| Author |
Message |
    
Girlscantwo
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 10:35 am: | 
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My MSC (which was taught by a bedford police bike instructor) Said to hit all fours at once(clutch, front break, rear break and down shift til ya hit 1st).
I plan on taking the advanced class this spring which covers skidding, and locking up both breaks (front, rear and both at same time) water slidding, gravel, hills and more. I can't wait( think I better extra pads and wrap up my bike frist) |
Newfie_buell
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 10:40 am: |
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Or just buy a cheap old dirtbike and go mad.
You can practice all the sliding around you want on one, its much safer and easier on the road bike too.
Please don't kill your engine though. |
Chasespeed
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 10:40 am: |
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Sanchez, actually, what he is talking about is, compression braking, combined with using front and rear brakes...
I do this for the most part, all the time, despite my cracks about there being no back brake on a buell... I learned that a long time ago..
It alows you to stop faster, AND if needed, power is as simle as twist adn let go of the brakes... the clutch is just about always engaged...
The trick is, downshifting, blipping the throttle to make the downshift seamless..WHILE maintaining the steadily increasing pressure on the front brake...
Try it some time....it takes a bit of practice..BUT, untimately worthwhile..
As far as silver haired demons.....ummm Yeah, I will not even start that conversation..only to say, that there is some mid-sized white sedan, flaoting around VaBch right now, with a dented door panel...(happened monday)...oh well...I really dont wanna elaborate..it still irratates the hell outta me
Chase |
Bomber
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 11:38 am: |
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most states have age limits, beyond which a driver has to take a test yearly -- decent enough plan
most LEOs seem loathe to on-the-spot yank a license of anyone that demostrates a lack of skill behind the wheel, and our licensing bureaus (generally the secretary of state's office) also turn drivers of all ages loose on an unsuspecting public
won't change til the voters make it clear that it must change -- the good news is that, unlike the price of oil, this IS legislatable on a rational basis
the bad news is that most voters won't make enough of a stink
the badest news is that most families won't live up to their responsibilities and manage the situation independant of the gubmint
signed, the guy that took away his grandmother's car and license after her third stroke (shoulda seen the fur fly!) |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 12:56 pm: |
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Panic stop on dry clean surface riding a cruiser or touring bike, use the rear brake, fine. But on a sport bike with their short wheelbase, light weight, sticky tires and powerful front brake, you are asking for exactly what happened to Micah or worse. Been there, done that. |
Slowride
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 01:18 pm: |
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Blake,
Your on the money. I posted this same thread on the TLZONE.NET forum and I have had the same feedback... No one was bashing me just elaborating on the need to use up to 99% front brake on these big sportbikes.
I found out today that the TL1000R I have weighs as much as the 00' M2 I was riding.
I posted a thread here a while ago about a similiar incident where the back end got away from me on the M2 in traffic making a forced lane change under hard braking.
Conclusion.... I need more practice jamming that front brake. I also adjusted the rear brake on the TLR where it has to be pushed almost to the max to engage. I hope this forces the practice. |
Aldaytona
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 01:42 pm: |
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Driving in Florida is like being a cast member of "Dawn of the dead" Seems like all the OLD folks come here to die (and take someone with them if they get a chance). In Florida you can renew your license by mail some of these geezers haven't been to DMV since *1963 and since all you need to be licensed in Florida is to be breathing and have $21.00 in cash that's the way it is. Old geezers vote in much higher numbers than regular folks so it isn't going to change.
*a long time anyways..........
Did someone mention Soylent Green, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm |
Light_keeper
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 01:54 pm: |
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The car involved in mine was registered in Fla. In this area we get a lot of summer people who spend the winters down in Florida. A lot of them are from here but maintain the resedence down there because it is easyer to get the renewal. Here you must take an eye exam after a certain age.
 |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 02:37 pm: |
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Micah,
It sure is lucky that you and I were able to learn the lesson while avoiding serious consequences. I still go out at least once a year and practice front brake panic stops on street tires. I'm always impressed at how much stopping power it takes to lift the rear wheel and that the front tire holds so well.
For some reason the street bike practice feels significantly different compared to a similar scenario of hard braking at the track. I guess it is the venue and different riding gear/posture/mindset.
What is really great is that your engaging tale, and refreshingly candid discussion here might hopefully save a few others from the same or easily a much worse fate.
That might make this place worth the trouble, eh?  |
Genesisclimber
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 03:23 pm: |
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ah! the good old days when the elderly in a station wagon is all I really had to worry about. They still take an occasional swipe at me, but they've been far outpaced by "soccer-mom-cellphone/makeup-H2 pilot" and "Tweeker the semi-tractor driver" |
Roadsurfr
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 11:21 am: |
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Just think of street riding as trail riding and the other vehicles are trees that can move. The drivers are just as smart as those trees. It's what makes riding in traffic an exciting experience. Clairvoyance helps alot too. Butch |
Swampy
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 07:47 pm: |
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A very distant relative was a retired postal worker, as he got older his eyesight got BAD! Finaly his wife had his drivers license revolked but the dummy kept driving, a new bright red Dodge 3/4 ton 4X4 cab and a half. He would just drive around the section but he was hitting mailboxes and running cars off the road. When ever I saw him driving for me I would get out of his way, and call the cops. Luckily the dummy died. He was a stupid jerk to boot and was the perfect example of a "Crazy" postal worker! Nothing against my riding postal worker buddies! |
Bartimus
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 08:01 pm: |
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Hmmm, and I thought this thread was about Ferris Bueller.
I can still picture that silver haired demon in my mirrors on that Winnebago of his, LOL  |
Sanchez
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 07:57 am: |
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Sanchez, actually, what he is talking about is, compression braking, combined with using front and rear brakes...
...
The trick is, downshifting, blipping the throttle to make the downshift seamless..WHILE maintaining the steadily increasing pressure on the front brake...
That doesn't seem logical to me. If I can apply enough force to the rear brake to lock up the back tire, what added benefit to I get by adding engine braking on top of that? The tires only have so much friction, and once you exceed the force they can apply to the pavement, there's no point in adding more. Also in a split second panic braking situation, there's no way I'm going to be blipping the throttle and trying to match revs, if for no other reason than my death grip on the front brake lever. I use engine braking all the time in normal driving, but I don't know that it's the right technique in an emergency where the goal is to stop in the shortest distance possible.
I can see what Blake's saying about sport bikes responding differently than cruisers, but doesn't that just mean I need to use the rear brake less? If I abandon it completely, I'm giving up stopping power, and those extra few feet it takes to get the bike slowed down could be the difference between having a wreck and avoiding one. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 09:50 am: |
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Rear brake usage, like bellbottoms, is subject to fashion
while using the rear brake is you are doing a stoppie is clearly useless, and dangerous if you are already using all the available rear wheel traction by leaning over on the rims, I would submit that having both tires on the ground and contributing to slowing the bike is the best scenario --
maximum braking (deceleration) is achieved, in most cases, with both tires on the verge of, but not quite reaching, lockup -- this is the state that ABS systems strive for --
I agree that engine braking is of little value if you're on the verge of rear wheel lockup due to brake usage -- it IS a great idea to keep the engine in the appropriate gear for your road speed, though -- often, it is a good idea to stop braking and to start accelerating PDQ, innit?
ya got two brakes -- use em (safely of course) -- practice, as Blake and others have claimed, is a goodness -- no other way you can tell what the combination of you and your bike is capable of |
Ryker77
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 09:42 am: |
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at what angle in a turn can you still use max rear brakes? I allways brake before a turn. So that little if any braking is required in the turn. But I'd sure like to learn how much the bike/myslef can handle for emergency stops.
not talking racing speeds. just the normal 55-65 through a 35mph posted turn. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 09:46 am: |
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Ryker -- wow, that's a tough one to answer -- depends on the radius of the turn, the motorcycle, the combined weight of the bike/rider, pavement conditions, relative humidity and condition of your karma (smile)
for an emergency stop, for max deceleration, you'd best be upright, or darned near -- braking while heeled over much is only for small changes in turning radius, or small changes to velocity --
Hating to sound like a broken record, practice -- you'll be able to feel the affects, and, if in a safe and repeatable environment (i/e/, parking lot), you'll be able to feel when you're coming up to the edge of available traction
the short answer is -- not a whole lot, especially if you're way over on the rims |
Henrik
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 11:55 am: |
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Ryker; think of it as a $10 bill; your $10 is all the traction you have available. Some of it goes towards "not slipping" as you turn and some of it goes towards braking. If you're cornering at speeds and lean angles that use up $9.95 then any more than a dime worth of braking will send you sliding.
Henrik |
Jackbequick
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 05:02 pm: |
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Henrik - Is that new math? I think you used up your $10 bill about five cents back!
Just joking of course, but that is a great analogy for explaining braking.
Now we just have to figure out how to apportion that dime's worth of braking on the front and rear brakes.
Jack |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 07:44 pm: |
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Sounds very Keith Codeish.....except he was a cheapskate.
He only used 1 dollar worth of traction.
Must be the new tire technology |
Ryker77
| | Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 08:51 am: |
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thanks for the tips on braking and corners. Thats about what I thought. I do practice alot on straigh stopping. Need to find a good safe area to practice the corner stopping.
Saftey is my goal before speed. |
Henrik
| | Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 09:50 am: |
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well, guys, it's kinda like a NY shell game - if you don't notice I end up a nickel richer and about the $10 ... yeah baby, we be high rollers here in the city 
Henrik |
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