| Author | Message | ||
     Teddagreek |
I'm looking at adding a second bike to keep my CityX company.. I'm was looking at a an 1125r but now its a flip of the coin with the RC8... Does any one know how much the bike will cost.. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
1000 bars of gold pressed latinum. | ||
| Teddagreek |
 Damn, I don't have that kind of dough... | ||
| Crusty |
Let me put it this way: The 1125R is in production, and lots of people have ridden one (and really like it). The KTM has been announced for a few years, and I don't know if anybody has ridden one, or when it will be in production. A bird in the hand is worth a whole flock of invisible birds in the bush. | ||
| Barker |
Dont hold your breath I haven't see one with mirrors or turn signals. IMHO I willing to bet the 1125r will be a better bike, especially for the money. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I do like the idea of keeping the CityX and adding to. Never get rid of the toys ! I am looking at the KTM 450 though. since Buell pulled the invisible bird of its own with the dirt squirter.  | ||
| Barker |
From KTM: "the most powerful twin ever!" I guess they haven't seen the 1098R. Production street bike specs. RC8 specs form KTM 151.5 HP 88.5 ft lbs 1098R specs from Ducati 180 HP 99.1 ft lbs and the duc was 85 lbs less! | ||
| Rocketman |
Does everyone have to take a pop at the KTM? It's a fantastic looking motorcycle and one that dares to be different, just like Buell. Why knock it? It will be on the showroom floor long before the 1125R, of which I was told I could test ride in July, then November. Before November came I got a call saying December. A week last Friday I got another call saying it will be sometime in the new year. Probably March. It's nothing out of the ordinary. In truth it's exactly what I expected. Buell UK haven't a clue! Apart from they probably know the RC8 will be selling well before the 1125R that is. Does it really matter? Only to Buell if they lose immediate sales to KTM. No skin off my back. I wasn't planning on buying either. Rocket | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Rocket, The "Venom" was introduced in 2005. Until it's actually on the shelves and available, it's unobtainable and might as well cost $1M. It won't be cheap when it gets here. You will probably see it before we do. Because of the exchange rate, it will cost more here than it does there. I have no doubt it will be a great bike. | ||
| Rocketman |
I don't doubt any of that Fats, but man do we keep hearing how poor other manufacturers are for getting their bikes to market after first showing them. The Brutale was shown first in 1999. Made production in 2003. The 916 was spawned in 1991. Didn't make production until 1993. Only the Japanese are good at rushing things into production. But even they have modified their approach. Take for example Yamaha's MT and Suzuki's B King. Then we are told Buell had the XB patents \ designs \ whatever well in place way back in the 1990's. Should we be criticising Buell for taking so long to bring it to production? I don't think so. What is important is that these bikes, the KTM RC8, the Buell 1125R, whatever else wacky comes along, make it to production. The timescale is not so important providing I don't lose my teeth or hair in between showing the concept to launching the production version. Oh wait, I think I feel a loose tooth in my head. Those bloody Austrians. Rocket | ||
| Glitch |
I for one would love to throw a leg over it and give it a try. The last KTM demo was the same route as we do for MB. I can't wait for them to bring the bike up to the mountains. I wasn't really impressed with the new Super Duke. | ||
| Teddagreek |
Hey... Rockets back.... I might actually visit the site more now.... I fell head over heels when I saw the 1098 but at her price she broke my heart... The 1125r gave me a crush RC8 is tugging at my heart strings.... If you had to choose a first year bike I think you'd be luckier with the KTM seeing their track record.. Its a waiting game now... I want see both hands on first.. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I believe there is adequate criticism to be placed at the feet of Buell were the production numbers similar. KTM has been slow on nearly all their street models. How long did the Super Duke take to bring to the US market? I believe the benefit (and curse) Buell has is in keeping projects under wraps until unveiled (or killed). I do wish they had followed through with the dirt bike. I hope that the future will mean that project will return. I think our perceptions here are a little different than there simply because you guys tend to be able to get your hands on KTMs a little easier than we can. Here, they tend to be rare and expensive. I am really interested in the 690 Duke, but I doubt we will see many here, and if we do the dealer doesn't allow test rides. | ||
| Spike |
I think that is a *huge* part of the rift in KTM perception between the US and the UK. Here in the US we were shown the Superduke back in '03 sometime with some big claimed HP numbers. It didn't arrive till '07, and when it did get here it was $14k and only making ~105rwhp. For perspective, that's on part with the rwhp of a Superhawk, which Honda delivered to us back in 1997. The Superduke is still a great bike and I'm glad that we have one more option for a performance v-twin, but in contrast with the hype the bike generated it seems that the actual product is too little too late. We've been looking at pictures of the RC8 since '04 and we're now being told it'll be here for '09. I'm sure it will still be a real stunner when it gets here, but it's not nearly as exciting as it was ~3 years ago. In the case of the 1125R, the bike was shown to us for the first time in July of '07 and by September of '07 I was able to ride one around the track at speed. Now it's November and some buyers already have received a ship date. I have no idea how long it will take in the UK, but here in the US we're looking at less than 6 months from the first unveiling until owners are actually taking delivery. | ||
| Trojan |
I have no idea how long it will take in the UK, but here in the US we're looking at less than 6 months from the first unveiling until owners are actually taking delivery. I ordered an 1125R in July, and was told that it would be available in November. I was also told (by a senior Buell UK employee) that there would be a full test fleet of 1125's at the motorcycle show this month. Since July I have heard nothing from my dealer, and when I ring them they have absolutely no idea of any delivery dates. January has been guessed at, as has March, but to be honest nobody here as a clue. There will be just one 1125R on the Buell stand at the show and no test fleet as promised. KTM have had the RC8 under development for a long time, but have only just announced that it is ready for release and will be in the shops in March. Part of the delay was due to a complete redesign of the engine (It shares nothing with the original design) in order to improve performance and bring it up to 1148cc. If KTM say it will be available for sale in March than I fully expect that the bike will be ready on that date. Unfortunately the UK's allocation of 300 bikes is already pre-sold apparently, although more may be made available. From KTM: "the most powerful twin ever!" I guess they haven't seen the 1098R. You have to remember that the RC8 being released now is not the full on race version, and is the equivalent of the base model 1098 rather than the 1098R. In that respect it is "the most powerful twin ever!" Next year KTM will release the homologation special RC8-R to compete directly against the 1098R. This version will have the full fat 1190cc engine and allegedly close to 200bhp. | ||
| Davegess |
Ya gotta wonder about the Buell UK folks. Do they have any idea what they are doing? The Germans and the French seem on the ball but all I hear about Buell UK is horror stories. | ||
| Court |
The Germans and the French have made huge advances . . . largely due to folks like Jean Luc who are true enthusiasts. There are at least 3 European countries where the HD Euro folks . . . well "Just don't get it". The reports from EIMCA this year are embarrassing. I'm trying to work up the courage to share them with some of the folks at Buell but don't wanna take another ride through the "shoot the messenger" wringer. It's a shame to see some of the most enthusiastic Buell advocates, John Warr, included being doused in cold water. I'll be eager to see if and how this changes. I think Buell could be one of the major players in the European market. | ||
| Ebear |
Hey Erik and friends...John Warr needs....no , DESERVES an 1125R first!! He has supported the Brand for ,well , I don't need to tell YOU! Please , send him MINE FIRST!...I'll wait a couple more months....well...OK , I might not be so happy waiting but at least it's ALLWAYS SUNNY here so when mine does come I will be out riding that day!Those guys who live in Snowbound areas are just gonna sit and Stare at theirs!!!!(so , just send them cardboard props....they won't notice till spring , ya know!!)  | ||
| Trojan |
Most enthusiasts and owners here in the UK would fall into the category of Love the bike-hate the company, and unfortunately that is entirely due to Buell UK's ineptitude, lack of interest and lack of comittment to the brand. I for one know that the attitude of Erik Buell, the Buell factory and personnel could not be more different to that of the UK agents, and that they are extremely helpful, knowledgeable and seriously keen to promote the brand. Unfortunately the average UK owner has no contact with the factory so can only judge the company on it's UK subsidiary, and that is where the problem lies. I think that the most positive course for Buell to take would be to handle the distribution network in house, make it separate from the national H-D importers and get rid of the independant national franchisees. At least this way the level of comittment would be the same right across the board and Erik would have some measure of control over his distributors. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Huh. Buells being distributed by those who are disinterested in the success of the bike? Never heard of that. | ||
| Blake |
The true proof of performance is in the entire power-band of an engine, not just peak HP. | ||
| Jimidan |
The delay in delivery of the 1125R was probably in-part due to the comments that they received from those who rode the preproduction models, and the modifications necessary to address any of the salient issues. I would rather see them be 'late' a few of weeks and fix this stuff (easy way) than to have to do it the hard way. With regards to a comparo between the KTM RC8 and the 1125R, the Buell looks better on paper...if for no other reason than the trilogy of technology. As for cost, KTM is sure proud of the Super Duke, according to its price tag, so I would bet that the RC8 will be no different. My guess is that the SRP of the RC8 will come in at around $15,000+ US (taxes and lic. add'l), and there will be no discounts at the dealerships. In comparison, the KTM seems downright dated to me, maybe because it is an older design. Remember the lessons of the VR1000. (Message edited by jimidan on November 19, 2007) (Message edited by jimidan on November 19, 2007) | ||
| Davegess |
I would think an 1125R would be very attractively priced in Europe with the dollar being so weak. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thats what has me puzzled Dave. With the exchange rate being what it is, somebody is making a staggering profit margin on a UK sold Buell (though maybe it's the UK government in the form or taxes etc). If you compare Pound / Euro prices to USD prices, there is like a 20%+ profit going... somewhere... in the deal You would think that with that kind of margin, you would have the incentive to sell some... | ||
| Blake |
But maybe they paid for their Buells back before the dollar declined? | ||
| Starter |
Bikes cost what they cost. When I bought my XB9R the AUS$1 = US$0.48. And I got it for exactly the same price as any punter who bought one last week when it was AUS$1 = US$0.92. KTM sees, and markets themselves as a pretigious brand pure and simple just like Buell is in Australia, similar to Ducati and Aprilia. Generally we pay a little more $ for something that in some aspects is inferior in value to the Japanese brands. But the best part is when I go anywhere I can be assured that mine will be the only one there. Niche brands generally tart their bikes up with fairly reasonable accessories like suspension, rims etc to replace the generic gear found on the run of the mill motorcycles. | ||
| Trojan |
But maybe they paid for their Buells back before the dollar declined? It never seems to matter what the exchange rate is, Buells (and most other stuff) are more expensive here than in the US. This is due to taxes mostly, but also customs duties, import tax etc... Having said that, when the US$ was 1.5 to the UK Pound the XB cost exactly the same as it does now the dollar is over 2 to the Pound, so somone is definitely making money from it. In comparison, the KTM seems downright dated to me, maybe because it is an older design. Maybe you should take a look at the RC8 web site at http://www.ktm-rc8.net before coming to the conclusion that it is dated. I would prefer to call it 'well developed'. I think it will be very interesting when the 1125R, 1098 and RC8 are tested back to back when they are all available.} | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
From the KTM web site..." Innovative under-floor exhaust system..." I wouldn't call it innovative. I think I've seen it before. | ||
| Jimidan |
Maybe you should take a look at the RC8 web site at http://www.ktm-rc8.net before coming to the conclusion that it is dated. I would prefer to call it 'well developed'. I think it will be very interesting when the 1125R, 1098 and RC8 are tested back to back when they are all available. I looked again and I will say it again, that the Buell is a much more modern design with the front rim mounted brake disc, the gas in the frame (lower center of gravity), belt drive, etc. The KTM' conventional design is similar in technology to my 2001 Ducati 996R, except that it does not have Ohlins all around. Nothing new here boss. That is not to say that the KTM will not work great, as I think that its experience in GP250 racing has shown that. It will be interesting to see the comparios of those three bikes. | ||
| Trojan |
the gas in the frame (lower center of gravity), belt drive, etc. The KTM' conventional design is similar in technology to my 2001 Ducati 996R, The KTM carries it's fuel under the seat, which would probably give as low a centre of gravity as the fuel n the frame Buells. Especially when you consider that most of the fuel in the XB/1125 is carried towards the front upper part of the frame rails. I'm not saying the KTM would be better, but it would be closer than you may think. except that it does not have Ohlins all around. KTM owns White Power suspension, so is highly unlikely to use Ohlins. Top of the range WP is as good or better than current Ohlins sport bike forks/shocks, and was used on the British Supersport winning Suzuki GSXR600 in 2007 amongst others. |
