| Author | Message | ||
     Jprovo |
With H-D buying Armstrong and selling the MT500 to both military and private customers, it has the start for an enduro or Motard bike. The MT500 has some plus points. It is built for military consumption, so it should be plenty rugged for Hooligan work. The Rotax engine has a proven track record. Should Buell make a Super-Motard bike with the MT500 a donor for parts? Would it sell?? I'd probably buy one if it fell in the $5000-$6500 price range. | ||
| Mikej |
enthusiast site armstrong site | ||
| Jprovo |
looks like you have all the info that I have. | ||
| Lake_Bueller |
I'd rather see them make something like the BMW GS1150. When I lived in Colorado, that was the bike to have. Great handling, comfortable, go anywhere bike  My question is...why spend all the R&D in developing the thumper for Blasts? If this engine is so much more reliable, why not purchase the company earlier for the engine alone. | ||
| Mikej |
Which is more than most H-D dealers have it seems. If people think H-D shops are rough when it comes to Buells, just wait until these military dirtbikes hit the sales floor in quantity, if ever. | ||
| Mikej |
Lake, Engine is from Rotax, not Armstrong. Rotax would probably not sell, plus there may be background links with them to Bombadier, and H-D wouldn't mesh well with Bombardier. (I don't know how to spell Bombardier.) | ||
| Bomber |
Rotax engines . . .. . Mennis . . .theyve got no reason to sell . . . . . also mixed up with Bombardier, who harley also doesn't wanna mess with, I"m thinkin | ||
| Bomber |
rats . . .badweb's own Garrison Keilor beat me to it | ||
| Nevco1 |
YES...YES...YES Do both a super motard and a dual purpose bike on same frame first. Do an adventure tourer second. | ||
| Lornce |
Hey lads, HD used Rotax singles in their TT and flat track singles for years. Don't think they'd have an issue with 'em now. Do Super Motard bikes represent much of the market in America? There's a KTM/Indian dealer (odd combo, eh?) in Toronto says sales in KTM Dukes is brisk. Lornce | ||
| Bykergeek |
Not exactly a Supermotard but: How about a real XR750 flat tracker replica, not just a painted and powdercoated XL883. At least a 1200 Thunderstorm motor would have made the current replica attractive option. | ||
| Nevco1 |
Actually, I would give my eye teeth for a street legal version of Evel Kneivel's jump bike. Just keep the lighting subdued and use the Buell 1200 running gear. | ||
| Rick_A |
The MT500 is pretty cool. My dealer has one. It has room for a lot of gear and a compact assault rifle  The price is too steep, though.
Now there's an idea. My dealer also has a Scott Parker XR on display. I have spent much time admiring it. | ||
| Ray_Maines |
I'm having a hard time imagining HD building and selling anything but great big cruiser, retro and standard type bikes. A Super Motard might be badged as a Buell, but never HD. And, yes, it would sell. Probably better than a Buell sport bike. Give the old fat guys something to have serious fun on and they would scoop it up. Serious fun in this case means NOT competing in any way shape or form with Japanese bikes. A successful Super Motard from HD would have to be small enough (i.e. 500cc’s or so) that it wouldn’t threaten the “Real Bike” status of their precious Fat Boys and Low Riders and wouldn’t compete directly with the 600+ cc bikes from Europe. It would have to have a torque tuned engine of perhaps 30 RWHP wrapped in a frame and fitted with body work that indicated it was a serious bike and not one for mere beginners. Looks count for everything at this dealership. Conversely, it would have to be super easy to ride, and cheap and easy to repair because the targeted customer is, how can I say this, ah, new to performance ridding. A tall bike with lots of suspension travel and a rearward weight bias would have the HD guys doing wheelies all over the parking lot and thinking they were Kenny Roberts Sr. (they’ve never heard of KR Jr.). It would be the best thing that ever happened to the Buell nameplate. | ||
| Jima4media |
The Aprilia Pegaso and the BMW F650 are about the same bike as the HD/Armstrong with a Rotax motor. I don't see them selling really well at the current time. I don't think a third bike in the same category from Buell or HD would do any better. Now if you set a Firebolt motor in a SuperMotard configuration, ala Tiger, 1150GS, V-Strom, Multistrada, or CapoNord, I think you might have something that would sell. Jim Armstrong X-2.5 | ||
| Mikej |
And for the record I look nothing like this guy:  Some say I look more like this guy:  | ||
| Benm2 |
How about a tube-framed, dirt-track replica version of the blast? It almost looks like an XR750, except for the single shock in the back in the racing version shown in (I think) motorcyclist magazine. Another bike that would likely appeal to alot of existing Buell customers is a tube-framed version of the XB9S. Sure, it would need a "regular" gas tank, but once the stock Helmholz box (surely to be mounted) is replaced by a suitable race air cleaner, it would be the true spriritual successor to the S1. Ben | ||
| Bomber |
MikeJ . . . I was, of course, refering to the "inner" Mike whose story-telling abilities are legend . . . . . HD doesn't have any problems with Rotax that I know of . . .. . but Rotax has not particular reason to want to become part of HD . . . very differenet market segments served, and I doubt if Rotax would benefit much from the partnership | ||
| Jima4media |
Ben, I brought this idea up with James Banke almost one year ago exactly. It was at the IMS motorcycle show in San Mateo, which is scheduled to happen again next week. We talked about tubed street tracker versions of both the Blast and the Firebolt. He reasoned that there just isn't a big enough market to sell to with those particular designs. The new Vincent Motors company in Carlsbad, California seems to think there is a market for a similar bike, but they are pricing it at $20,000 for their Black Lightning, and it includes a Honda RC51 motor. http://www.vincentmotors.com/main.php I'd rather buy a used RC51 on eBay or at a salvage yard, and buy a Ron Wood or CCM frame and build one myself. http://www.rotax.net/Flattrack.htm Jim X-2.5 | ||
| Bomber |
Ron Wood makes the greatest bikes ever . . . . . what a bike! | ||
| Sarodude |
Ya know, nobody seems to be asking if BMW or Guzzi need to be out building an I4 superbike. -Saro | ||
| Rick_A |
30 hp??? You must be joking sir! | ||
| Ray_Maines |
Nope. How much HP does a Blast! have? How much does a bike have to have to entertain the younger HD guys that I have in mind as the probable buyer for this little Buell SuperMotard. I think a properly styled Blast! would be a hot seller at your local HD store and when the new converts to “Sport” riding came back for bigger, faster bikes they would likey chose a bigger, faster Buell. So that’s my story, and I’m sticking with it. Thirty HP would be OK for a small SuperMotard and it would be one of the best things that ever happened to the Buell badge. | ||
| Rick_A |
Ya, but they need a big 44" supermotard, too! I agree that a Blast with better styling and ergonomics would attract more people...but the aftermarket has that covered. | ||
| Newfie_Buell |
But If the Blast was re-designed a little more to resemble the Super Motard style they may sell even better. Who wants to buy a bike then spend a couple thousand customizing? Hmmmmmmm, starting to sound familiar-I know thats what I did as well as many other Buell/Harley Enthusiasts. Hey factory please listen to the people who support you. | ||
| Java |
Bykergeek; Years ago, Harley did sell an XR750 replica. I don't remember exactly when, but I do remember it had the left-side carbs, and the high exhaust, and I don't think it sold that well. I think it was just called a XR1000. | ||
| Rick_A |
IMO that bike was more Sportster than XR. A true streetgoing XR would be bad ass. | ||
| Jima4media |
This is the bike Buell needs to build...  | ||
| Java |
Jima4media; I'm afraid I'd certainly take a Firebolt over that bike. But, that picture is really nice work! | ||
| Mikej |
 Reminds me of when  (Image from http://www.rotax.net/Photos/looking_back.jpg) | ||
| Bykergeek |
Here is an XR1000  It really is just a hot-rod sportster and it was nearly 20 yrs ago. The Supermoto craze is just starting to catch on. | ||
| Court |
Generally, by this point in this type of discussion, someone pops up with this old picture.....I'll toss it in the ring.  | ||
| Court |
I'm tottaly digging that XB9ST in yellow. Get me a KLR style rack (and make it look properly integrated) on the back and paint the hard points for mounting luggage on the thing. HINT: Screw MAKING the luggage. Put rails on it that will allow me to take my BMW tail bag and luggage and simply hang on the Buell. (I know you can't actually come out and say "BMW", but something like "mounting accomadates common motorcycle luggage" BMW has done all the tooling to make 2nd to none bags, just give me a place to hang them. This is the forum for opinions...right? | ||
| Sarodude |
I don't believe that would be the case. Harley riders in general seem to want to APPEAR to be riding a motorcycle. Yes, there are HUGE exceptions to this, but more often than not I believe that's the case. Check out the INCREDIBLE importance of external appearance. Hey, we own 2 Harleys (02 FXD, 94 XLH). I'm not bad mouthing 'em but merely stating what I believe the vast majority of people who do UNGODLY things that make the bike perform MUCH MUCH worse seem to be after. Saturday we were floggin' the Dyna up Angeles Crest on our way east to see Loli's folks. We met another Dyna rider at Newcomb's who's tires were ridden to the edge of the tread as well. He LIKES his Harley and it's sporting enough for him. Truthfuly, the less aesthetically oriented Harleys probably have all the cornering clearance your average 'sport' rider needs. I can't tell you about the number of squids who get puzzled at the 2-up cruiser hangin' with 'em through the twisties. Let the Harley buyer buy a Harley. The more aggressive Harley riders may eventually find their way to another bike. I'd rather not try to "sell" a Buell to a Harley guy just 'cause it's a "Harley Sport Bike" or some such. Always makes me cringe... -Saro | ||
| Newfie_Buell |
Where can I get one of those? | ||
| Bomber |
Mike . . . they kinda frowned on that, didn't they . . . .. but, where else was a boy sposed to practice, fergoodness sakes? | ||
| Rex |
I think a blast in the new frame, with some updates , like 600 cc, would look good, and run good. I agree that a tube frame replica of the Blast flat tracker would look cool. A larger Buell, say 1300-1500 cc, would fit me better. Sport tourer, or to look like the multistrada or the TDM might work too. I really like how my TDM fits and rides. A really nice upright postion. Handles fairly well too. REX |
