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Dueller
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 04:44 pm: | 
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Gravediggr
So true about the posers versus "real" bikers....its funny to see the RUB's with their "Live to ride/Ride to live" t-shirts astride their 3 year old 'glide with 783 miles on the odometer...hell I've done 700+ miles in a long day. Yet being a "civil" Hooligan I dread outings on a scenic two lane twisty and come upon 15 or 20 cruisers loafing along at 47 mph...what is the "proper" etiquette...pass em one at a time with a polite wave or just blow by the pack at a C-note plus?
Which brings me to the next subject: Know why RUB's wear leather fringe?
Answer: So they can tell they're moving.
Jim |
Eeeeek
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 05:12 pm: |
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If you're "keeping up with most anything" to 110, then you're riding against some people who don't know how to ride.
Simple facts:
I've seen a race kitted Buell run 11.6 at 112 mph in the 1/4 mile with a hell of a good rider aboard. I've also seen a Buell set up the same way run 13.1 in the same 1/4 mile. I was hard pressed to see ANY of the Rice bikes run slower than the fastest Buell. Most of the CBR's were running high 10's and some of the bikes were running high 9's. The bikes with extended swingarms and such were running in the 8's.
So, by my math, a fast Buell will get up to 110 mph by 1/4 mile. A bone stock 929 did the same thing .8 seconds faster, and a bone stock busa went 1.3 seconds faster. I watched Buells line up and I have seen Buells pull the first 60 feet before, but never anything more.
The bike is what it is. I was laughing so hard when I heard a guy a the Buell dinner at Laguna tell Buellbomb how he kept up with a 'busa until 100. Buellbomb looked at him and said "did he know he was racing?" I've raced Buells on my TLR and while they were going though 1st, 2nd and then 3rd, I was riding out 1st and saying goodbye!
Buell are fun. They have intangible qualities that make them an absolute joy to ride around; however, they aren't going to win you any races with equal riders.
Man, I'm starting to feel like Cecil, here.
Vik |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 05:32 pm: |
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Why does any discussion of how Buells are percieved nearly always end up in an "us" versus "them" bashing contest. Y'all need to unwrap your egos from your motorcycles. I'd say that virtually 99% of fellow bikers I meet are friendly and cordial towards me and my Buell. It might be worth considering that maybe it's not the cruiser crowd and repliracer boys that have the attitude problem here? 
The torque discussion? Of course Aaron is correct; did anyone have any doubt.  The misconception is that dyno results report torque at the rear wheel. They don't. If they did, torque output would be different for every gear and for different final drive sprocket combinations thus providing no meaningful mesure of comparison between different motorcycles. Therefore to compare one motorcycle to another, the torque is calculated and reported for the crankshaft output.
So, just don't say the engine torque is being put to the pavement and you are okay. The overall drive ratio multiplies engine torque as it is transferred through the primary, the tranny, and final drive to the rear wheel. You therefore have a BUNCH more torque at the rear wheel than the dyno results list for the engine. Cool eh?
A lighter bike with more HP and a fairly flat mildly humped torque curve (wide power band) will always beat a lower powered heavier bike. Skill in knowing how to best launch the higher power bike of course may demand more expertise. But check the 1/4 mile times listed by Motorcyclist. All the 600 supersports beat the Buell by over a full second. If you wanted a racebike, you bought the wrong bike. Besides being lighter and more powerful, the UJM 600 repliracers also have aerodynamics (full farings) in their favor.
The good news is that you can fairly easily bump up the performance of your Buell engine so that you can at least keep up with a stock UJM 600 racerbike.
Why are the UJM 600's more powerful than our Buells' performance oriented cruiser engine? Higher compression ratio, more cylinders, and the ability to rev to turbine-like speeds.
Why can they rev so much higher than our Buell enignes? Smaller cyclinders, with highly oversquare bore/stroke geometry (short little stroke), and overhead cams driving 16 tiny (relatively speaking) valves, compared to big cylinders with long strokes and a pushrod valvetrain driving 4 huge (relatively speaking) valves.
Zat make sense? |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 05:45 pm: |
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So, uh, Blake... What's yer point? 
-Saro |
Bonzo
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 05:46 pm: |
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Hey,
As far as I can see, you just get a buzz from a Buell that you don't from anything else, that's why I bought it. I'd gone to buy something else, but the shop had a Buell in, so I went for a test drive. I was still grinning when the bike shop truck arrived with a can of petrol after I ran out of juice on the second test drive. Statistics and absolute performance didn't enter in to it - I just had to have it!!
Bonzo |
Snotrocket
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 06:07 pm: |
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Thanks everyone! I've really learned allot today.
To sum it up, the main reason a CBR600 is faster than my 1200 S3. Is simply because mechanically speaking the engines are completely different. I never realized how much different a DOHC engine really is. Not to mention, someone brought up the whole cooling issue, thats very interesting as well. Thanks again! |
Daves
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 06:34 pm: |
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Now go do a track day! |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 07:27 pm: |
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Quote:save the effort and just enjoy your bike
I love this guy |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 07:33 pm: |
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The people I ride with do know how to pull real nice wheelies...but I think it's more a matter of the "pucker factor" for the shit roads we tend to ride.
The "Muell", as it is unaffectionately called at times, has qualities that make it the best to me for reasons other than outright performance. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 07:48 pm: |
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For snotrocket,
when you take your first long ride into the mountains(100 miles or more) with a big butted babe on board you will fine,
1. the ease she will pull the up grade
2. the effort less way she will take the short curves, she will be worth every penny you have in her.......enjoy |
Darthane
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 09:03 pm: |
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Snotrocket,
Since I forgot to in my first posts, and don't think anyone else has yet -
Welcome to the family. You're in for one helluva ride. 
Bryan |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 09:45 pm: |
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When it comes to racing on the street, it almost always comes down to rider skill. Unless the stop lights in your town are 1/4 mile apart a decent rider in a Buell can handle the average Squid on his R1 or Gixxer. They usually buy the bike based purely on magazine numbers & never learn to properly launch or ride the damn thing.
I was racing a kid about 20 yrs old a few weeks ago with my X1, he was on a Brand new R1 & I absolutely owned his ass from stoplight to stoplight. He couldnt launch for shit & by the time he figured out what the hell he should be doing I was already waiting at the next light.
This topic really pissed of Cecil because he said no way it would happen. Now granted if you take 2 people of equal skill lvls & pair them up on with an R1 & a Buell, the Buell will lose every time. But a lot of people with bikes really arent that great of riders. |
Jrh
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 10:42 pm: |
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CycleWorld magazine #s
0-60mph + quartermile
XB9R 3.6sec 12.21 @ 107.48mph
CBR600 3.2 11.36 @ 120.98mph
CB954 2.8 10.32 @ 138 mph
R1 2.9 10.32 @137.6mph
GSXr1000 2.7 9.95 @ 143.69mph |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 10:59 pm: |
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And the point of that is what? That professional racers can produce good numbers on "factory stock" hehe bikes?
I want to see anyone here produce a 9 sec run on a stock Gixxer or hit 60 mph in 2.9 sec on your R1. Aint gonna happen folks, maybe Rickey Gadsen or Jay Gleason a few yrs back, but I dont know anyone who can produce those numbers. And they also always "correct" their numbers for that sea lvl crap. What difference does it make what a bike will do at sea lvl? I dont live at sea lvl & I dont race next to a sea.
Go to your local drag strip & see if anyone can produce likewise numbers. You will be very dissapointed. |
Jrh
| | Posted on Monday, July 22, 2002 - 11:34 pm: |
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Well i don't know about that,i can still put a superbike near or better than those average magazine boys in the quarter mile,at a real drag strip,ive been doing it since i was 17,weighed 135lbs then,same now.Those particular #s may be corrected to sea level,couldnt find that mentioned in the article though.You + some others here talk about beating these bikes stop light to stop light,you say yourself they werent good riders,+ i agree a buell with a really good rider(which is probably you)will beat one of these bikes in this type race, but the import bike rider would have to be a beginner or not trying. I don't have my R1 anymore,i damn sure wish i did so i could make some money off you Buellers at the drag strip.I'm not a Cecil type but no production buell accelerates worth a bent blank. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 11:21 am: |
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Eeeeek,
Quote:Man, I'm starting to feel like Cecil, here.
Not even close compadré. You are a shining example of objectivity in the realm of Buell enthusiasts. |
Eeeeek
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 11:51 am: |
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Thanks for the reassurance, Blake As a completely off the topic side note, I pick up my race bike today 2001 SV650S with 5 miles on it. A little prep work and it's ready for next seasons circuit!
Vik |
Jrh
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 12:21 pm: |
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Objectivity,us Buellers seem to lack that alot of times.A guy writes in asking why a 600 beats his 1200 in acceleration,he gets some good logical explanations of his type of engine+ bike compared to the others,but then, he gets a couple posts saying a buell can accelerate with these bikes up to a certain speed,pure fantasy,then i get Dyna apparently all exited over the #s i quoted straight from a
magazine,saying i could never reproduce them on a drag strip,going on about sea level,special riders.Its been a long time since i ran a bike at a drag strip but i never had trouble matching the magazine #s when i used to go.We,re only talking drag strip,any decent rider can go to a strip and within 4or 5 weekend trips he,s gonna be running close to the mag.#s,he won't probably cut good reaction times with out a whole lot of track time though,hell its not roadracing,its just not that technical or skillfull to turn a good time at the strip,especially if you're not even racing the guy beside you,you can sit there,let him go down the track,then concentrate on your run.
I guess i was lucky back in 79-80 i never had to deal with any M2-X1 street bikes with their mighty pull,on my lowly 7.5 sec. 180+mph Kaw Z1 Kosman chassised,turboed,hilborn injected,blah,blah,blah ProComp drag bike,these Buellers would have" owned my ass".Oh yah,back then PeeWee sold me turbo parts. |
Jmartz
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 02:54 pm: |
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Jrh:
It is refreshing to have someone on the board who understands and appreciates why we own these bikes. I agree with you that in sheer accceleration the Buell motor simply cannot outpace the competition even those sporting just 600 cc.
I hate not being able to outrun others sometimes and this is the very reason the new offerings from Buell do not interest me. |
Eeeeek
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 03:20 pm: |
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Jmartz:
You just hiton one of the biggest reasons I picked up an SV650 for racing (Henrick and I were just talking about this). A Buell is easy to ride fast in the twisties because it is so forgiving. The massive engine brake and gobs of torque make it easy to go into a corner and not worry about braking too much, then hammer the throttle out of the corner. It takes a little more effort to go through the same twisties on most inline 4's. Once you master conserving corner spped and riding smoothly, you can spank most people on GSZXR954's while you're riding a Ninja 250. Skill is the bigggest factor.
It's fun taking down a better bike when riding a Buell. I've taken down some pretty exotic bikes; at the same time, I had my ass handed to me by a guy on a '69 Bonneville.
Moral of the story: don't worry so much about what bike you're on, just make yourself a better rider.
Vik |
Jmartz
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 08:48 am: |
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Eeeeeek:
It is great to own a bike with a reputation. My friends with Ducatis always tell me you don't need an Ohlins fron end you will never know the difference. The fact is I just want to have one just cause I like to.
Riding is everything and skill attests to it.
I have this friend that no matter what he is on he is always at the head of the pack. Unfortunately for many of us who do not have easy access to the twisties the only "joy" we can occassionally partake of is a good old flog down the on ramp. No skill needed here just a fast bike. |
Shot_Gun
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 09:29 am: |
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Jmartz: \quote{Unfortunately for many of us who do not have easy access to the twisties the only "joy" we can occassionally partake of is a good old flog down the on ramp. No skill needed here just a fast bike. }
Now thats not true. There is cars, semi's, that slimy tar they use to seal the cracks in the ramp, stuff that falls off due to no tie downs, ect. You really have to be able to pick an exact spot when pasing or else. Oh I forgot the ripple stips in the asphault from big truck breaking and that big lip where the asphault meets the concrete. There are other stuff too but who's counting.
SG |
Jmartz
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 09:27 pm: |
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Ok Shot:
Skill aside, when you crack the throttle open and the road is open a Buell will not provide the same thrill as a 135 HP in line 4.
If I'm turning and the speeds are moderate I want to be on my 100 HP S1. |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 08:34 pm: |
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It will if it's alarmingly loud and vibrates intensely at higher rpms
...makes it feel fast...anyway |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 10:10 pm: |
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... and doesn't have a namby pamby fairing/windscreen. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 10:24 pm: |
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Wait a minute. Every Buell I've ridden gets intensely smooth at higher rpms. |
Shot_Gun
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 11:47 am: |
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And if the RPM's get to high it gets intensely quiet. Oh thats way to intense or intents or intence? :-) Where those emoticons go anyway?
SG |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 01:33 pm: |
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BadWeB Emoticon and Clipart Library
Just use the \clipart{filename} formattin tag where "filename" is the case sensitive name of the clipart image you wish to post.
We'll have a more user friendly formatting panel back up with the new version 4 software that will be loaded soon.
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Blake
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 01:50 pm: |
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SG,
Actually, all the Buells I have ridden have had rev limiters. |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 05:19 pm: |
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I got them fancy aluminum stiffner bushings in my isolators, Blake. I get to ride numb all the time. Instead of looking down and going, "wow, I'm going that fast?", it's like, "yep, that's about as fast as she feels." |
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