| Author | Message | ||
     Buellinachinashop |
Shhhh! Cities Ask Bikers To Muffle Their Motorcycles MILWAUKEE -- Cities from New York to Denver are giving motorcyclists the silent treatment. That worries riders rights groups, which fear that a wave of ordinances aimed at muffling Harley-Davidsons, hushing Hondas and stifling Suzukis will create a confusing patchwork of laws that motorcyclists won't be able to navigate. The motorcycle industry is concerned it could turn these frustrated riders away. "From our perspective, this creates enormous problems for us because people notice the one motorcycle that makes a lot of noise," said Bill Wood, spokesman for the American Motorcyclist Association. "They don't notice the 50 that pass that don't. So there's a perception that motorcycles are noisy." Ordinances come in many forms. Some are against certain types of products - like mufflers that would rattle the apples off of trees - while others are aimed more on the intent of the driver, who may want to turn some heads or rile up the neighbors on a Sunday afternoon. -As of July 1, riders in New York City are subject to a minimum $440 fine for having a muffler or exhaust system that can be heard within 200 feet. -In Lancaster, Pa., starting this month riders - and all motor vehicle drivers - could be ticketed for drawing attention to themselves, whether by creating too much noise by revving their engines or doing hard accelerations. Tickets start at $150. -As of July 1, motorcyclists in Denver could be ticketed $500 for putting mufflers on their bikes made by someone other than the original manufacturer, if the bike is 25 years old or less. These so-called after-market products can be louder than their manufacturer-made counterparts. Denver's plan is unique because it targets the after-market equipment. Wood said it limits riders' freedom to choose what products to use. Many motorcyclists who need to replace parts use these products, rather than go to a dealer, which can be more expensive, Wood said. Ordinances restricting motorcycle noise have been around for years. The American Motorcyclist Association does not track the numbers of such ordinances and often only hears about them just as they're being passed, Wood said. The association would rather see an ordinance that targets all vehicles or uses a decibel test to measure actual noise output. The changes leave riders confused, said Pamela Amette, vice president of the Motorcycle Industry Council, the industry's trade group. Enforcement can be subjective, too. The Council is working with the American Society of Engineers to establish a sound test that would help equalize enforcement. A similar test has been set for off-road bikes, and several states have adopted it, Amette said. The group hopes to have the test ready next year. The new tests could even heighten demand for quieter systems, she said, because riders will know what they need. "Unless it's very precise and adopted uniformly, then it's just really not fair to the riders and to the industry," Amette said. The stakes for the industry are big. There were 1.1 million new motorcycles sold for $9.8 billion in 2005, the most recent year available, the Council said. Parts, including those after-market mufflers, accessories and riding apparel, were an additional $2.8 billion. Noise complaints of all types are on the rise, as more Americans feel they are losing control of their neighborhoods, said Ted Rueter, who leads a national anti-noise group. Denver's ordinance is music to his ears. "I think more and more people are putting pressure on communities," said Rueter, director of Noise Free America, based in Madison, Wis. "That fact that Denver has done so is going to give a lot of encouragement to people who love peace and quiet." Harley-Davidson Inc., which tried in the 1990s to trademark its products' distinctive rumble, is monitoring the growth of anti-noise ordinances that target motorcyclists, said Rebecca Bortner, a Harley spokeswoman. The Milwaukee-based motorcycle maker feels the issue is less about the equipment and more about what riders do with it. The company asked its dealers a few years ago to stop carrying the loudest of after-market mufflers, straight unmuffled pipes, Bortner said. Harley is asking dealers to encourage riders to be considerate, she said. Sometimes, that means riders should put a bike in neutral when they're in a driveway. They can fire up the engine down the street. "You hear about jackhammers in New York City and people who live close to airports," Bortner said. "We are very sympathetic to that, but our stance is that we're really encouraging riders to take steps to be considerate and socially responsible about it." All motorcycles sold for road use in the U.S. are subject to federal noise laws keeping them within a certain range of decibels, below 80 decibels from 50 feet away, said the industry council's Amette. A good rule of thumb is that your average motorcycle - as approved by government standards - should hum like a sewing machine, she said. But some bikes are louder. That happens when bikers buy after-market equipment, either for the sound or for more heightened performance. Manufacturers divide their motorcycle products into two types - for highway use and off-road, which is more performance-based and sometimes louder. You can buy a road bike and then add an off-road muffler, which means it'll be louder on the street. That's what Denver's ordinance aims to stop. Enforcement has been minimal, said Wade Eldridge, a motorcycle-riding lawyer representing a handful of riders who have been ticketed so far. He said they're trying to get the ordinance declared unconstitutional because it creates two classes of motorcyclists. Rider Dave Christy, of Golden, Colo., said he knows some bikers now avoid Denver rather than deal with the new ordinance. The problem is riders who enjoy being loud without a thought to people who live nearby, he said. Christy, a 53-year-old mechanic, uses after-market mufflers on his bikes, but he knows when not to be loud. "What came out of the ordinance is a result of what motorcyclists pretty much brought down on themselves," he said. | ||
| Xl1200r |
At least if we make a ton of noise, cops are going to start looking for a FatBoy and ignore us entirely! | ||
| Thespive |
Well, maybe someone will start offering quieter performance exhausts now. --Sean | ||
| Mikej |
Have fun: http://www.bikernet.com/news/PageViewer.asp?PageID =902 My next bike (I'll probably need headphones so I don't disturb the neighbors)  | ||
| Diablobrian |
I've been asking for quieter performance pipes for years. It is possible to get a muffler to be quiet even on a big twin while still putting down serious numbers. The original XBRR muffler is proof of that. Some people are just not happy if they aren't making other people jump through hoops to do what they enjoy. This sounds very much like one of those cases. Remember the old "If it's too loud you're too old" t-shirts? looks like some of the people that used to wear those in the 60s-70s are now spearheading these ordinances. | ||
| Kandie |
Maybe parents should be fined $1000 when their kid throws a fit and is screaming in a restaurant or anywhere out in public. | ||
| Thespive |
Someone here on BadWeb said if it is too loud I am too old in response to me asking for a quiet performance exhaust, I am 29, I don't like the hearing loss I already suffered from my Sportster with drag pipes (I was younger and dumber) and I certainly don't like disrespecting others who may not find my hobby as enjoyable as I do. It is like religion or politics, I don't want someone pushing their beliefs on me, and I don't want to push my hobby on someone else. This is how our rights get taken away, by beingdisrespectful to others. And Kande, I am sure that was sarcasm, but as a Dad I know there are times you can minimize it, but not control it. You can control loud pipes and obnoxious riders (or not?). --Sean | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Maybe parents should be fined $1000 when their kid throws a fit and is screaming in a restaurant or anywhere out in public. I think there should be an option in seating, tantrum and non-tantrum.  Goes for drunks and liberal academics as well. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
-As of July 1, riders in New York City are subject to a minimum $440 fine for having a muffler or exhaust system that can be heard within 200 feet. Hmmm, so if it can be heard more than 200 feet away it's ok, but not within 200 ft? how is that possible? | ||
| Thespive |
BTW, I don't agree with these ordinances, but I think all of should be doing more, when riding in highly populated areas, to be good stewards of the sport and be respectful to others --Sean | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
how is that possible? Cone of silence!  | ||
| Paint_shaker |
I like the nice rumble of my 98 S1W with the Vance & Hines pipe. I ride my bike mainly during daylight hours when others would operate a chain saw, a lawn mower, a blower, a dump truck, etc.... I try and avoid the neighborhoods... Who's bothering who?? Maybe I'll call in on them because the color of their house is an eyesore and makes me sick everytime I pass it!!! | ||
| Buellshyter |
People should be fined when their dogs bark between certain hours if I can hear it when I'm in my bed sleeping. Nothing irritates me more then dogs barking and babies crying. While we're at it, how about fining people when they don't make eye contact and wish me a good day when I'm getting my coffee in the morning. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I don't know of a car or truck that you can't hear even over 200 feet away. | ||
| Bads1 |
Bikes here in Racine,Wisconsin haven't been a focal point yet but car Stereo's have been. The Cop's are standing on corners and aiming decibal meter's at ya. If they can here you 75 feet away its I believe 35 bucks or something for first offense. I hear 10 loud booming car stereo's to 5 loud bikes. Funny..... just heard one now.LOL.....it was Thunder outside. | ||
| Coal400 |
A few inconsiderate idiots ruin it for the rest of us. I personally believe that a stock pipe is not safe. I don't want something that wakes up the neighborhood like a straight pipe, but the OEM is too quiet. Out on the road, 80 decibels is not loud enough to distract someone from their cell phone. I think that this ordinance is looked at as a revenue generating opportunity... one more reason to pull someone over and help balance the "county's books". | ||
| Sarodude |
If any of you are lucky enough to live someplace where splitting lanes is legal, you'll appreciate the benefits of being heard. I don't really like loud bikes. I also REALLY don't like inattentiveness on the road. Anything for a fighting chance in Metro LA. -Saro | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
Quietness The Wall Street Journal reported in February 2007 on concerns that quiet cars like the Prius may pose a safety risk to those who rely on engine noise to sense the presence or location of moving vehicles.[20] Blind pedestrians are a primary concern, and the National Federation of the Blind advocates audio emitters on hybrid vehicles,[21] but increased risks may also affect sighted pedestrians or bicyclists who use are accustomed to audio cues from vehicles. In July 2007, a spokesperson for Toyota said the company is aware of the issue and is studying options.[22] I just don't know what to do?! | ||
| Coal400 |
Ft_bstrd: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3175685257 975333224&q=Rock-a-Bye+Bear&total=61&start=0&num=1 0&so=0&type=search&plindex=0 | ||
| Daves |
Sean I am not going to speak for Kandie but I agree 100% with her. Nothing ruins a good dinner for me like parents that can't control their kids. And yes, you can control it, the parent is supposed to be in charge? If they won't shut up they should be taken home. That's the way it worked when I was a kid. When did it change? Why wasn't everyone notified? | ||
| Bads1 |
Dave,do you have kids.  How old of kids are we talking about ?? (Message edited by bads1 on August 23, 2007) | ||
| Mr_gto |
Agreed Daves, my Mom and Dad would have jerked my a$$ up and took me home to be beaten if I acted that way in public. When did listening to your parents become a choice? | ||
| Thespive |
Dave I like you and I don't disagree with you or Kandie, but I take exception to your comments. As the father of a newborn girl, I am telling you that you can't always control when they cry or when they are fussy, and when I can't, I do my best minimize the impact on others by removing my girl from the situation and calming her best I know how. My sister and I were never bad in a restaurant, because we knew the consequences from our Mom and I plan on bringing up my girl the same way. That being said, I am a responsible parent who thinks of others around me when we are out, just as I am a responsible rider who thinks of others around me when I ride. Nothing I hate more than hearing a Harley with drag pipes at midnight going by at 4 grand and I would never do that to my neighbors, community or fellow riders. Us city folk have unique challenges that those in more rural areas don't, so you should all follow our lead, because what starts here will eventually reach you. Sure, I think the stock pipe is too quiet and if Kevin still made the Quiet Drummer I would order one tomorrow or if someone came out with a performance pipe that wasn't going to have the cops looking to hassle me (or my ears bleed at freeway speeds) every time I ride, I would be the first guy in line to hand over the money. As for the lane split comment, my commute is from Orange County to West Los Angeles, 46-miles one way and at least 50-percent of the time is lane splitting on the 405 and 10. With a quiet stock bike, I find it is best to be very careful (watch mirrors and front wheels) and run a gear or two lower, thus keeping the revs up and making enough noise to be noticed, but that doesn't mean I want to hear that noise ALL OF THE TIME. I want a good sounding bike, not a noisier one. --Sean (Message edited by thespive on August 24, 2007) | ||
| Daves |
Dana, No I do not have kids, you know that. I am not talking about babies, they cry sometimes. In those cases, the parent maybe should attempt to comfort/quiet the child. Sean, sounds like you are going to raise you child right, good for you! Even better for your little girl. I think the point is, if they start fining everyone for everything that annoys someone else, where will it stop? I have a whole list of things people do that annoy the crap out of me. Who gets to make the list? | ||
| Ceejay |
I have three kids all under 7. Do I think there should be fine? No. Do I think parents should remove the kids if they don't straighten up, after a min or so. Hell yes. That's what I do. And it happens quite often-so much that we learned our lesson and don't go out to eat. Saving dough and in all honesty, eating better. On the pipe issue, basically if people can restrict themselves from flogging on it on their way home from the bar at 2:30 in the morning I'd be happy. Just like my kids interrupting someone's(including mine) dinner-there's a few jackasses that every couple of nights feel they have to punch it going down my neighborhood street and wake up my kids at 2:30 in the morning. HD's and ricers alike. I leave early in the morning-would they enjoy it if I went by their places doing the same thing? A race kit can be pretty loud if I want it too. the landscapers, tree-trimmers, construction guys have neighborhood ordinances they have to follow-is it coming down to where the bikes are going to have to do this too? | ||
| Mikej |
I figure I've got 40,000-50,000 miles of time on the white line splitting traffic in SoCal when I lived down there (we won't talk about mirror tapping). Saw quite a bit of stuff. Sometimes louder pipes on bikes would get people to widen the gap, sometimes they'd turn their head and naturally the car would go in the direction they were looking and the gap would narrow, two-sided coin, sometimes it's the good side, sometimes not. Lots of cars get designed and advertised as being exceptionally quiet inside, to the point that you have police and fire and emergency responder agencies complaining about it and about them not being heard when on the way to a call even with their sirens and airhorns blasting and bonking and honking out belching sounds. Loud pipes sometimes help, sometimes hurt, but don't do a bit of good if the driver of the car you're trying to get the attention of is legally deaf. Best thing I've found to get attention is light, not constantly on light, but light that you can turn on as needed. The two running lights I added to the M2 don't help much at speed on a dark road at night, they do help at slow speed on a dark driveway though, but where they really shine (pun intended) is in getting driver's attention when I turn them on. (politics mode on) Noise legislation is akin to helmet legislation, seat belt legislation, eye protection legislation, gun/firearm legislation, knife legislation, and so on. All it does is attempt to legislate controls on people that are not really necessary to place on decent people because decent reasonably prudent people operate under control. Sure, decent reasonably prudent people can be prone to exceeding the speed limit and having a little fun and blowing off a little steam from time to time, but they do so with consideration to others around them. They do not say "hey buddy do you mind - I'm on the phone", instead they simply smile and move around a corner and continue their conversation, they shouldn't have to, but they do. Laws don't do a damn thing relative to criminals because criminals by definition operate outside the law. Laws do get regular reasonably prudent people, however, to find ways to circumvent the constrictive laws while still operating with consideration to those around them. Concealed carry of a firearm is an example of this. Figuring out what alternative options are available relative to personal safety and security while complying with airline regulations is another example of this, that's where the "art" comes in from "martial arts". The BS attempted legislation of mandating one custom bike per person per lifetime is jackSht legislation in my opinion as it does not apply to aircraft or other forms of transportation as far as I know. Wisconsin already has a law on the books about "disorderly conduct" which could easily apply to overly loud exhausts, but being that it is very subjective in the nature of any charges or complaints made within the parameters of that particular law it is prone to abuse. We live next door to a wolf hybrid, we had a complaint lodged against us because our dogs were barking inside our house at 9pm and a neighbor heard it, but that very same neighbor never complains about the wolf howling outside on the second story deck at midnight, 1am, 2am, 4am, and so forth, very subjectively applied noise ordinance where the complaintant gets to decide what is offensive and what is not. I know someone who got a noise ticket on their bike, 600cc sportbike, and when he said it isn't as loud as some Harleys were the officer said that might be so but the loud Harleys don't offend him or get on his nerves as much as the 10,000rpm screaming sportbikes do, very subjective application of the law and it usually has nothing to do with what a decible meter reads. Let's say you live in a neighborhood with a local noise ordinance. On one side you have someone who likes country music, on the other side you have someone who like the beat box stuff, and across the street you have someone who likes the opera and classical music. On Mondays the country neighbors crank it up because they sell motorcycles and don't work on Mondays as they work on Saturdays instead. On Tuesdays the beat box neighbor cranks it up because they own a pub/bar and are closed on Tuesdays. On Wednesdays the opera neighbors crank it up because they just like to let loose in the middle of the week. You, in the middle, go biszerk at the sound of opera, get violent at the sound of beat box stuff, and feel like turning into a Jesse James of the wild west days at the sound of country music, so on the weekend you crank up what you like since all three neighbors are elsewhere on the weekends. On Mondays the police get three complaints about loud music, and on Tuesdays the police get three complaints about loud music, and again on Wednesdays the police get complaints about loud music, but they never get any loud music complaints on the weekends because you go out of your way to ensure that nobody is around to complain when you cut loose a little. Rules are rules, and laws are laws, but sometimes it just comes down to how you play the game. (okay, fingers tired, rant over, firing up the laptop and inserting a music CD to take my mind off the crapola and not disturb the cubicle dwelling neighbors). Sorry for the dribble. Complain if you want to, it's a free country (sometimes), but be careful as the rules you place on others today might tomorrow be placed on you. Have a very nice day.  | ||
| Jaimec |
With every car being sold coming equipped with DRLs these days having your headlight on doesn't do as much as it used to... you're just lost in a sea of headlights. A loud exhaust is no help unless the legally deaf have something on their vehicles identifying them as deaf (they don't) so you'll never know if the vehicle you're approaching has a deaf operator or not. And besides, loud exhausts send their sound primarily BACKWARDS so the vehicles in front generally don't hear you until you're already past. Sound, of course, will reflect and reverberate so occasionally when conditions are right the vehicles in front WILL hear you. Unfortunately, under those same circumstances, they also have NO idea from where the sound is coming, and when looking around for the source of the sound they can run into someone else (or even right into you). Best bet is a headlight modulator during the day time. At least until some nitwit decides that all cars should come equipped with them too. A headlight modulator will DEFINITELY make you stand out in traffic and I can guarantee there are no BLIND drivers out there. By the way, Europe has had QUIET aftermarket performance mufflers for a couple of years now. About time we start getting them here too. | ||
| Xl1200r |
You know, I've come home at midnight before to a driveway under 3 feet of snow AND plowed in at the curb. I felt bad doing it, but I fired up the snowblower and only cleared enough space to park my car at the end of the driveway and finished up the rest in the morning. I HAVE to wear earplugs when I snowblow. It takes a good 30 minutes to do my driveway. Not a single complaint. I don't need earplugs for the bike, but it's not that quiet either. If I ever got a complaint because it warmed up for 2 or 3 minutes before I left I think I'll flip. Just for referrence, I had a 1200 Sportster that I entered into a bike show. They made me do a sound test before they'd let me in. I don't know what the limit was, but they stood maybe 30 ft directly behind me and had me rev the engine to 3000 rpm. Even with a Supertrapp 2:1 with an open end cap, I had no issues passing. | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
It is a simple matter of respect and common sense. So now we are stuck having to regulate both. It isn't just the Harley crowd anymore. Their problem is they usually ride in groups and that makes the noise more abrasive. You cannot leave the windows open at nights because of them....Leaving the bar 2:30-3 am, It can be so loud you can't hold a conversation on the front porch. It boils down to respect and common sense. 3 am stop blipping the throttle at the stop light and racing around like an idiot. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I wouldn't mind having a quieter muffler than the modded V&H I use now. I'm over the thrill of fortissimo basso profundo, but I can't go back to the stock muffler because I'm using a race header. I'm pretty sure a heavier, quieter muffler would destroy the race header anyway... so I'm at an impass. |
