the idea of sin taxes and all that.
Sorry for ranting...just found out I owe money to the IRS because I didn't earn enough money this year for what I was being taxed for. Sounds like bs...felt like bs...but ohwell, I'm an honest American and will pay it, no questions asked. I guess it just adds to my list of "The worst thing you can be in America is a single white male in his 20's." Thank god I'm not still looking for a job...sheesh.
Sorry again for ranting lol. I'm done. |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 06:20 pm: |
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that shyt really happens hear every day that really happened to me I don't know how to make that shyt up I also don't know Canada works so I won't comment on it but it would probably be like needing something from the government and from BC asking someone in toronto who gets everything for free and isn't interested even if they could understand you
it is in so many ways infuriating
and hammoriod was right but I wouldn't mind if there were a few more sharks in the pond
the monetary waste that hole mess brings about is mind boggling |
Jlnance
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 09:34 am: |
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When I worked for Hubbell Premise Wiring, I lost my job because they moved to Puerto Rico. They didn't move there because labor was less, it was actually the same. They moved there because Puerto Rico told them if they moved there, they wouldn't have to pay taxes for seven years, and after seven years the tax rate would be far below the U.S.
The interesting part of that is that Puerto Rico IS part of the US. No, not a state, but everyone born there is a US citizen. I'm not sure, but I would assume that federal taxes are the same as in the states. It must be the state taxes that are different? |
Glitch
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 09:43 am: |
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Since they are a territory and not a state, the federal laws are different.
Taxes as well as other laws...
For one since they're a territory NAFTA doesn't count, so moving there is relatively simple .
Another, since they're not a state, they can move operations elsewhere, say Mexico for the cheap labor, and not worry about NAFTA there either.
Kind of a back door out of the States.
But that's a whole 'nuther can o worms... |
Jlnance
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 12:19 pm: |
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Thanks Glitch. |
Ratyson
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 01:08 pm: |
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Hey Jl,
With the 'fair tax' system, you wouldn't have to worry about paying taxes on your kids education, as these things are not taxed.
The only things that are taxed are new goods and services. College is not considered a taxable service.
Don't want to pay tax on a new car? No problem. Find a used one with very low mileage... they are always available.
And, if you put money into retirement pre-tax... You have not paid taxes on that money... yet. But with the current system, you will when you take it out, and who knows what the rate will be when you do. That is, unless the fair tax bill gets put through beforehand.. then you WON'T have to pay any taxes when you withdraw it from your retirement accounts.
As for the money you have in savings that you don't want to pay tax on again... Well, with every change comes sacrifice. And the end value of this kind of change FAR exceeds any tax you would be out on that money. And really, technically, you wouldn't be taxed on that money. The only way you would be paying 'taxes' with that money is if you bought new products or services. So you would be paying taxes on WHAT you buy, not what you are buying WITH.
Now, a question to the OP:
Could you give me a reason why those who earn more are not entitled to what they work for, but those who earn less are, plus a little bit from those who earned more?
This whole income tax fiasco we have all been paying into is just ridiculous. IMHO, the only taxation plan that would work for EVERYONE would be the fair tax.
I'll tell you one thing, if witholding were done away with (which means you would get your entire paycheck, but then have to immediately cut a check to the government for your owed taxes), I would bet there would be a GREAT amount of support for the fair tax. But as it is, we are in that 'out of site, out of mind' mode of operation. We don't really 'feel' the money being taken from us... we just see the numbers on a piece of paper.
Just imagine.. April 15th is just another day...wouldn't that be grand..
I say, repeal the 16th amendment, disband and defund the IRS, and lets get down to making some real economic progress!
DAMN THE MAN!!
(Message edited by ratyson on February 13, 2008) |
Glitch
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 01:49 pm: |
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Well said Russ! |
Deadduck
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 04:00 pm: |
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+++++++++1 Russ! |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 05:07 pm: |
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you got my vote
well said
as long as we are at it though we should try to get rid of hiring people for who or what they are rather than what they know and we could save alot more money if we made sure judges were not also lawyers and change this property tax set up in nj anyway and get socialised medicine or a form there of, and fire about 60% of NJ state employees ok that one was for spite |
Dalton_gang
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 05:29 pm: |
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I`m with Ratyson. |
Ratyson
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 05:55 pm: |
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...and get socialised medicine or a form there of...
Now that is one idea I absolutely cannot get behind. I know our current system has some major drawbacks, and it needs an overhaul. But I could not allow the government to manage my health, not one bit.
I don't know what the answer to the current system is, but for me it is definitely not socialized medicine.
On the other items, I moved from NJ when I was in the 4th grade, so I can't speak on them.}
(Message edited by ratyson on February 13, 2008) |
Glitch
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 06:30 pm: |
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Don't get me started on Commy Health Care... |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 06:31 pm: |
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Actually, if they ran things by the Constitution, you could eliminate the Infernal Revenue Service & substitute NOTHING for it, because without the dole, in any form, income from mining & imports already in place would pay for it all.
Not going to happen. The National Guard could slaughter the welfare rioters, but the out of work Federal employee's would kill us all. Wish I was joking.
I don't have a good answer. The progressive ( rich pay more % than poor ) tax system in place, crap that it is, would work if 3 things happened.
1. Congress to budget with last years income. No debt allowed.
2. Social engineering taxes, like sin taxes, or exemptions for home buyers loan interest, must be restricted to a minimum. ( & I'm house shopping & really, really, want them to keep that one )
3. tax rates must be adjusted, over time, to maximize income to the govt. & minimize pain to the taxpayers. See the Laffer Curve.
That means taking the power away from Congress to reward & punish through the tax system. NEVER HAPPEN.
Keep the 1st & 2nd Amendments, the rest depend on them.
Socialists can kiss my @$$. It's a system than screws the people, enriches the masters, & uses hate & fear to manipulate the masses. You know, like American Idol. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 06:37 pm: |
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Best way to overhaul the system is to attack the cost structures. The largest line item on EVERY physician practice's expense sheet is malpractice insurance. Cap the judgements to something reasonable.
If you look at the states of SC, GA, AL, and MS, those states have failing health systems from a provider standpoint. Each has become a single payor system. This is directly due to the cost of malpractice claims and judgements in each of these states. The malpractice insurance costs became so high that none of the physicians could pay the premiums. They left these states.
You will see the same thing happen with universal healthcare but from the revenue side. Universal Healthcare reimbursement rates will be dictated by the government regardless of actual costs. We see this happening already with Medicare.
Prime example. A buddy of mine works for a dialysis clinic company. They are facing having to leave the state of SC because Medicare determined that treatments in that state should cost $300 per treatment. Previously, they were reimbursing at $1300 per treatment. Just the cost of the filter is $300.
Medicare is attempting to force out all but a single provider who is willing to provide the treatments at a loss as long as they can become the single provider of medical equipment for dialysis for the state. The company can make more money supplying equipment than they can supplying service. The problem is that at some point in time the company has supplied all the equipment needed. When that happens they will either renegotiate the rates back to where they were before or leave the state.
This will happen with physicians as well. Whey physicians can not make the money they want, they will be forced to leave the business. If they don't leave the business, they will be forced to go to work for corporations and medical provider companies who are able to make money through facilities management or equipment supply. The patient will be the last concern on the list.
Government negotiated reimbursement rates will stifle innovation, supply, and access.
This is not the answer. |
Hammeroid
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 06:57 pm: |
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Brum.... +1 F-Jersey |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 07:11 pm: |
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... 10% is 10% irregardless of what you make...
Sure but the impact of taking 10% is not the same. A person barely scraping by feels that 10% tax way more then someone like Bill Gates. Besides, considering the tax deductions I generate every year, I'm bound to lose out with a flat tax and I bet many middle class people would, also. Be careful what you wish....change isn't always the panacea we hope for. |
Paw
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 08:39 pm: |
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Don't want to pay tax on a new car? No problem. Find a used one with very low mileage... they are always available.
Sorry to tell you. Your wrong here depending on the state you live in you still have to pay taxes on a used vehicle. I lived in PA and now in NY and have bought used cars, trucks and motorcycles in both states and had to pay state tax on all of them.
I knew this would bring some very interesting comments. But i agree with only one in here, there should be a straight tax percentage on everyone just like the States do. The government sucks depending on who is in office or controls the senate determines the tax rate. There are a ton in office who are greedy and millionaires and want the tax breaks. Then you have the few who actually care about the economy and the proper way to tax and run the control. To bad we do not have enough of them in office.
(Message edited by paw on February 13, 2008) |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 08:56 pm: |
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well my doctors driving a Range Rover so i don't care about his malpractice ins. I think that you are 100% correct OUR gov shouldn't get involed my statement was in haste and more out of anger and the "there of" except I wonder how other countries pull it off perhaps they hire qualified people
they also seem to cure not treat patients
and the judges seem to throw out frivoless suits and not worry if I don't try this case he wont try mine when I go back to private practice
we really could do this round and round so I end with this
FIRST THE POLITICIANS THEN THE LAWYERS |
Ratyson
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 09:25 pm: |
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Sorry to tell you. Your wrong here depending on the state you live in you still have to pay taxes on a used vehicle. I lived in PA and now in NY and have bought used cars, trucks and motorcycles in both states and had to pay state tax on all of them.
Actually, no, I am not wrong. I was talking about how it would be under the fair tax system. Under that system, used goods are not taxed, regardless of the state you live in.
Under our CURRENT system, yes, some states tax the sale of used cars.
This is what I wrote:
}With the 'fair tax' system, you wouldn't have to worry about paying taxes on your kids education, as these things are not taxed.
The only things that are taxed are new goods and services. College is not considered a taxable service.
Don't want to pay tax on a new car? No problem. Find a used one with very low mileage... they are always available.
(Message edited by ratyson on February 13, 2008) |
Glitch
| | Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 08:02 am: |
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Just to be clear:
The Fair Tax is not a flat tax.
The Fair Tax does not affect state tax.
Socialist ideals are not good on any level, with the possible exception of the government level, and who in their right mind wants a bigger more powerful government?
I told y'all not to start me on the socialist health carelessness bullshit! |
Badlionsfan
| | Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 08:47 am: |
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Sir Winston Churchill wasn't a fan of the socialists....
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy."
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." |
Badlionsfan
| | Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 08:52 am: |
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Sure but the impact of taking 10% is not the same. A person barely scraping by feels that 10% tax way more then someone like Bill Gates.
so what? anyone that thinks that is a bad thing is a moron. like bush said during the state of the union address, if you feel like you're not paying enough taxes, you'll be happy to know that the irs accepts checks and money orders. someone who has worked their ass off to make the money that a bill gates has shouldn't be penalized because you never applied yourself beyond night manager at taco bell. |
Spdkls
| | Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 10:32 am: |
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speaking of socialist medical care!
being in the military. if i have any ailments i only get 15 mins with the doc, period! so i can't go to the clinic on base and discuss 2 problems that i have; only one at a time. thats what universal health care will do. with uni care, depending on where you live, you can only go to select doctors, if you even get a doc. we only have a couple here. mostly pa's or nursing pr's. anybody who has dealt with them know what i'm talking about. we call it assembly line treatment. we had 2 guys at work almost die because the clinic would do anything.
i was in the clinic one day, when some airmen started convulsing and then passed out. family practice didn't wouldn't even treat him on the spot. they called the ambulance service and sent him downtown to the er. oh yeah, i work at a full time flying base and we don't have an er. the closest one is 20-25 mins away. another thing is our ambulance crews can only perform life saving service. only a couple of those guys in that group are even able to give iv treatment with the blessing of the on call doc. so if you needs fluids, you better hope the guy that comes can give an iv. most of our emt folks used to be certified, not any more. unless that has changed in the last 4 months.
so basically, you better off being in the desert fighting the war, getting shot to get the right treatment. if your stationed stateside your better off waiting until the clinic closes and go to the er yourself to get any help.
i've been in treatment for a work related shoulder injury since september, and i still haven't seen a specialist.
thats what universal health care will be like. er's flooded with people because you will never get a dr's appointment.
some may not agree with me, but 15 years in the air force and another 21 as a dependent of the army. i have some experience with this.
and the bad thing is i keep going back to those moron barely passed medical school doctors to help me. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 11:20 am: |
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...well since y'all have gotten me started...
First off, this got my attention.
well my doctors driving a Range Rover...
I guess you're implying that you feel your doctor is well off. I have an idea that a majority of doctors, became doctors because it pays well. If the health care system became socialized, they would become government employees, not making as much as they did in private practice, therefore only those that wanted to become lower paid government employees would become doctors, therefore we'd have fewer doctors. Fewer doctors, less medical research. Not a good thing.
Read Spdkls' post. You wanna wait in line for a 15 minute doctor visit? Wanna take the chance that all you needed was a 15 minute visit?
If socialized health care becomes a reality, so would health care rations. Want a cap on how much health care you receive?
If socialized health care is so good, why do people from Canada come here for health care?
Also look at England's health care for examples of rationing.
...I could go on...
Capitalism is what made America what it is, great. There's no need to go to socialism, it fails, we've seen it throughout history.
What makes people think we could make it work, by trusting, growing, empowering government?
Give me a break.
Government is for national security such as the military, not security as in blanket.
Personal responsibility should be what we teach our children, not how to depend on government.
...I'm done...
...for now... |
Paw
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 09:07 pm: |
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My parents live in Arkansas and that state taxes you on your property like your house, vehicles, land, etc. To settle all this have a fair tax on all your property owned. So if you own 2 homes 5 cars 7 motorcycles, 1 boat and 120 acres of land and for sh!ts a giggles and apartment for the people who can't own a home. You will be taxed on the value of all your property. As compared to someone who rents but owns a car everyone will pay fair taxes that way. The more you earn the more spend the more property you own, the more taxes you pay. It works great in Arkansas.
If i didn't have a great job here in NY i would move there tomorrow most of my family moved there from PA and they love it.
That's all i have to about that. |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 09:52 pm: |
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it is a mistake about me caring about doc having money more power to him
i don't care about how much he pays for malpractice ins is what I implied its a cost of biusness
I just think with a more semisocialised kind of insurance it would give an umbrella for the poor and make insurance for us much more affortable in turn giving a hell of alot more for your money
I also own property in Germany they have socailized med but if you want you can purchase ins at an extremely affordable rate and you will get much better care for sure.
I also know we are not germany and much larger but there has to be a happy medium.
I am a capatalist as well and am well aware of my goodfortune that being said I think we give to much away and do not hold those that abuse the system or are given a great opp. and do not try to better themselves accountable. doing this I believe will ultimatley or at least hopefully give our troops for example the care they deserve .Searching for an answer to a more affordable life for everyone is a moral imperative
I didn't want to come off calus but I can not stand a doc or anyone whinning when they got the world by the balls and don't see it I am all for making money mad crazy money even anyway I hope I cleared that up
FIRST THE LAWYERS THEN THE POLITICIANS |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 10:13 pm: |
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I forgot the doctor thing hit a nerve because my doc actually was complaining to me aabout the malpractice ins I don't think I stated that sorry |
Azxb9r
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 02:00 am: |
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In Az. we have some of the highest malpractice ins, rates in the country, along with some of the lowest pay. The result is that Dr.s are leaving the state. The few that are here have case loads that are bigger than they can handle.
if i have any ailments i only get 15 mins with the doc, period! so i can't go to the clinic on base and discuss 2 problems that i have; only one at a time. thats what universal health care will do. with uni care, depending on where you live, you can only go to select doctors, if you even get a doc. we only have a couple here. mostly pa's or nursing pr's. anybody who has dealt with them know what i'm talking about. we call it assembly line treatment. we had 2 guys at work almost die because the clinic would do anything.
You have just described typical medical care under an HMO.
The Dr. does not get paid for anything that the HMO does not approve, so things are not always treated properly. To make things worse, getting an appointment takes weeks. If you need a specialist it takes months. The only way to get treated on the same day is to go to the ER, even then, if it is not life threatening you are looking at a minimum 4 hr wait.
The current system is broken, and needs something done about it. Unfortunately there is no silver bullet, it has multiple problems at several levels. |
Spdkls
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 08:58 am: |
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yes, there are good and bad points.
when i was on vacation in italy, we got into a high speed accident on the autostrada running about 75-80 mph. you know normal speeds over there.
good point: didn't have to pay ambulance, er, doctor, or medication charges and my mom and wife got seen very quickly since it was a highway accident(some weird clause in their health care system) though their injuries were minor. wife had small cut on back of head, mom had severe leg bruise. me, got out with just seatbelt bruise, and i had to stay on scene to translate german/broken english to italian.
bad point: they didn't shave my wifes hair properly, or clean the wound properly. didn't use stitches even though the cut was deep enough(would of at least had about 20 stitches or 10 staples here). instead they used that glue stuff you use for small cuts. long story short her wound got infected after about 2 weeks. she went to the hosp at our base in england and the doctor had to basically redo everything the italians didn't do and she had to get put on antibiotics for the infection.
long story, but i have more about hmo health care if you want to read them.
believe it or not the best care i have ever seen in an overseas er was at dammam, saudi arabia(where the khobar towers are located). we had a guy cut his forehead on a fighter engine. the saudi er doc didn't just stitch him up and call it a day. they actually performed a very small plastic surgery procedure so the cut would heal without having stitch marks. but this was the same hospital that the the wealthy oil folks used daily so their care is pretty good. i guess my point to this story is money talks and free health sucks...the end |
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