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Darthane
| | Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 08:16 am: | 
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LOL...dude, Ray, I was just being facetious. That line's actually from a stand-up act of Jerry Seinfeld's. I never go out without my helmet on, and I refuse to wear anything other than a full-face.
Bryan |
Jb2
| | Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 09:39 am: |
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If you been hangin' around here long you this subject is very personal to me. First I was rear-ended by a cable-tv van and the following year I was t-boned by another rider. In both cases I rode away from serious accidents because I was wearing top notch protective gear.
This spring Dad was killed by an unattentive driver who turned left into his path. He was wearing a full complement of gear. The doctor and coroner both told me he died from two single blunt traumas. One to his forehead (between his eyes) and one massive chest compression. Either one alone would have killed him but both combined meant he had no chance.
It could be debated that the open face helmet he was wearing could have been a full face. But, what about the impact to his chest that collapsed his lungs and exploded his heart? There are very few jackets on the market with chest protectors and of the chest protectors available how many would withstand a 100+ mph impact speed with the windshield post of a Honda Civic?
If there was something good to be said from this terrible event it's he had no broken bones (other than frontal skull fracture), no roadrash and we had an open casket ceremony.
It was here that I heard Court make a statement to the effect that the most important thing you can do to change the outcome of a crash is what you do "before" you get on the bike... your gear.
I love all of my fellow riders and I would gladly defend your right to freedom of choice but you must also defend my freedom to think and say, "If you're riding a bike and not wearing gear you're a fuckin' idiot!"
Ride Safe, JB2 |
Newfie_Buell
| | Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 03:36 pm: |
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I agree with JB2,
A friend of mine is an emergency room doctor and commonly refers to asphalt as the 100ft skin grater. He constantly reminds riders of how important good quality gear is.
I guess riding without gear is like riding on $50.00 tires. |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 05:36 pm: |
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I've said it before.....
Many, in celebrating their FREEDOM to choose, demonstrate their lack of ability to. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 08:46 pm: |
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Jim, no offense meant on my part. My sincere apologies, and also to anyone else who may have been offended by my comments.
With Blake's permission (or not), I'll gladly wipe the whole topic. It serves no real purpose. We all know the score. Non of us are stupid, even though we might not wear protective gear all of the time, so we don't need graphical reminders like that really.
Rocket |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 03:11 am: |
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Rocket... Sean... I was kidding.
This is a good thread. Please, no deleting of topics! |
Jb2
| | Posted on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 07:12 pm: |
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Ditto Blake!!!
Rocket, you did not offend me by any means. I still love you even if you choose not to wear gear. 'Course, I'd still love you if you were playing Russian Roulette but I'd still tell you that you're f'n idiot.
JB2 |
Kevyn
| | Posted on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 11:23 pm: |
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...was it Hunter Thompson who referred to asphalt as the "suasage monster?"...I'm thinking that new Shoei helmet is lookin' better 'n' better. |
Fssnoc2501
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 09:42 am: |
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While the soapbox is open,
I not only feel that personal protective gear is the right tool when riding, the selection of the correct gear is equally important. This means that the minimum safety sticker inside a helmet is Snell 95 or better. This is the lowest requirement for any of the racing organizations that I am familiar with and lets face it the way some of us ride isn't that what we need. The testing requirements to meet Snell Foundation standards is much higher than DOT (which is Crap just my $0.02 worth.
I have many friends that ride without, this does not hold me back from telling them my opinion. When they ask why I feel so strongly, I just tell them that if they are good enough people to consider friends they are good enough for me to want to keep around.
Sean (Rocket) thanks for the help on my Blast at Aaron's, and yes I want to keep you around also. We need a token Limey around to 'rib'  . This is a good topic please keep it around.
Ray |
Jenkat131
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 04:25 pm: |
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Christ... I thought road rash was bad. And I thought the stuff on the Cycle World board was bad. I'm curious: What sort of news site had those pics up? Most newspapers and TV stations have a policy against showing graphic images like that.
ANYWAY, I have said it before and I'll say it again: My Arai saved my bacon, and my crash wasn't bad at all, especially in comparison to that one.
And to think of all the squids around here who think they look so good, riding without lids... someone needs to include those pics with the videos they show in the MSF course. I'm sure there would be objections over graphic content, but they drive the message home a lot better than those dorky videos from the '70s and '80s. |
Newfie_Buell
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 04:50 pm: |
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The problem with showing that kind of graphic images to potential new riders is that you would definately scare away some of the participants who would consider taking the course.
I help out as an instructor/volunteer with the local group and would definately not show some of those students.
The videos from the 80's shown are a bit cheesy but effective.
What we insist on is using the proper gear when riding and absolutely no exceptions when participating in the course.
Just my opinion. |
X1glider
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 07:21 pm: |
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Quote:The problem with showing that kind of graphic images to potential new riders is that you would definately scare away some of the participants who would consider taking the course.
Those who ride motorcycles are willing to accept a certain amount of risk. The smart ones who accept it know that they could possibly be killed, but wear protective gear just in case something non-lethal should occur. They know that protective gear still won't prevent death, just minimize certain injuries. The dumb ones don't wear the gear at all.
Those who would look at those pictures and decide not to take a motorcycle course is ok as well. It isn't meant to keep motorcycling exclusive to those with a strong stomach, big egos or those who have accepted the risk. Those who decide not to ride from those pics may do so for many reasons. Perhaps being scared is one of them. Others may do it for their family. "You know, what will happen to my wife and kids if I get run over?" Perhaps they never thought past the "riding is fun" part. Seeing those pics would bring realization that riding is serious business.
It's something an individual NEEDS to be ready to deal with. There is a lot of responsibilty involved in being a motorcyclist and turning away a few potentials is not a bad thing. It can be considered saving a life. I'd show them in my class if I was allowed, and probably if I wasn't allowed. It's important that people know the truth, not protect them from the harsh reality. Save that for your toddlers. Only then can they make the proper decision for themselves. |
Jenkat131
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 11:06 pm: |
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Well, you obviously wouldn't show them as people walked through the door. If you were going to show them, you show them after the video about proper gear to get the squidly dudes to stop laughing about how a lid is gonna mess up their hair.
In my MSF class, there were two "sport bike" dudes who thought it was funny they both dropped their bikes before they took the class. They bragged about not wearing helmets. I think seeing pics like the ones with the brains on the ground might change their minds. Then again, maybe not.
The thing is, most people don't really think about crashing until it happens to them. X1glider, you're right about it being something people need to think about. Hell, I haven't had a bike for a year, and I'm worried about having the right gear to ride 2-up with my husband. I don't have the right kind of boots, I don't have riding pants. My jacket is OK, but it's been through one crash. My gloves will be OK, after I get the hole in one of the palms fixed.
I'm not saying you need to walk around shell-shocked, thinking "oh my god, I'm gonna die." It's an acknowledged risk, but very few people want to talk about because they think it'll never happen to them. The gal in town who does leather work knows a lot of people who would've had a fighting chance with the right gear; she's lost a lot of close friends because they thought it would "never happen" to them.
And a bit of perspective, before I climb off the soapbox I've suddenly borrowed from Fssnoc2501: If, and this is a big if, I had been wearing riding pants, not jeans and had "real" motorcycle boots, chances are, I walk away from my crash with a few bruises (physically and my ego) and a torqued bike and helmet, no road rash, no sprained ankle. I'll say it again: No lid, gloves, jacket and boots, chances are I'm not sitting here, preaching from the soapbox. 35 mph... think about it. Soapbox is yours again, Fssnoc2501.
Jen |
Fssnoc2501
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 11:39 pm: |
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Jen,
I'm more than glad to share it with anyone. Glad to have you back haven't heard much from you since the crash. Hope you are doing well. Also, if interested in more riding gear check out newenough.com, great prices and all name brand.
Ray |
Mzoomora
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 12:02 am: |
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BEING A FIREMAN AND A MOTORCYCLE RIDER, IVE BEEN ON BOTH SIDES. I WAS RIDING MY KAWASAKI TO WORK ONE MORNING ABOUT TWO MONTHS AGO, WHEN SOME WOMAN PULLED OUT FROM A DRIVEWAY IN FRONT OF A TRUCK AND DIRECTLY INTO MY PATH. END RESULT- A TOTALED BIKE(40 MPH INTO THE PASSENGER SIDE OF A CAR), AND PERSISTENT ACHES AND PAINS. I WAS WEARING JEANS, A T-SHIRT, AND NO HELMET. I WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN. ALSO, BEING ON THE CHICAGO FIRE DEPT, I HAVE SEEN NUMEROUS FATAL MOTORCYCLE AND CAR ACCIDENTS, MANY MORE GRAPHIC THAN THIS. IT TOOK MY OWN EXPERIENCE TO WISEN MYSELF UP, ALONG WITH THE THOUGHT OF LEAVING MY CHILDREN BEHIND. ANYWAY, I HOPE THESE PICTURES CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT HELMETS DO SAVE LIVES. THANKS. |
X1glider
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 12:08 pm: |
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Jen, before getting on the back of the bike again, get the gear. If your hubby insists you ride with him without it, then he obviously doesn't value your life as much as you do. Also, it shows disrespect towards how you feel about the subject, which you have already made clear. Then you should leave him, come to Houston and ride on the back of my bike. I have extra gear for you. 
newenough is one good source.
try this as well: www.discountmotorcycleapparel.com
they also have sections for helmets, tire, parts and other stuff. I've had good experiences with them and the prices are right. Check out the closeout deals. |
X1glider
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 12:16 pm: |
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As to the DOT certification, yes they are much too lienient. There's a reason you don't see SNELL certifying half helmets. There's a new Euro standard out that supposedly puts SNELL to shame, I forgot the name. These will be the ones to look for in the very near future. |
Jenkat131
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 06:31 pm: |
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X1, I didn't mean to make it sound like my hubby was making me ride with him. It's just that since my crash, I haven't gotten any new gear since I ride 2-up so seldom. My husband is a very careful rider, and I trust him totally. He doesn't like to ride 2-up that much because he's so used to riding alone. I like riding with him, it's just that I know I need to get better gear. He knows how I feel about the subject of crashing and wearing the right stuff; I will never forget the worried look on his face when he showed up in the ER that night.
Thanks for the offer, tho. |
X1glider
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 02:00 pm: |
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An oldie, but still viable. Ever notice that there aren't any pics of Buellers like this? Whew! |
Newfie_Buell
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 04:16 pm: |
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That is a case where protective gear would not work. |
X1glider
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 05:02 pm: |
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Yes, but at least the insurance companies and government can't misuse the data gathered from the rider fatality due to not wearing a helmet or protective gear. It's easier to see where the body parts were relocated on the larger pic I have. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 05:08 pm: |
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there was a squid in my home town about 10 years ago . . . .brand new race rep (forget the brand) . . .wearing a cheap helmet, cutoff, dago tee and gym shoes . . ..
he went down at 30 mph in a construction zone with grooved pavement and lot's of pea-gravel like loose stuff on the surface . . .helmet saved his life, for a little bit . . . .
tore a spiral-shped strip skin and tissue of him, and died 3 days later from the massive infection . . . body just shut down . . . .
gear rules |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 05:30 pm: |
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Quote:Ever notice that there aren't any pics of Buellers like this?
That's almost like saying, "Ever notice that there aren't any pics of Bimota V-Dues like this?"
-Saro |
Fssnoc2501
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 06:35 pm: |
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Saro,
I like that about the predominant number of Beullers that I've met. I've started to get get rather fond of the folks that I've met here. Yes, this includes you . Protection is a choice, but a damn good one IMHO.
Ray |
Mikeyp
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 07:37 pm: |
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X1, are you saying that Buellers don't ride recklessly to warrent an accident like the pic above?
I feel that comment makes no sense. It could very well be a moped, a Goldwing, or even a Fat Boy in that pic. Just because there's a rice rocket in the front seat of that car doesn't mean he was riding recklessly.
Why do you think they call them accidents? |
X1glider
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 08:01 pm: |
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Never said anything of the sort. Just making an observation that I've never seen an accident pic with a Buell in it. Maybe we're better riders!![:]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) |
Fssnoc2501
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 08:33 pm: |
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Mikeyp,
That was no accident!! By definition an accident is an act that could not be avoided. Motorvehicle crashes are crashes not accidents, they all can be avoided through protective gear, pulling our heads out, good maintenance, or good handling of our vehicles. By good use of the previous these things can be avoided. That being said I for one tend to take chances and chance fate. Never the less that is a crash not an accident. It could have been AVOIDED.
Ray |
Newfie_Buell
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 08:33 pm: |
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From the accidents I have seen its usually a factor of the bike going too fast and the driver of the car that didn't see the bike. Drivers in cars still don't really see bikes, even when you pull up next to one. I usually try to make eye contact (this works even through a full face helmet) just by moving your head a little so the drivers around me know that I am there.
I help instruct the bike training course and its our policy that unless you have a good pair of sturdy boots covering the ankle, proper jacket, gloves & approved helmet (none of these skid lids) you do not even put a leg over.
Proper Gear works and if a personal choice probably the best one you will ever make. |
Fssnoc2501
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 09:32 pm: |
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Bill,
Interesting that you bring up the point about drivers of cages not seeing motorcyclists. An interesting study was done in California many years ago and published in a cycle mag (can't remember which one, getting old I guess ) The short version is as follows:
A fellow initiated this study by riding different bikes to work everyday. Small, big, medium sized, headlights on and off, dark colors and bright colors. He rode each an equal number of days in both headlight condition and recorded each time that he had an incident. This meant everytime that he had to swerve, brake etc. The results reveiled no statistical difference, until, he got the CHP to lend him one of their bikes. The "incidents" dramaticaly dropped with this particular bike.
This study makes one wonder, are cagers truly out to get us. maybe so. Just food for thought.
Ray |
Oz666
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 01:33 pm: |
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I am helping a friend get his motorcycle license. He already has had some experience riding - several years ago. I told him to keep two things in mind whenever he was riding:
(1) You are invisible
(2) The cars are AIMING for you
He asked about these statements, as they seem contradictory. I told him to “just trust me”.
After the first couple of months of street riding, he told me I was absolutely right. I know it sounds weird, but it’s the best way I have found to describe it.
Personally, I wear one of those “novelty” helmets – the kind that is just a convienient container with a handle so the paramedic can carry your head. I use it as a constant reminder that the protection does not come from the helmet; it comes from what’s UNDER it. It makes me slow down & keeps me ever vigilant (the price of freedom, remember?). I ALWAYS wear jeans, boots & gloves and wear a leather jacket unless the temp is over 90; even then I wear a heavy long-sleeved shirt. I wear glasses (with industrial hardened corrective safety lenses) and as soon as I put one of those $900.00 neckbreakers, I am blind and deaf. Either my glasses or the face shield fogs, or both. How can one ride safely when one can’t see?
If you follow the two simple suggestions above, keep an eye on the road conditions and don’t behave like I did when I was 17, you will probably never find out how your ridiculously overpriced bit of plastic will protect your favorite body part.
 Oz |
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Why we should wear protective gear... (WARNING!!! Very graphic images!) »
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