| Author |
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Swordsman
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 02:04 pm: | 
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Ryker, didn't notice till now, but we're spitting distance from one another (the illegal alien bit caught my attention). You're in Dalton, I guess, maybe Chatsworth or Calhoun? I'm originally from Chatsworth, working in Calhoun.
Sorry 'bout the tiny threadjack. 
~SM |
Tpoppa
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 02:47 pm: |
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Toyota pays $200 in health care per vehicle. GM pays $1500 in health care per vehicle. Source: Lee Iacocca.
$1300 per vehicle would fund the development or more competitive, more reliable American vehicles. Which would lead to higher demand & more American Jobs
The UAW isn't the whole problem, but it's a big piece. |
Buellshyter
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 03:55 pm: |
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So, your solution is to eliminate health care benefits for GM and throw the cost onto what?..me?...the taxpayer? How about we try to level the playing field for everyone instead of always looking for the lowest common denominator. |
Bartimus
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 04:05 pm: |
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Aren't the buell motors still made in the same plant as the sportster motors?
Do they have seperate non-union employees building these motors?
I know Harley is union, they were just on strike in PA recently. If these motors are being assembled in Harley plants, I would assume they were being built by union employees, I think that qualifies as "union made"... |
Americanmadexb
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 04:28 pm: |
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the only reason i asked this was because, if HD is Union, why isnt Buell? You would think they would tie everyone together since they are really the same company! |
Bomber
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 04:31 pm: |
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different sites, XB -- no need to make a blanket decision, when the workers don't want one
clearly, not ALL of HDI is union |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 06:12 pm: |
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since they are really the same company
Not at all true. Buell Motorcycle Company is a separate company owned by parent company Harley-Davidson Inc. which also owns the separate company Harley-Davidson Motor Company. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 06:21 pm: |
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I will buy Buell as long as it is non-union.
Period.
If Ford, GM, and Chrysler go under, the unions have no one to blame but themselves. |
Kdan
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 06:44 pm: |
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Rex
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 07:52 pm: |
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It is a free country. Buell plant is a great environment. Being in a free country, the union was able to present their position to the employees, and apparently they were able to vote. Very American. As stated, they were not pressured to not vote for the union. Apparently they are very happy as they are. Power to them.
Shame on the union for taking this kind of position.
But...also as stated above the motors are built at the harley plant, and those folks are union. So I would think, come on union, know your own business and who you represent. That kind of old school pressure will not work in today society.
it is kind of funny. I still get my dads union magazine, which is for tire company workers, and unions for harley davidson.
They did a big article and a front page photo of how they were able to get the HD company to come across and take care of their employees, thanks to the union. Guess what the HD worker on the cover of the magazine was wearing?
A BUELL SHIRT! Someone in production of the magazine, didn't catch this one...huh?
Go Buell. Keep the employees happy, and have the Happy employees building our bikes.
REX |
Lost_in_ohio
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 07:54 pm: |
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Life time health insurance.....Yep that will put a company out of business. Just ask the guys at LTV Steel. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 08:08 pm: |
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As I understand it, isn't it the goal of the union to ensure that the workers are getting a fair shake? If yes, why discriminate against a brand (company) that is already treating the workers fairly? Shouldn't they look at Buell as one of the "good guys" that doesn't need any more persuasion to give the workers what they deserve (the fact that it has been voted down says that that's what the employees feel anyway) and support them as such? Or is that not what this ride is really all about (I won't extend that as a sweeping generalization about unions)? I guess I'm just confused. American workers building motorcycles getting a fair shake without needing to unioninze - to me that sounds like Buell is doing it just like we'd all hope. |
Buellinachinashop
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 08:12 pm: |
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"Not at all true. Buell Motorcycle Company is a separate company owned by parent company Harley-Davidson Inc. which also owns the separate company Harley-Davidson Motor Company."
Please don't kid yourself Anon. These bikes are to Harley what Pontiac is to GM. Harley's PDO gives the stamp of approval on design, develops and tests the motors and is the financial provider for Buell. Buell exists because HD allows it. |
Tpoppa
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 08:12 pm: |
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Buellshyter,
See L_I_O post above...UAW members are going to have to bear some of the cost of healthcare, just like other Americans.
Do you hear the non-union workforce in Toy, Hon, & Nis, plant in the USA complaining that they are treated unfairly? |
Wolfridgerider
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 08:15 pm: |
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i want to be a happy employee |
Tpoppa
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 08:19 pm: |
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Anony is right on. The Union party line is that they want to benefit workers. The truth is they are just as motivated to increase membership for more selfish reasons.
Plenty of companies treat their workforce just fine, without any union interference. If unions only purpose was to benefit workers...wouldn't this be a good thing?
(Message edited by tpoppa on April 19, 2007) |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 08:29 pm: |
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Not kidding myself at all.
These bikes are to Harley what Pontiac is to GM
Not at all. Among other reasons, one obvious one is that Pontiac shares platforms with other GM vehicles, no Harley products share the same platform as the Buells. Buell motorcycles are what they are because those designs are conceptialized, developed and materialized by the group at Buell Motorcycle Company. That's not to say it's done in a vacuum as there are many shared resources between the companies (test facilities, met labs, etc), but they are absolutely Buell motorcycles by more than simple branding. As for the engines, yes, they, come from Harley Davidson Motor Company - as a supplier. Buell pays for those engines. |
Lost_in_ohio
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 08:34 pm: |
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My health insurance for a family of 4 cost me $314 a month. That does not include dental or eye glasses. Plus my copays tripled in price, prescription copays have doubled and the list of covered drugs has shrunk.
Ford or GM said that before they sell a car they were in the hole by $2000, or something like that, to just cover the retirees health care.
The Japanese, Koreans and soon the Chinese do not have this added cost on their vehicles.
Yes I know about the EXCESSIVE bonuses paid to executives, but that don't make it right.
Someone earlier said that some of us could not afford a Buell if a Union made it.....I agree hole heartily.....I would have like to had a BMW 1200R but the 15k price tag ended that. |
Xb9ser
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 10:15 pm: |
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I work for a union co. We were nonunion for 7 years.But voted it in 3 years ago.I was non union till it was voted in .best thing that could have happened. If a compney treates is employes fair a union stands no chance.18 years ago I worked for a company that was union and they sold parts with out a union lable cheaper than if it had a union lable. The parts were in the same bin when they sold them they put the sticker on them. Two diffrent names one was union one was non. Same parts diffrent lables.i used to be anti but am now very pro. |
Americanmadexb
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 10:45 pm: |
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dont get me wrong, i love my Union and where i work. I just hate that its SO political! Its a debate about anything and everything all the time.
I have a friend thats a steward for my line and went to Black Lake, MI for a meeting. They made him park his Pt Cruiser 3/4 or so a mile down the road and walk because that brand was made in Canada(i think, or mexico i dont remember)... but still its messed up the way unions treat things the way they do.. Everything union/made in america, has foreign parts on it some way or another.....
Hell i work for Am General and build HUMVVEE's... our suspension setup is based off of toyota's TRD line. I'll leaved it at that! |
Buelltoys
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 11:11 pm: |
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A union is a company in itself and looking out for the company is always the first thing they will do. The workers have to vote it in and then the union starts to make the money. So instead of working for one company you now have to work for two companies!
Just my opinion and you know what opinion's are like!
I like where I work and like that they pay me and the benefits they give. So I see no need for me to pay someone to make it no better then it already is. |
Dick8008
| | Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 11:33 pm: |
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I'm in a union and am very thankful. Yes, the union is getting weaker. But my job and beni's are so much better for them.
How many of you work for $10-$15 an hour? Struggle to make ends meet just to see the upper mgt drive home in their benz or bmw? It levels the playing field a bit. Yes we make more, but in no way am I rich. |
Tpoppa
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 12:07 am: |
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I am a former Marine, drive a Chevy, and ride a Buell. I am very pro-America & anti-Union (mostly).
Some unions operate responsibly and are beneficial, but those are the minority. Wal-Mart is an example where a union could do some good.
The UAW, on the other hand, is doing far more harm than good. UAW contracts & practices (it extends much further than healthcare costs) are making it very difficult for US Auto Makers to be competitive in a global market. Unfortunately, a significant portion of the US economy depends on the Auto Industry. UAW practices have cost many American jobs, which they claim to protect.
The UAW is bad for America & Americans
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/4062/255293.html?1171293971
(Message edited by tpoppa on April 20, 2007) |
Rex
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 12:18 am: |
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My dad worked for bf goodrich all of his life. without the unions, my family would not have what we had....but the unions have swung too far the other direction. instead of just helping the employees, they have swung so far to the other side, that they think they own the company and they make the rules. I worked in the safeway union while inthe stores......I received good wages, good benefits, etc.
But the union reps are only interested in how they look, and what they can get...really not the employees. I have seen it from both sides.....both sides can be wrong. in one meeting, they asked the guys with the motorcycles to go to stores and act like you were going to run down the ladies shopping, create noise and problems, then they asked us to into the stores, and unscrew the caps on bleach, so that when the ladies pulled them off of the shelves he purex would poor out on them, and the also to open up the syrup on the shelves and let it pour all over the shelves and floors. I have never seen management try to do these type of things....
they wanted to down talk the store...all they were doing were driving customers to the other markets in town, never to return, which lost employees jobs..... |
Ryker77
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 09:39 am: |
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The union coal workers in West Virginia have kept the illegal insurgent from overtaking this state. Union rules do not allow an employeer to hire illegals - or to undercut wages. In that case its a win win. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 09:50 am: |
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the mining industry employees still clearly benefit from Union membership (as do others, I'm sure -- I'm just more familiar with mining)
+1 on the Unions's job one is to remain in existance, grow, and prosper -- they wouldn't be able to serve their membership if they didn't
still and all, my opinion is that the gap between job one and caring for membership may have grown a lil large in some cases
in the best of all possible worlds, union's should be working diligently to put themselves out of business -- that is, helping to create a workplace in whcih the workers do not need a thrid party looking out for em
but my opinion is worth less than you paid for it, yes?
;-} |
Buellerandy
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 10:25 am: |
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To jump back to the original topic...why not just get as many Buells/imports together and just follow them on their rides
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