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Mikej
| | Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 04:27 pm: | 
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With the criminal(s) running around DC/Virginia there are rumors running amok of possible Constitutional semi-violations in the U.S.A..
For instance, right now there are circulating rumors of the BATF strongly requesting voluntary surrender of rifles in the DC/Virgina/Maryland area, latest counts are over 5,000 firearms have been "surrendered". The owners are being found via review of 4473 forms at gun shops.
Somehow I doubt a criminal clever enough to hit so many people in this short of a timespan and to evade capture thus far even with the mass callout of police agencies, I doubt he/they would be foolish enough to have purchased their rifle locally, if they are from that area to begin with, nor to have stayed at the residence noted on the form at the time of purchase.
There have been stories in the past of NYC police knocking on doors looking for unregistered firearms, only to find out their records were several years out of date, much to the dismay of the new tennants under suspicion. (Side question: Do you know who lived where you live before you lived there, or what sorts of activities they may have been involved in?)
Anyway, things are getting very messy. This isn't another poll, nor am I specifically asking any questions, just opening up the topic for discussion. I don't think we're going into another Y2K paranoia/frenzy, but there are people pushing the boundaries of fair play in the name of safety and protections. And I just read today where some person was quoted on some major news site that he felt many/most people would give up certain freedoms in exchange for some degree of apparent safety.
Somehow, things don't look so good, nor do they seem to bode well in the immediate future for us all. Let's hope they find the shooter(s) soon and stop the envelope pushing before it goes too far and triggers something far worse for us all. There have also been calls for Martial Law should copycat shootings breakout nationwide, regardless of who is identified as the shooter.
Stay safe. No tin hat here, I'm just an observer of sorts. Take care. Bye. |
Ray_Maines
| | Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 05:02 pm: |
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Oh oh, watch out for Rockets red glare! |
X1glider
| | Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 05:14 pm: |
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I just got back in the country so I'm a litle slow on what's been happening. So, I'll post going on what Mike just posted. I'll dig into the news sites a litlle later.
I wonder how voluntary the surrendering of their firearms was. Definitely sounds unwarranted and unconstitutional. Doing so only proves they're pissing in the wind because they are no closer to solving the case than they were 1 second after the initial shooting.
Once again there are more idiots who don't realize that giving up certain freedoms for some degree of apparent safety is how the ball gets rolling against us. They start by taking away one thing, then another and another... |
Mikej
| | Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 05:44 pm: |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/17/national/17SHOO.html?ex=1035432000&en=9b43b57def7a7c46&ei=5006&partner=ALTAVISTA1
I haven't read the above link, no NYT account, but it was just posted on http://www.drudgereport.com/ .
The other sources I found are not as openly reliable as these, if you like Drudge that is. |
Darthane
| | Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 06:54 pm: |
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LOL...that sniper guy's living my dream, he's just hitting the wrong targets (for the record I hope he gets his brains blown out).
The world would be a better place if I had a 7mm witha really nice scope on it.
(Yes, I'm kidding. Well...maybe...a little...)
Bryan |
Roc
| | Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 08:54 pm: |
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The police are not able to protect people, you are responsible for yourself and those you love.
The guy doing the shooting could be doing as much killing with a knife or a hammer.
The best anyone can hope for here is that he is caught in the act, and killed, by an armed cop or citizen. |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 09:18 pm: |
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Marshall law, huh? If so, I'm gonna have to bring back the rest of my arsenal from NY! |
Pilk
| | Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 10:38 pm: |
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Those that give up freedom for security deserve neither.
Ben Franklin
Pilk |
Pilk
| | Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 10:40 pm: |
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Rick, I cannot believe you would leave it in the commie state of NY. ??????
Pilk |
Vr1203
| | Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 12:11 am: |
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Those that give up freedom for security deserve neither.
Ben Franklin
HERE,HERE! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 01:10 am: |
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First off, I'm by no means making light of the situation in DC, Maryland,
and Virginia. But, If it turns out that the sniper utilized a minivan I want
stringent minivan controls implemented and complete bans on certain assault
models.
In the assault minivan control bill I want:
* All assault minivan gas tanks must be limited to 10 gallons thus limiting
the operating area of a sniper. Any amount more is limited to police duty.
* Mandatory governor must be installed on all minivan accelerators limited
top speed to 35 miles an hour. Higher speeds are considered excessive and no
one in today's civilized society need to go any faster. Higher speeds merely
facilitate the ability to outrun police.
* No "high performance" tread tires on any assault minivan will be available
to the general public. "High performance" tires merely facilitate increased
handling in all weather giving an unfair advantage to criminals en flight
from the police and must be limited to police duty only.
* Tinted windows must be banned because it helps obfuscate the identify of
those inside. No implementation of tinted windows is legal outside of police
duty.
* Automatic Assault Minivans will be strictly prohibited. An automatic
transmissions makes it far too easy for virtually anyone, even children
under 25 years of age to operate an assault minivan. Prohibited outside of
law enforcement duty.
* Close the car show loophole. Unbelievably anyone can go to a cars how and
leave with an assault minivan. No criminal background check is required. An
internet connection and a few dollars and an assault minivan can be
purchased on-line and delivered to your door in an hour. ie
http://www.autotrader.com
* Enact federal licensing and registration of assault minivan dealers. Hard
to believe that in today's day and age, assault minivan dealers are
everywhere. Virtually every town has a dealer who does not have to be
licensed by any state, federal, or local authorities to sell these
instruments of destruction.
* Assault minivans with an exhaust volume of under a yet to be determined
decibel level will be deemed unfit for civilian use and restricted to police
duty.
* Mandatory steering wheel locks. Studies indicate that steering wheel locks
make a stolen assault minivan nearly useless.
* Black and dark green minivans will be restricted to police and military
duty.
Here in the United States we're steeped deeply in a minivan culture of
death. So deep that millions of soccer moms drive assault minivans and don't
even know that they're putting so many at risk. That's why I propose
millions of dollars to be spent on assault minivan education. Primarily
it'll be spent on teaching grade school children to report to an adult if
they find an assault minivan - not to touch it but to tell a teacher,
parent, or police officer.
All tests indicate that assault minivans defeat police body armor. There
were exactly zero deaths caused by minivans before 1980 but after Dodge
introduced them in the 1980s deaths attributed to minivans skyrocketed and
they've been used in countless crimes ever since.
Minivan Control Inc. studies indicate that if you have a minivan at home,
you or a member of your family are nine times more likely to be injured or
killed in it than in another vehicle.
In short, there's no room for assault minivans in a civilized society. |
Andrewb
| | Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 08:12 am: |
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ROTFLMAO,
thanks, needed that...Assault Vans. What to regulate next? |
Rockbiter1
| | Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 08:31 am: |
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Personally, I've always been confused by the ban for bayonets on chinese-made SKS rifles (Gun Ban Laws of 1994). When was the last time you've heard of a drive-by bayoneting? |
Mikej
| | Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 08:48 am: |
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Rock...,
The bayonette-ban only affects the Chinese pig sticker bayonet, not the Russian watermelonslicer bayonet. The ban is/was only when considered in conjunction with a folding stock configuration and might be coupled with an extended cartridge or removable magazine. I think you could have two of the three features and still be legal, or maybe it was only one. Something like if your Russian SKS is stock with the full wooden shoulder stock, the original-style 10-round non-removable magazine, and had the original slicer-n-dice bayonet then you were legal. Unless someone changed the law when I wasn't looking. I think the law also had something to do with importation dates, and indirectly might have been a minor slap in the face of China. But you're right, makes little sense. Gee, just like most gun/firearm legislation/registration.
By the way,
Infringement: breach, violation.
Infringe: transgress, break.
I don't know why so many legislators have a problem understanding that word. |
Rempss
| | Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 02:59 pm: |
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Hopefully as successful as "National Ride To Work Day". Saw this at the SIG site and decided to pass it along.
Buy Some
Make sure to use it up as soon as possible too. I always live on the assumption that ammo has a 7-10 day shelf life before it spoils, no sense taking chances.
To keep in tune with the subject matter see this for an explaination of the gun ban of 1994 - Mumbo Jumbo
The SKS (Russian and all variants) falls under the "import ban", an executive order. Sixty +- types of firearms not specifically mentioned or described in the 1994 law were denied importation into the US. This has changed and some more are showing up as of late, I have not researched what the differences are yet.
Jeff |
Edmanning
| | Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 09:57 pm: |
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I believe Clinton Stopped the importation of all Chinese firearms at one time, 22s etc.
The gun law that killed the hi-cap mags, pistol grip stocks and bayonets seems to have been bypassed by domestic stocks and receivers.
Hey wheres Big Hairy Ralph when you need him; I know he;s savy on this stuff.
Im a Concealed Carry Instructor and Law Enforcement Firearms instructor here in Kentucky and still cant kep up with the federal importation laws.
Hillbilly |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 11:01 pm: |
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Clinton was horrible with his senseless bans. It just made the remainder of the old import psuedo military rifles a hell of a lot more expensive...made a market for some US made copies...and they made me a lot of money selling "banned" high capacity mags.
Worst of all, I was forced to fit muzzle brakes instead of flash hiders, requiring a few of my rifles to become more accurate and having faster recovery to target during rapid fire. What a bastard.
Pilk, I had no choice. My bike was my moving vehicle. All I had room for is my trusty 1911. I was thinking of taking down my shotgun and stuffing it in my backpack, but the barrel would've been poking out.
I like the assault van ban. Let's hope it happens.
All my rifles and shotgun have pistol grip stocks. Anything else is wrong! It's a medical condition  |
Eisanmann
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 12:07 am: |
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Lets stop calling this guy or guys a sniper. He is by definition a murderer...even a terrorist(maybe not the Islamic variety or maybe...)
The murdering SOB might be evasive, but he is NOT a sniper.A sniper is a highly skilled and trained professional.
A sniper would certainly use his skills and experience his training provides.
He would NOT use a .223 varmit rifle.
He would chose the 30 cal. variety(.308 or
maybe 30/06).
He would NOT get so close to his target.
Shit,you could train any retard to hit a
melon at a 100 meters in about an hour!
If he were a sniper,he would take position
at a 1/4 mile,not a 100 yrds.
I for one think the shell casing and tarot card were left intentionally, a sniper would never reveal his position before,during or after the shot.
And if this is not a terrorist act,you can "betyerass" that our in country Islamic friends are watching with great interest!
Something else that scares the shit outta'me,is the fact that the use the same vehicle. If they follow standard al Qaida training, it is a trap!
You know,big car chase,lotta cops get involved,surround van and "BOOM"you know the rest.
Think again about that shell casing, A smart sort a fella would go to the local range,pick-up a few spent casings and after the bullshit "Ballistic fingerprinting" they go and arrest Joetheweekendshooter.
Holly Molly, Did I say all that? |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 12:53 am: |
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snip·er
snip·er - noun
1. A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place.
2. One who shoots at other people from a concealed place.
Excerpted from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition Copyright © 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. |
Eisanmann
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 02:10 am: |
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Have you ever lay in wait, wrapped in a Ghillie suit, snuggled against your issue Mauser SP66 in 7.62x51mm NATO with your eye pressed to a Zeiss Diavari VM/V 3-12x56 hoping to aquire the apricot at under 800meters. NO!!! Maybe you'd better look it up at the Hot Muffin Co. or what ever you call it. I may not know computers or motorcycles that well. But you don't want to go here. |
Pilk
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 11:00 am: |
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Have you ever lay in wait, wrapped in a Ghillie suit, snuggled against your issue Mauser SP66 in 7.62x51mm NATO with your eye pressed to a Zeiss Diavari VM/V 3-12x56 hoping to aquire the apricot at under 800meters.
I'd venture to say that a very small contingent of us ever have.
Thank you for your willingness to do violence, for us to be able to sleep safe in our beds.
I prefer the M24 Leopold combo. But have no actual mission experience.
This murderer we have on our hands in MD is no sniper, I dont care what the dictionary says, It doesnt factor in honor.
Pilk |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 12:01 pm: |
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I had the pleasure of having one of the United States Marine Corps most decorated "snipers" working in the office adjacent to mine at Building 31, MCRD San Diego.
Sgt. Westfall was about 5' tall and his entire chest was concealed with the field of medals attesting to his skill and combat experience.
Inevitably, with every inspection, the reviewing Officer would stop, look, produce a look that was the military equivalent of "yeah, right" and immediately dispatch his Aide de Camp to Batttalion to retrieve Westfall's SRB and the commendations therein.
Each and every medal on that chest was EARNED. Stories rang out of being buried in a shallow grave for 10 days, breathing through a straw, alongside the .308 as he waited for someone who was known to be addressing a future gathering visible from his subterrainian location. At the appointed date and hour, his mission was to dig himself from his shallow grave, fire one PERFECT shot and commence the 2 mile sprint to the waiting helo.
Agree, disagree or whatever, in my personal opinion he was a hero. He, regardless of where you stand on the "issues", carried out orders to advance the cause of freedom, regardless of how difficult.
Anybody who shoots a 12 year old kid entering a school or anyone for that matter, has nothing in common with the man who, in my eyes, came to define "sniper".
Symantically Webster, granted, fails to associate "hero" with keen marksmanship. Personally, I have to because of where I have been.
Court |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 12:08 pm: |
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>>>>There have been stories in the past of NYC police knocking on doors looking for unregistered firearms
That, by the way, is an accurate statement and let me point out that "registered" refers to NEW YORK CITY, not the Federal Registration you complete at the time of purchase.
The gun laws of NYC are in stark contrast to my native Kansas. Here, handguns are required to be taken (HOW is another chapter in this story) to Police HQ regualrly to insure they are unmodified. Owner's, to obtain the city permit, MUST belong to an "approved" shooting range. )Note to Midwesterners: Here..it's not behind the barn or the local gun club for $50/yr, it's 2 hours out on Long Island and like $400) and a host of other strange regs.
I, like many of you, am unconvinced that the same kid who hid the 9mm in his backpack at New Dorp High this week ever had any intention of completing the registration process as soon as he finished studying for the SAT. Preposterous.
The upside in my neighborhood (at least prior to all the recent busts...) is that if you committ a crime here..trust me on this one, the legal system is the least of your problems. |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 01:26 pm: |
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Yikes. I pissed of a sniper.
HEY! What's that little red dot on my che  |
Eisanmann
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 02:09 pm: |
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Thank you Pilk, Court.
Pissed off,naaaah. Don,t worry about the red dot,those guys want you to know that you are about to expire!
Hey Pilk, The Remington M24 in M118 7.62mm match and the Leupold M3 X10 with range finding rectile and built-in compensator, I fired 6 3"groups @ 800meters. Yeah that was peace-time in perfect conditions too. Back in the day it was the old M21.
Gentleman, pray for peace! |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 02:27 pm: |
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I have a Colt H-Bar AR that fires 1/2 MOA at 100yds (haven't had a long outdoor range to shoot at yet) when I'm up to it...it's basically stock with a full float barrel tube...and that's with regular SS109 ammunition.
I also have a lightly modded Rem 700VS that's probably a good shooter too, but I'm still a little spooked with the way that scope flies towards my eye...yet I can shoot a .50BMG all day. Go figure. |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 04:13 pm: |
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I have a pointy stick and a board with a nail in it. And I had a BUNCH of garlic on my spaghetti today for lunch. |
Rockbiter1
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 05:21 pm: |
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I have a Bushmaster H-Bar AR-15 with an AK style compensator...the first time I shot it, without zeroing, using the basic iron sights and standing (ok, i cheated a bit by using the sling), I hit a standard 8" paper plate 5 times out of 5 at 300 yards...now if I can only get some time to practice lol |
Eisanmann
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 05:56 pm: |
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Rick A, I've fired the M82A1 in .50BMG.
Had a hard time with the claimed 1MOA, and at around 38lbs. dry, its like lugging around a fat kid by his belt. Another problem I found was the muzzle brake sent the concussion out and back into your spotters face.(its kinda funny seeing him with a bald face!)But ten rounds at a light skinned APC, this thing is the shit! |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 07:09 pm: |
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Mine is a "Boss" .50 AR conversion from Watson's Weapons. I holed a small steel 22lr spinner target repeatedly from 100yds getting the shots within 1.5". At first I thought I had missed, as the target didn't spin. At closer inspection it was most definitely holed like only a .50 can. I've blown away a ton of more "domesticated" targets, like concrete pillars, brake rotors, railroad ties, leaf springs, watermelons, steel plates, gallon jugs (always a good laugh to see those fly), pop cans, masonry blocks, rocks, bricks, my stock muffler, etc. IMO it's the most fun you can have with a gun. It's nice to have your own, too. Get 'em before they're banned! Rugged optics are a must...it's claimed one scope so far.
Those Barretts are awesome...but beyond my practical needs... |
Pilk
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 10:23 pm: |
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Man I think I'll have to sell my Electra glide and buy a Barrett, you had to go and mention the M82 didn't ya.
Pilk
ps I have a leopold that'd fit nicely, it'll take a 50s recoil. |
Eisanmann
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 11:57 pm: |
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Imagine being attacked by a man on a Buell, pointy stick in one hand,board with a nail in the other and with breath you can see!!!
BE AFRAID...VERY AFRAID |
Ralph
| | Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 12:23 am: |
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I have a big ol'pointy stick and a board with TWO RUSTY nails and had CHILI with 14 kinds of PEPPERS for lunch.
bighairyralph |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 02:28 am: |
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Eisanmann,
I think Ralph has me beat.
BHR,
That would put you in league with the other rogue states developing weapons of mass destruction.  |
Ralph
| | Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 10:36 am: |
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Yeah, the but it ain't the breath ya gotta fear!
bighairyralph |
Stormfool
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 09:16 pm: |
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Last Decenber I bought a Marlin lever action for Cowboy shooting while I was in Virginia--carried it back to Florida strapped to my bike (the one with the "I'm the NRA" sticker)--guess I won't be doing that again anytime soon!
Not so sure about apricots or watermelons but I kin hit a goodsized kumquat at fifty paces... |
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