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Danger_dave
| | Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 09:49 pm: | 
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Cool - trade your thoughts for mine:
First draft still rough.
Sumer of the Harley MkII
For the second year in a row the Ed as let me off the leash on the Harley-Davidson press fleet over the summer break.
For the second year in a row I have to report that I’ve had about the best time a motorcyclist can have.
A golden Summer in motorcycle paradiso in the company of some simply stunning machines, but you’d think by the reaction of some of my pals I was being punished.
‘Don’t they like you over there (at KR) or something’ was just one of the ribbings I got when I pulled up on a Hawg.
I smiled with usual good @#$&@#^ grace and trotted out my standard, ‘For the five years I’ve been testing them, every year they have improved just that little bit, made nice machines a little bit better. This year is no exception. Just depends on who’s riding them, Sunshine.’
Then I proceeded to have no trouble at all keeping on the pace with a bunch of 1200cc Japanese and European motorcycles riding at 'expert rider' pace on the road. (Yes - I know the track would be a different story, but the road is my reality.)
I waved ‘em through on the really twisty sections, because the bikes ran out of cornering clearance (it’s good to take the test bikes back with some footpegs) but I came out of the section not that far behind and really enjoyed it.
What the Harleys lack crossing the Kaimai Mountains is well compensated for on the Desert Road - or the Boulevarde.
It dawned that these types of bikes (Cruisers) have to be ridden within the machine’s capability - not the Rider’s. In the conditions around Auckland at the moment – that’s not a bad thing at all.
Dave the Debunkerator.
The mate that laid the ‘punishment’ line hadn’t actually sat on a Harley before. I find that’s reasonably common.
It was just some payback banter and all cool, but it was amazing how I was constantly and unnecessarily on the back foot about the machine’s performance.
‘Crikey Charlie!’ he said in in his broadest Irwin. They have a 1584cc EFI engine with 123Nm of torque on tap. You can wick ‘em up. Ride within their tolerances and they are great fun.’
You can poke holes in most cruiser arguments – except the intangible: ‘Enjoyment’.
And boy I enjoyed this lot.
First in the shed was a the FXDF Fat Bob.
This is a neat handling, good-stopping, style exercise that works. It’s like they have taken a Dyna and crossed it with the Fat Boy.
It has the Dyna road manners, rubber mounted engine and a heap of style.
The Big ol’ Fat Boy looking front wheel compliments a neat riding position courtesy of some flat style drag bars. It’s also available with mid controls.
I found the big tyre and front end worked really well, it did suffer from some minor buffeting on a blustery freeway – but minor – otherwise I found the machine quite chuckable as per the Ed’s full review in December KR.
’08 FLSTF Fat Boy
Next in the shed was the Fat Boy.
As noted in the December KR, the ‘07 Fat Boy won the inaugural Big Dave award for most desirable motorcycle tested in ’07 and for ’08 it gets just that little bit better still.
Folding footboards are now standard and some re-engineering sees a 200 section rear tyre. The ultra narrow carbon fibre drive belt also means the end of the off-set-in-the-forks front wheel.
Unlike the Dynas the Fat Boy Engine is hard mounted and counterbalanced.
The second most common ribbing I got was along the lines of ‘loose fillings.’
‘Crikey!’ he Irwined again – ‘The Fatty must be about as smooth as a near 1600cc Vee twin can be!’
The counterbalanced engine produces more ‘thob’ than vibration and for a big man there aren’t too many more solid feeling bikes on the road.
Co-pilot rated the standard pillion accommodations on the Fat Boy as ‘Very Good’ as we did the obligatory stunning Sunday morning brunch at Mission Bay.
We both find the Fat Boy touches our happy spot with a dash of cool.
I gave it a few spirited solo runs as well and kept coming back to the very high enjoyment quotient.
Keep within the tolerances (which are still well above the advisory cornering limits) and grin – even at Mr Plod.
And then the Street Bob.
‘Help – I’m lost somewhere in time – look for me between Elvis, The Fonz and Pulp Fiction’.
Harley says that the styling of the FXDB Street Bob ‘Brings you back to when the best way to make a bike go faster and look better was to strip off metal parts.’
I found myself like that Meguires commercial where the dudes just stare at the machines.
Minimalist opulence? Whatever. I just loved its style and like a Thruxron or a Bonneville it connected me with so many of my icons of coolness.
I like that ‘strap a motor to your butt aspect too.
Do you remember the round-about at the park when you were six years old. Hanging on to the upright and swinging off the thing as far and as low as you could go. Even dragging parts on the ground?
Swing your bum off the seat, hang off the handlebars and gun a Street Bob out of a sweeping right hander. Same buzz. Solid as.
‘Geez, you make that thing go Big Dave’.
‘Still think they don’t huh?’
‘Ahhh no – mind if I sit on it’.
As I was standing in the doorway of the shed gazing Meguires style at the Street Bob one of the lads asked what I’d like to write about it.
‘Full Robot Chubby – but that’s about 997 words shy’.
‘What are they like reliability wise though?’ came out when the conversation went past the Banter.
‘I think there’s an unreliabilty myth leftover from the AMF days.’
So I rang Lou at who looks after the rental fleet at AMPS for a quote.
AMPS have been running a fleet of 5 rental bikes for about 4 years now.
‘In that time we’ve not had to send the truck for a mechanical failure - other than a broken belt drive. No mechanical failures.’
In a fleet of rental bikes he said with raised eyebrow.
In the end I took the Street Bob back before I was obliged to. I just wasn’t getting any work done and Motomail was running out of Coffee.
I had that much trouble keeping off it such was the enjoyment quotient.
Taking them back....sigh....I’ll tell ya about ‘punishment.’ |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 09:53 pm: |
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I don't want this to get ugly, but as demand decreases (due to economic reasons, cyclical processes, model popularity, etc.) supply must also decrease lest the manufacturer tie up resources in goods that remain unsold for extended periods of time.
How does momentary decreases in worker count in response to reduced supply equal bankruptcy?
Why is it that the assumption is that the workforce of a manufacturing company will always be operating at full capacity with 100% of the folks getting 40+ hours a week producing the same amount of bikes regardless of what is going on outside the factory? When my work slacks off, I work fewer hours, I make less money, I tighten my belt.
I am a biological machine. When there isn't enough work to do, the machine gets turned off. When work increases, the machine gets turned back on. |
Corporatemonkey
| | Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 10:15 pm: |
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How does momentary decreases in worker count in response to reduced supply equal bankruptcy?
Did I miss something? I don't recall bankruptcy ever being mentioned?
Why is it that the assumption is that the workforce of a manufacturing company will always be operating at full capacity with 100% of the folks getting 40+ hours a week producing the same amount of bikes regardless of what is going on outside the factory? When my work slacks off, I work fewer hours, I make less money, I tighten my belt.
Are you a Union worker? |
Jlnance
| | Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 10:54 pm: |
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Are you a Union worker?
I believe he is self employed. |
Prof_stack
| | Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 11:28 pm: |
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Part of HD's problem frankly is gum on their corporate shoe. Their customer base hasn't disappeared but it has moved.
Last year I sold my Electra-Glide after 16 years of great riding. Kept the XB9S. But lately I've been looking at the XLH883 as perhaps a "simpler, smaller" ride like the '86 Evo Sporty I once had. Well, yesterday when I sat on one it was quickly evident that the Sporty is now a fat pig of 550 pounds! Its got nothing on the XB. Harley has nothing of interest for me right now.
My next ride will be lighter and smaller and right now only the Blast fits that description from a US maker. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 12:16 am: |
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I don't recall bankruptcy ever being mentioned?
Is the Mothership (slowly) sinking?
The implications of bankruptcy were in the title.
Are you a Union worker?
No. Why? |
Corporatemonkey
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 01:31 am: |
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The reason I asked is a lot of union shops (think UAW) have minimum work contracts.
The company is required to pay the workers for a predetermined amount, even if the work is not there. I think detroit calls them job banks.
Now I do not know the terms of the HD union agreement but if they have something similar, it would cost them a lot to slow down a production line. Hence a lot of union shops just plow ahead, and hope they can move the product.
You and I both take a pay cut when times are tough, not so for a lot of union workers... |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 02:15 am: |
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You and I both take a pay cut when times are tough, not so for a lot of union workers...
Agreed. That inflexibility is both the benefit and the weakness of unions. If you can't adjust the workflow, you have to completely let folks go. Usually the "let go" results in "never coming back" unfortunately. |
Nevrenuf
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 06:24 am: |
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that might me true in a plant inviroment, but not as a union construction worker unfortunately.(little over 18 yrs as a carpenter, then called it quits due to politics) |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 09:41 am: |
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Just quickly...
Nothin wrong with a M109 and it's a fraction of the price.
The M109R is a piece of junk. I rode one a few months ago. It was reasonable quick, but lacked the low-end torque that HD's, or even Buells have. All thos cc's in a 700+ lbs bike, and they put the power in the wrong place as far as I was concerned. Plus, the materials are far inferior to those on an HD.
I'm a firm believe that you get what you pay for with an HD. The imitators are exactly that.
As far as HD sinking... I don't believe anything of the sort. And to be frank, I'm seeing more and more young people buying HDs than I ever remember seeing even a few years ago. Keep in mind I myself am young at a mere 24 years old, but I've been fully aware of the motorcycle industry for a long time now.
Hell, even I bought my first brand-new Harley when I was 20 years old.
Yeah, the MAIN market is getting older, but look at bikes like the Rocker - they're appealing to those younger (I'd say mid-30's) type riders who are into the whole custom chopper thing, but don't want to shell out $30k for an OCC or Big Dog, and don't have the time (and maily ability) to build one themselves.
Yes, there are issues, but EVERY company in the world has issues.
The collection of bikes in the showroom? It's January, and you live in Washington State. What would you expect?
At my dealer, the stock starts to build up around September. By May, the place is emptied of just about everything. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 10:07 am: |
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I do not think H-D has a "job bank" like the automakers. I think a one week layoff saved H-D some money AND wasn't it during deer hunting week here in Wisconsin? I bet they were operating short handed already. |
Danger_dave
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 07:02 pm: |
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Prophetically? - The bum appears to be falling out of the stock market currently.
The M109 isn't junk.
It's just not nearly as nice as a H-D.
It was also close to half the price down here when I tested it.
2.5% off the market at lunchtime here - but steadying
(Message edited by danger_dave on January 15, 2008) |
Doerman
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 07:37 pm: |
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HD did a smart thing back in the 90ies continuing forward into this decade where they encouraged owners to be stakeholder in the brand itself. Jeff Bluestein once said: “Our customers own the brand, we just take care of it for them” (loosely paraphrased). The owners helped perpetuate the image and the image drew more owners. The company fueled the feeling for the brand with additional products, events, and programs (clothing, accessories, rallies, financing, insurance, credit cards.. the list goes on). The waiting lists for certain models also increased the intrigue for the product and drew more into the fold. During all of this, the “image” was pushed out to dealers who were highly encouraged to adopt the store, shop and program standards which even further drew in more customers. A Harley Dude/Dudette made a sport out of going to different dealers to buy a T-shirt.
Ingenious really, and perhaps without parallel elsewhere in the marketplace. And there is no reason to abandon this winning formula.
So the question now is; has this tide crested, or is it just a temporary slowdown. Vehicle sales are a direct measure of the size of the customer base. However, total revenues are a measure of customer base and added sales you can make to the customer base. The obvious answer is to continue to improve the vehicles and diversify the cruiser offering. That will not be sufficient to feed the future growth. Overseas markets are not the complete answer either. Since surveys indicate that a Harley customer is a happy customer there is not much to gain in customer relations programs either. Although, all of these fronts are important to grow and maintain a leadership posture in each in order to maintain the organic growth. What Wall Street is expecting is beyond organic growth, and for that to occur HD needs to look at what else the current and future Harley owner will buy.
Wild ideas would be a track experience (I wish), coffee shops/café catering to the HD crowd, HD resorts at popular riding areas with support structure for trailering./renting.. Anyway, you get the idea is to reach deeper into the pockets of current owners and thereby attract new owners into the fun. |
Danger_dave
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 07:41 pm: |
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nice work doerman. |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 09:07 pm: |
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HD has kinda come and gone that direction . . . not long ago they bought Holiday Rambler . . . a premier maker of motorcoaches.
The idea was about the time you "retired" from riding . . . well, you'd buy a HD motorhome.
Cooler heads and "do what you do best" thinking saw the sale of Holiday Rambler and a host of off shoots.
Anybody got a Harley-Davidson bomb casing? . . huge contract with the government. |
Mainstreamer
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 01:07 am: |
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Somehow I just don't think this is the answer:
http://www.chatmag.com/news/090106_harley_lehman.h tml |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 07:51 am: |
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the only thing all this means to me is HD prices will be coming down
If the company is in trouble after 1 or 2 bad years then what are the heads of it doing they had 18 good years before that
There should be plenty of RAINY DAY cash in the coffers |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 09:11 am: |
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quote:NEW YORK (AP) - Shares of Harley-Davidson Inc. (nyse: HOG - news - people ) hit a 52-week low Tuesday on investor concerns about the effects of a recession on the iconic motorcycle maker's sales.
Damn good time to buy me thinks . . . . |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 09:56 am: |
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Yep! Court, will you cover my options? |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 07:05 pm: |
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"I think a one week layoff saved H-D some money AND wasn't it during deer hunting week here in Wisconsin?"
Should have seen my buddy's check from the 40+ hours of OT they put in (in less then 1 week)at the PDC over Christmas. That layoff was for the Shareholders. |
Spike
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 07:20 pm: |
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I didn't see this mentioned yet so I figured it's worth throwing out.
I recall reading back in '03/'04 sometime that Harley was implementing a plan to increase production over the next few years. I don't recall the specific numbers, but I'd love to see if this recent production cutback has actually brought production to new lows or if it was just losing the units that were gained in recent years. |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 08:51 pm: |
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ON that Rocker (the bike that we have been promised but yet to see) All of ours are presold, and NOT a single buyer was under the age of 52. The bike may try and appeal to the younger generation, but 52+ are the ones that BOUGHT them. Your local stats may vary.
Stocks it is a perception and sound bite. How many times since 1996 has the stock split? So if the value of your share went down ten bucks but it split so you now have more of them... You know if the news didnt report it and clamor about gloom and doom, would their be a recession in the market? So much of it is perception when it comes to 'worth' that I dont think NBC, CBS, ABC have any idea the trouble they ripple through the economy with their banter and headlines. |
Danger_dave
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 09:10 pm: |
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Interesting - but not really surprising? - It's a well heeled person's plaything - and there are more persons that have the 'disposable' by 52.
I wanted an XR1000 desperately when I was 20.
Wasn't till I was 40 that I could 'honestly' afford such an expensive a 'toy'. |
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