| Author | Message | ||
     Fuscat |
I thought it might be a good place to *positively* share tips and tricks for good street riding skills. A place to ask questions on technique and such. I am not a complete newbie on the street, this is my 3rd season on a street bike. I have been riding on dirt bikes and atv's for quite a while. But there are alot of good things to be picked up from you more experienced guys. One of my problems is cornering. I know you should go to the outside of the corner on entrance and continue the line around while keeping your head & eyes level. However my S1 tends to want to corner on its own and it picks the inside path most of the time. What is the best way to handle corners? Anyone else got any questions? I can't be the only one a little unsure of themselves in certain riding scenarios. | ||
| Dynarider |
2 rules that I live by. #1. Avoid target fixation, your bike will go where you look. #2. Look thru the corner, look where you want to go. Dont look directly in front of your bike, look 100-200 yds down the rd where you are going. | ||
| Mikej |
Since you did say street riding the number one rule is that there is no absolute rule. Streets are not often swept, intersections and access to the roads are not controlled nor cleared, and you just never know who or what is around the next corner or about to cross diagonally in front of you. Streets also have variable amounts of camber and variably designed increasing or decreasing radius corners, and well as a multitude of surface variations, potholes, asphalt sealer (tar snake goo), and gouges in the pavement from some tractor or boat engines that came loose and left a 1" deep tire grabber rut in your chosen line. And not to mention all sorts of gravel and other debris that gets kicked up from rain runoff and from cars and trucks meandering off the shoulder spraying junk onto the corner. Then there are all the leaky radiators, gas tanks, transmissions, and whatnot dumping all sorts of additional slick stuff right down the middle of the lane. General rule of thumb is to ride the tire tracks, partly due to the slick stuff potentially in the middle of each lane between the tire tracks, and partly due to the indents in the roadway that the numerous cars and trucks have left depressions from their travel in. Tucking to the inside of the corner is a good way to meet a '58 GMC with loose steering running wide in the opposite direction. The best thing to do is to maybe always try to leave yourself some exit or stay within a controllable speed. On a track you can often ride between 75%-100% of your's and your bike's potential. On the street you want to dial that way back depending on the conditions. Just like when on the track if there are lots of beginners with unpredictable behavior you may have to leave a lot of additional room when passing someone or riding next to them, on the street you need to leave yourself some additional comfort zone. I know there are many riders on the street who crank edge to edge, peg to peg, on blind corners on back roads. But when you come around a corner dragging a knee at 120mph and find a tractor or dead skunk right on your line whatchagonnado? Sometimes you need to go tight to the inside, sometimes you need to swing wide, each road and situation is different. In some areas around here you can crank hard on a Sunday morning until around 9am, then you have to scale it way way back due to horse patties left in the lane by church goin' wagon riders. In other areas you need to scale it way back on Saturday mornings due to numerous bicyclists on the back roads out for training or recreational rides. Some afternoons you can crank hard down a two-lane straightaway at 90+mph, but on the day that Grandma Mable drives her '78 Lincoln to the local PigglyWiggly grocery store she may just pull right out in front of you out of her blind treelined driveway. Stay within condition limits, and adjust your line as it suits the situation. There are no absolutes, except that crashing absolutely sucks. And regarding that head and eyes level thing, watch some good roadracers on a track sometime, their heads are rarely level.  YMMV, usual disclaimers apply, meaningless drivel, ignore everything I just typed, I know nothing, I just ride and get where I'm going when I get there.  | ||
| Bomber |
also, remember that just cuz your tires are on your side of the double yellow (or single yellow, or high point on the road for some Rustic Roads) doesn't mean the rest of you is . . . . . your noggin can be right smack dab in the middle of a peterbuilt grill wwhile your wheels are firmly on your side of the road head level is good if you like it, of little use if ya don't need it YMMV, as our resident poet said | ||
| Cjmblast |
Tucking to the inside of the corner is a good way to meet a '58 GMC with loose steering running wide in the opposite direction. This may be a dumb question, but if you are in a corner going left and tuck inside the above statement may be true. But if your in a corner going right and tuck inside, then your likely to be further away from the 58 GMC, right ???? CJM  | ||
| Rocketman |
Put yourself (mentally) where anyone else might be. Observation and anticipation and never hesitate. Rocket  | ||
| Fuscat |
Good stuff guys! The eyes level was just something I heard on a tv show last night on the speed channel. What about weight shifting/leaning. I think that is where I get a little freaked out. I hear alot of guys talk about grinding their pegs. I have never gotten that far over I would think the back end would slide out from under you at that sharp of a lean. I would love to go to one of the Riding schools mentioned in the other post but I don't think that their are any around here in Kansas City. Any of you mobbers know any? | ||
| Dynarider |
A little weight shifting is fine, but if you are hanging off & trying to get a knee down on the street, you are simply riding too damn fast for the street. | ||
| Bomber |
as Rocket said, l'audace, toujour l'audace (sp?) hesitation kills . . . . paranoia is a usful state of mind, but nothing replaces a well developed situational awareness (always have an out planned) weighting DOES help, and since you didn't mention getting a knee down on the street, I figure you know how silly that would be . . . . get on a road you knw well and practice . . . .b'trax are great for this kinda thing (in spite of what some might say) . . . . | ||
| Mikej |
CJ, Running wide is running wide regardless of which way the turn is turning. If the truck's tires are on the same line as the bike's tires then it gets messy fast. I've ducked under a few bumpers by a little bit in my past, live and learn. Weight shift is more than hanging off, it's also peg weighting and a bunch of other stuff. Find a copy of http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0941950077/qid=1056568951/sr=1-5/r ef=sr_1_5/103-1642778-0786256?v=glance&s=books or other books teaching you how to corner on two wheels when the bike is less than 20Lbs and the tires are less than 1" wide. Fuscat, Find a local BattleTrax event. You'll learn a lot about cornering. Learning what a bike is capable of can save you at times if you end up in an extreme situation. | ||
| Fuscat |
Thanks for the tips guys! I will have to see if there is any battle trax events going on around here. Something I never even thought of was going to the library and looking for books that may pertain. | ||
| Cjmblast |
Running wide is running wide regardless of which way the turn is turning. Well I don't corner well sometimes, so I was just wondering, guess I don't understand much better than I corner !!! CJM | ||
| Mikej |
Well, actually  , thinking about it some, in a right hand turn in the U.S. driving on the right side of the road, if the GMC were running wide in the opposite direction and if the bike were ducking to the inside of the right turn, then there should be plenty of room. But if the bike were running wide in a right hander and if the truck in the opposite direction were ducking to it's inside left hander (opposite direction) then it would be the messy situation mentioned earlier. Regardless, it's always best to avoid hitting trucks with a bike. Now, if rider-A were turning left and inside in Denmark and if rider-B were turning right and inside in Tennessee, would either of them drag a knee? I think I'll go sit in the corner now and wait for it to rain so I can ride home. | ||
| Bomber |
my brain hurts! Cat . . . .see also Keith Code's books, although they can get a little preachy and esoteric from time to time Nick Ienatch (sp?) also has a new book out, and his writings over the years about what he refers to as "The Pace" has me believing that I'll be ordering the book, and soon. | ||
| Cjmblast |
Now, if rider-A were turning left and inside in Denmark and if rider-B were turning right and inside in Tennessee, would either of them drag a knee? I don't know, but if he's from Tennessee then I bet he's married to his sister !!! LOL CJM (iwanttobejustlikemikej) | ||
| Buellbob |
Fuscat, Never get too complacent. Always think ahead, whats the possible scenerio if I go here or do this, what could possibly go wrong. I just recently put my bike down rather than hit a car. I got complacent, going to work at 4:00 am everyday very little traffic and started to make a left turn with out even thinking about it except that morning there was a car coming towards me in the lane I wanted to turn into. So split second decision here, put bike down or hit car. the real scary thing was if he had been in his proper lane I would have been his hood ornament. With the amount of traffic out there these days there is just no room for track type riding on the street. Bob. | ||
| Ara |
If your tire is just inside the center line in a left-hander your head and shoulders are in the opposing lane and you may get tagged violently by oncomming traffic. Similarly, in a right-hander you could smack a mailbox, a treelimb, a pedestrian, or somebody's pet. My rules of riding: 1. Never ride when you're emotionally upset or under the influence of anything stronger than coffee. 2. You have one job while riding. Do not distract yourself with stray thoughts, worries, music, etc. Riding a high performance motorcycle is a physical AND mental discipline. 3. Check your bike over before you go riding just like a pilot preflights his aircraft. 4. Buy a Battery Tender and an accurate tire pressure guage and use them religiously. 5. Ride with earplugs. If you don't you'll develop tenitus (ringing in the ears) as the nerve damage accumulates over time. 6. Ride like you're invisible, naked, and they really are out to get you. 7. Watch out for autos with body damage, broken side mirrors, misbehaving children inside, and drivers talking on their cell phones. These are your danger signals. 8. Practice road surface awareness always, even when driving in your car. Remember that fall leaves are pretty, but they're slicker than ice when they're wet. 9. You are a motorcycle ambassador. Ride like you represent us all, because you do. 10. This last one is a personal one and may not apply to everybody: Never loan your motorcycle to anyone. His chances of having a damaging mishap on your machine are far greater than yours. | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Dyna is right on the first comment about the "Target Fixation". Do not look directly in front of the bike, look to where you want to go!!!! I teach the Motorcycle Training Course up this way and when we get the students to do the slow speed slaloms we always tell them to look where they want to go - look through the corner. When I see them look down at the pylons they almost 100% of the time hit one. Oh Yeah and if your ever riding at night up here in Newfoundland please watch out for the moose, you can always tell them by the reflection in their eyes - they are large (some over 1000lbs), brown and blend in perfectly with the background. If they are back on to you then your SCREWED!!!!! Just be safe, take your time and use your head. | ||
| Mistaandypants |
I've bought many motorcycle riding technique books lately but I have to say my favorite is this new one I got a couple of months ago. Sport Riding Techniques: How To Develop Real World Skills for Speed, Safety, and Confidence on the Street and Track by Nick Ienatsch available at amazon for $17.47 All the things mentioned here from peg weighting to body position cornering braking etc... are explained in great detail with a clarity I have yet to find anywhere else. The good writing and great pictures makes it an enjoyable read while being educational. This and a copy of Proficient Motorcycling by David Hough and you'll have some of the best street riding education you can get. Much better than the narrow sliver of advice you could get here. Sorry Guys! : ) I personally wouldn't bother with the Keith Code books unless you want to start racing on a track. Plus they are so poorly written I can barely get through them. just my 2 cents | ||
| Reepicheep |
As for lean, my experience has been that getting a knee down totally upsets the balance of my Cyclone. I am much better off (and faster through corners) with elbows out, leaned way out over the front of the bike. My head is right about over the end of the handlebar that is on the inside of my turn. It gives you lots of leverage on the bars, gives you a great low and centralized center of gravity, and is a great position to look through the turn. It also sets you up nicely for a quicker transition to the next turn. As for line, I pick the one that gives me the best visibility through a turn, keeps an escape margin, and avoids road hazzards. Another thing to note that cost me my only lowside to date.... the further you lean over, the less suspension travel you have. At full "scraping pegs" lean, your only suspension is the flex of the sidewall of your tires. If you hit a hole or bump more then an inch or two deep, you have a total lack of traction, as the most important role of suspension is to keep the tires in contact with the road. Potholes are obvious, but sinkholes are not. I went back after the lowside and saw two black skidmarks where my tires reconnected to the pavement on the other side of an invisible sinkhole about 5 inches wide, 4 inches deep, and 18 inches long. Not a pothole, but just a perfectly smooth edged low spot in the pavement. Effectively invisible at speed. Had my body positioning been such that the bike was not so far leaned, even on the same line at the same speed, I might not have gone down. | ||
| Nevco1 |
Learn to get off your arse, weight the pegs and ride the crud (sand, loose gravel, etc.) dirt bike style. You will be amazed how well your Buell handles the stuff and how easily these simple accidents can be prevented. Have ridden my X1 off road and on roads under construction with deep loose sand and gravel without incident. In fact, the X1 handles almost as well as my old KLR desert sled. Perhaps better with the bigger front tire. Note: Cruiserphiles are exempt from this technique.  | ||
| Fuscat |
See I knew you guys would be a good source! I think I will look into getting that book you mentioned on payday Andy! I appreciate all the tips. I just want to better my skills how ever I can. I have not found any riding schools locally yet. They have track days here but from what I hear I want no part of that yet. Its usually open for cars & bikes both I believe. Sounds like an accident waiting to happen. I just want to be a confident rider that can keep up! I think I have done pretty well on the street so far. I don't get crazy. But I am still intimidated by certain things. I guess like all things alot of it will come with time. | ||
| Mikej |
Ride within your limits and abilities. Ride your own ride. Ride for the present conditions you find yourself in. Ride, ride, ride. Pretty simple really. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I agree with Nevco1... go beg, borrow, rent, or steal a dirt bike, and spend an afternoon on it in a totally muddy field. Get practiced sliding the back, the front, and both sides. Practice off camber, on camber, no camber, and "oh crap" camber turns. Dont stop until you can slide the back at will with no pucker. | ||
| Daves |
Fuscat, We have several track day/riding schools days planned at MidAmerica Motorplex in Glenwood Iowa. Next one is July 7th and I can still sign you up if you call me today. We also have a BattleTrax event planned for July 20th and another one for Aug 17th. Ride to the edge! Dave HD/Buell Cycle center Waterloo Ia 1-800-342-7539 ext 211 Iowa HD/Buell (Buell Cycle Center) dave@iowaharley.com edited by Daves on June 27, 2003 | ||
| Usapitbullz |
Target Fixation! Look where you want to go. Don't look at the telephone pole, or the tree, but where you want to go. Look Ahead! I have seen my fair share of cycle accidents and its amazing how many riders end up hitting a tree, telephone pole, or something else with a narrow surface area, its because of TARGET FIXATION! I also do a lot of skydiving, (Yes I'm doubley "Cool" I do everything dangerous), which uses the same principal for moving around in the sky, we basically look were we want to go, basically. Your head will take you were you want to go, this principal works very well for multi-directional movement of a speeding object, i.e. YOU! Be Aware! Look Ahead! Don't Fixate on something! Dave, I wish I could get up to the trackday at MAM gotta try out the new Nallin system. But being on House Arrest makes it difficult. Well I'm not really on house arrest, just can't leave town!   BTW: Fuscat, I have a Keith Code DVD I could loan ya, it's kinda cheesy, and old, but the principals for racing are there. It's called "Twist Of The Wrist" L8R, Joe | ||
| Fuscat |
DaveS- No can do on the seventh. All my time off is about used up. My wedding is in september and its out of town as well as the honeymoon so I am limited to weekends. I will have to see if one of the battletrax events can be worked out though! About how far away are these events from KC? UsaPitBullz- Man that would be cool of you to loan me the DVD. I would appreciate that! | ||
| Daves |
About 5 hours from KC in Waterloo Iowa. Shazam and a few other mobbers are coming, ride up with them. Dave | ||
| Bigblock |
Another important thing regarding our bikes... make sure your tire pressure is correct and your suspension is adjusted properly for ride height front and rear, and that the damping is balanced front to rear, the easiest way to accomplish this is, after setting your ride height to factory specs(its in the owners manual)set the compression damping front and rear so that the bike settles evenly(as in the suspension compresses an equal amount and at an equal speed , front and rear) when you sit on the bike in riding position. Doing these simple adjustments will make a huge difference in how your bike will follow a chosen line. Plus, it'll just plain handle better. Have fun- shiny side up, rubber on the road. Ray | ||
| Dasxb9s |
Fuscat... I know of a couple of good books on riding skills. I got copies at Barnes & nobles. Tonight I will log on and give you the titles. The best teacher in addition to asking and reading... is miles down the road. The more you ride... the better you can learn your limitations as it relates to the bike's limits... the limits of common sense... and "street" survival skills. It is not paranoia if all the cages ARE really out to get you!!! Later... | ||
| Dasxb9s |
Fuscat... get out your wallet or library card... Proficient Motorcycling - The ultimate guide to riding well... by David L. Hough MORE Proficient Motorcycling - Mastering the ride (I hate the title will explain below) by David L. Hough The Motorcycle Safety Foundation's Guide To Motorcycling Excellence and this will have advanced skill information... Sport Riding Techniques - by Nick Ienatsch ...all great books for beginners to experienced rider... great need to know info... and a great reminder of some things we all have shoved to the back of our memory after years of riding. I thumb through them often... like reference books. I also have had my fiancee read them... and my son will when he begins his motorcycle training. About the title... I hate the term "Mastering the ride" I am a firm believer that once someone thinks they have mastered the motorcycle... considering the outside forces that can impact on one's skills... they have become over confident... in my line of work I believe the most dangerous thing is having a self confidence level that exceed one's skill level. Like someone thinking they have mastered horseback riding... though a horse has a brain (some will argue that) it is not in sync with the riders idea of what will happen next. Ask Christopher Reeves. I think if I ever think I have mastered the motorcycle... I should sell my bikes and NEVER ride again. I believe it is possible for one to constantly learn... through their years of riding becoming more proficient... but never able to know it all... or be the master of the ride. Too many things... situations... outside forces impact on one's daily ride. I think the worst and some time most over confident are motorcycle cops. ...and I know a bunch... they get some GREAT training... but I think many get over confident with their skills. Like the Independence cop who crashed into the rear of the corvette in the car chase... yep... the bad guys just might slam on the brakes... or the habit of riding CHiP style... side by side in the same lane. I know of two who were riding off duty and during a turn crossed and locked handle bars through a turn... and when the story was told... after the second part of the turn after a very short straight stretch... it was their great skill that let them work the entanglement free... not realizing how lucky they were... ...or one of the same guys... who was zooming over a blind hill at way to fast considering it was a blind hill... to find the street flooded from a broken water main... and 8 inches of water for a couple of blocks... he apparently locked up both from and rear... and used down shifting to engine brake to burn off speed in time... so as to not enter the water so fast and do the "rock skipping over the water" crash. Beyond that... cops are the worst dressed for the street and the most likely to take a serious fall during their career. Look at the German motorcycle cops... full leathers... racing quality and full face helmets. I like the guys... but if they insist on the side-by-side formation, and when more that two riders... 1 1/2 bike length behind the first two... even off duty... I will never ride with them... it closes too many options when a problem happens... limiting evasive action. Sorry... I am on a rant!!! My favorite quote is... "Shit happens, and more shit happens when you're learning, and shit happens a lot faster on a high performance bike" Long winded... but to the point... some great books. Go to Barnes & Noble... take a seat... and check them out... | ||
| Dasxb9s |
Oops... That would be "locked up both front and rear". A $1500.00 computer... and the stupid think can't spel. | ||
| Fuscat |
Das- Great info! I appreciate it. Next paycheck I will go see about the first one. I am on a one at a time budget! I have noticed the Independence PD bike patrol myself. I kind of thought they were a little under dressed. I would think in the event of a chase or altercation they would need more protection then the average rider! | ||
| Dynarider |
Dennis, I hear ya on the cop thing. Went on a poker run with the Blue Knights out of chicago last year. What a joke it was. Those guys were on their street bikes & acted as if they were still on the cop bikes. Red lights??? Nahh, no reason to even slow down for them. Passing cars on double yellows, no problem either. Then the run heads up towards Wisconsin & they get totally lost, the further off course they get the faster & the worse they rode. I finally passed em up & got them to stop & told them they were going the wrong way. The morons didnt want to listen to me because what the hell could private joe citizen know that a cop couldnt posssibly know? Funny thing was as soon as I made a hard left outta there they all followed behind me to the next stop. | ||
| Dasxb9s |
Fuscat... When I was IPD... for some reason most of the wheelmen selectees were officers who had never been on a motorcycle before... there are two theories. I am a firearms instructor... and if I had a choice... I would rather teach a student who had never shot before. Those who have shot before... and particularly those self taught... have bad habits learned you must get them to un-learn... or at the least reprogram muscle memory of previous training which is different from the current agency training concepts. It takes about 5,000 repetitions to build muscle memory. An example of muscle memory. When a new shooter holsters a weapon... they usually have to look down and visually guide the weapon in the holster... after muscle memory develops... that is no longer needed... 2nd part of the example... stand up... look at a point far off... and put your right hand in your pocket. Did you have to look down??? Of course not... you have done this a zillion times and the muscle memory is long ago established. So... after rambling on... I am thinking IPD wanted a clean slate of a never before rode a bike to build their training on... so nothing had to be unlearned... Having said that... I also KNOW that back then it was more office politics that got guys the prime assignments!!! Oh well!! I hated writing tickets... so I was not going to change that to get to ride a scooter at work. But that was a loooooong time ago! | ||
| Loki |
I like Codes' books. The trick is to read lightly and in steps. Otherwise info overload will set in and the zzzzzz will follow. Just reading Twist II showed up some awful flaws in my own little world. Now my copy has lots of highlighted highlights. Never hurts to pick the book up and refresh the memory banks. Just waiting for Nick's book |
