| Author |
Message |
    
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 01:38 pm: | 
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You have a lot to learn....welcome to a very good place to do it.
I hope you live long enough to learn and appreciate the lesson.
HINT: Learning to run faster than a bullet is not a good way to avoid gunshot wounds.
Court |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 01:56 pm: |
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I think the real situation is that cagers don't see us as a threat. Drive a big SUV for a few days then get in a tiny compact car. How often will you get cut off, or will someone jump in front of you, when you drive a big frikkin' car?
A hell of a lot less.
Same concept applies to bikes I believe. It's probably a psychological thing engrained deep in these people's Cro-Magnon minds.
I think the people who know what it's like to be the "target" do the total opposite in their cars. |
Cjmblast
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 02:26 pm: |
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I think RickA is right, when you've been in the motorcycle riders shoes, your careful and considerate of them in your vehicle !!
CJM  |
Nevco1
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 03:34 pm: |
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To support Rick_A's statement, I ride a X1 and drive a Miata. In both instances, I must constantly be on the alert as both are invisible to most Cagers. Especially, those that are preoccupied with cellular phones, shaving, make-up, reading, kids, etc. |
X1glider
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 04:01 pm: |
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Watch out when those digital radios come out next year. They have LCD screens with interactive menus so you can access stuff and send and receive data too, kinda like a palm pilot. Just what the "already-have-their-head-up-their-ass" drivers need in their cars, something else to take their mind off of priority one, safe and responsible driving.
Perhaps the DOT should get their head out of their ass too and put a stop to all this crap going into cars and trucks. Those on board maps like On-Star as well. Personally, I'm so used to listening to a bike exhaust and noisy engine that I forget there's a stereo in my car at all. The last time I turned it on was a month ago when I trailered the Buell to the track and even then it took me 2 hours to realize it was there and not on. |
Joey
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 04:32 pm: |
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Newfie! Eye contact? That means absolutely NOTHING! I connected with some guy in an intersection. Our  LOCKED for several seconds before he almost ran me over. That's all I have to say.  |
Newfie_Buell
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 08:17 pm: |
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Well,
I find it works most of the time. I get a kick out of people when you look at them at intersections, they think your up to something. |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 03:38 pm: |
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I give the "NO YOU DON'T  " look pretty often. |
Dullorb
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 11:37 am: |
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To FssNoc, Miriam Webster's defines accident as an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance. "An act that could not be avoided" is an oxymoron. An "act" is volitional, an intelligence has to be behind it and it must be a choice. There is no such thing as a choice that can not be avoided. Anyone here can chose to stay home instead of going out. It just means that the car will have to come through the picture window to get us. |
Newfie_Buell
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 12:04 pm: |
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According to my Insurance Dictionary:
Accidental Means - The distinction between "accident" and "accidental means" is important ins some accident insurance policies.
Accidental means requires that the cause of the accident is accidental as distinct from the result being accidental.
For example, if a man is painting his house and the ladder, which he thought was in good order, breaks and the man falls causing some injury, the breaking of the ladder was the cause of the accident and it is accordingly, "accidental means." If instead, however, he strained a muscle in reaching to paint, such a strain is definately an "accident" but it is not "by accidental means."
Accident - An unusual unexpected result, attending the performance of a usual, necessary act; an unexpected event which happens by chance or which does not take place according to the usual course of things.
Note that this definition is very simplified as many pages have been written in judgements defining "Accident"
I find these topics can lead to heated discussions which will eventually turn into people arguing liability, negligence and other important factors as well. |
Jdbuellx1
| | Posted on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 02:18 pm: |
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Newfie Buell,
Joey is right, eye contact means nothing, some lady was looking right into my eyes as she pulled right out in front of me and I almost T-boned her. I find that watching their front tire for movement much more effective than eye contact, you have more reaction time looking for the car to move instead of focusing on if the driver see's you. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 06:14 pm: |
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I watch steering wheels too. |
Newfie_Buell
| | Posted on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 09:42 pm: |
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You not only have to be careful on a bike, goes for cars and any other type of vehicle you operate as well. I find that most people that ride bikes are usually more alert when driving in many situations |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 09:52 pm: |
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I watch heads, too. I know if they don't look in my direction last, that they'll probably be tryin' to pull out. You can also tell if they're checkin' the mirrors, too, when you're on a flank. |
Fssnoc2501
| | Posted on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 09:16 am: |
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Tom,
You misunderstand a post that I made several months ago. The statement that I made had nothing to do with legal court related matters. I have no desire to get into that discussion. My definition that I presented is accepted through most TRAUMA registries. Which are maintained through state hospital and EMS organizations.
I maintain exactly what I said earlier, what is described in most "accidents" are not accidents at all but are Crashes. This is because they were avoidable. Cagers can be more considerate, we can watch road conditions, drunks can just not drive. There is possibly some scenerio that can placed on the table that can be considered a true accident, but I have never seen it. I state this through analyzing thousands of crashes, that I have run or been envolved in none where unavoidable.
My statement is mine supported by Trauma systems nation wide, used in the real world today, and when you analyze crashes helps in the attempt to reduce the severity and occurances of these crashes.
Ray |
Kerryx1
| | Posted on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 09:17 am: |
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Expect the worst and sure as hell some cage operator will deliver. Becoming attuned to the changing eliptical shape of front wheels is your first and most important visual clue of a cage driver's inputs. How many times have you seen a cage stopped in a travel lane waiting to make a left turn with their wheels pointing where they want to go? The reason they're waiting is because of oncoming traffic. When they get rear ended, it's going to put them right into what they were waiting for in the first place. Of course, after they've been waiting a few seconds stopped to make their turn, rote memory takes over and it's prudent to turn on the turn signal. The little stalk on the left side of the steering column is for signalling your intentions, not to proudly tell everyone what you just did. It all boils down to initial driver training. Make getting a license a hell of a lot tougher. Federal money spent here would surely save countless future injuries and death. In fact, make a pilot license mandatory before getting a car license. That way the incompetent spinchter muscles that ruin our day every day wouldn't be around to leave a trail of disaster behind them.
'Ole Baldie
And yes, I do hold a pilots license, many endorsements, aerobatics and air show certifications |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Sunday, December 15, 2002 - 03:42 pm: |
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Study in CA back in the 70's checked out the most common car-bike crash, the left turn in front of bike. In ALL cases the car driver "did not see him". The study found that 100% of the drivers did not ride bikes or have a close relative who rode. These people looked right at the motorcycle & really did not "see" them as their minds did not have a reference point for the thing they "saw". Motorcycles do not exist in their universe (until that loud noise & swearing began). |
X1glider
| | Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 02:59 pm: |
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I agree with Kerry. We not only need tougher driving tests but need to take the tests every couple of years. As it stands, I only need to take the eye exam every 5 years or whatever it is to renew the license. We need to take the written and driving exams too. Drivers are so complacent, they forget what the rules are, and the skills. And ettiqutte is non-existent. Perhaps and advanced driving course should be created that stresses rules and ettiquette. The MSF has an advanced skills class, why not one for cages? Even Canada's basic classes are longer and more involved. My ex taught with the Calgary Safety Council for several years. The MSF classes are a joke.
I remember sitting in driver's ed way back when and being on the simulators and can look back and say, "that was pretty cool." I think anyone that has to go to defensive driving, should be required to do simulator time and advanced skills. Perhaps when you ask the judge if you can take defensive driving, there should be an advanced traffic skills and ettiquette class with a simulator. Sitting in a class and barely paying attention to the instructor doesn't do anything except burn up a person's personal time.
We as bikers can only educate ourselves so much and we do. We know what it takes to survive. But no matter how much we know, our lives still lie in the hands of those who don't know WTF they are doing. This is where efforts need to be concentrated. |
Andrewb
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 10:07 am: |
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I found this interesting site, It covered several of my concerns. Usually I travel several hundred miles just to get to good unpopulated roads to play on. The cost seems good for the service provided too.
http://www.medjetassistance.com/
Anyone else have experience with them?? |
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