| Author | Message | ||
     M1combat |
"Street Fighter" Put it back in context Mike... It's ok  . | ||
| Phillyblast |
Oh man I guess I have to chime in here. Define a "Modern Engine" esp. since you state the hp #s are fine. Meets current and future EPA regs without need for catalyst/air pump/assorted other junk? Yep. Great gas mileage? Yep. Reliable engine with warranty defect rates well What's not modern about the old tractor lump?  (Message edited by blake on July 25, 2005) | ||
| Hanses25 |
What your title of this post sounds like to me is that your comment was directed towards Erik Buell and he is on this board a whole lot more then you are, so then it was directed to somebody here. Whats funny is I bet the creators of all your BMW and Jap bikes are never on chat boards about their bikes. Why do you think the current motor is not a modern engine, because it has not had any major changes in its appearance? This motor is the only motor that will not require a catalytic converter all of your water cooled "Modern Engines" will require this. Just think of the old saying if it isn't broke why fix it, if you do not need more power it sounds to me like you just want a more futuristic looking motor. And by the way this is a modern motor that had some major internal changes done to it. The 03 XB motor is not even the same as the 04 sportster motor. Now for everyone that wants more power just give NRHS a call and they will hook your bike up. For the same amount of money you will lose in selling or trading in your bike you could put that money towards a high horse power motor. Just something to think about. (Message edited by hanses25 on July 25, 2005) | ||
| Mikej |
M1,  (ducking and running) | ||
| Tramp |
"Our friend Tramp has a very dizzying intellect!!!" ..NO MORE RHYMES NOW, AND I MEAN IT!" | ||
| Budo |
Well Shoe, it's like this. HD is using Buell to get younger riders into the HD fold. Current HD riders are a rapidly aging and graying group. To do this they have to have a motor in the Buell that is also in the HD lineup, IE the Sporster. The idea being that when you are too old, gray, and fat to ride a Buell you might say, well that same motor is in the Sporty, I'll try that. That is why we will never see a so called modern motor (over head cams for example) in a Buell. Believe me Shoe, we have been beating that dead horse for over eight years and it just ain't gonna happen. And that Shoe, is all there is to that. (Message edited by budo on July 25, 2005) | ||
| Psychobueller |
}"Harley Davidison is a corporation just like Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota. Be loyal to the bike you love, What wrong with some harsh words towards the corp?" "My stupid comment was directed at the corp. not anybody here." Funny how, like Court said, you got a response from a real person, probably Erik Buell himself, in a matter of minutes. H-D may be a corporation, but the driving vision behind Buells have always come from the mind of a real person. And he's anything but stupid. I personally love the raunchy big-twin feel of my M2 and the XBs are even cooler because they are on the leading edge of design, while retaining that torquey, old-school engine. On the street 90rwhp is plenty to have fun, lose your license, or kill yourself, whatever you please. If you want a race replica, there are plenty of options. | ||
| Court |
Guess what...the numbers of HD riders abandoning Soft Tails for Lightnings was never anticipated. The idea was you learn on a BLAST and move to a Sportster....guess what..... Common sense is. Court | ||
| Budo |
quote"Guess what...the numbers of HD riders abandoning Soft Tails for Lightnings was never anticipated." Funny how that works, innit? | ||
| Buellysses |
Ya know, in aviation, much, or most of the engine technology found in brand new aircraft is 30 or 40 years old. It works and it doesn't break. Heck the brand new 05 helicopter I'm flying nowadays has a carburetor, (it's lighter) and an air-cooled horiz. opposed engine. Why? because it works and when properly maintained, it doesn't break. Would you want to be in the air with brand new technology? That's called being a test pilot. No need to mention turbines, they're fairly old tech too. I realize this strains the borders of relevance, but there ya go. If the Uly works and it doesn't break, I'll be happy. | ||
| Mikej |
" (over head valves for example) " You probably mean overhead cams. Overhead valves have been in Harley engines for many decades now. As far as beating dead horses and seeing overhead cams come out of a MoCo facility, well, you just might be wrong about that. But the dust is still floating about the 2006 model rumors so I'll leave that comment at that.  | ||
| Lowlife |
"HD is using Buell to get younger riders into the HD fold" That's an interesting statement. Why did Buell introduce an adventure/touring model then? I think that most "younger riders" are going give the Ulysses nothing more than a "pffft...whatever" when it hits the showrooms. As far as the debate over the XL motor...Some of you guys need to relax. It was just an opinion. No need to hit board with pitchforks an torches, sheesh. The best statement I have ever read regarding the XL motor, came from one of the last Battle2Win mags. The article basically stated that the XL motor was in the HD "left for dead" bin for years until Buell came along and nearly doubled its horsepower, and while they were at it, they added fuel injection. Today they still haven't pushed it as far as it can go IMHO. I'd hate to see the day the XL motor is deleted. | ||
| Ceejay |
Doesn't the V-rod have OHC's? personally I like my T-storm, a bit tempermental at times, vibrates a lot at idle, but hey she's strong and rides long I'm happy. 95-98 RWHP and over 40 MPG damn cool | ||
| Bcordb3 |
Ken Maley made my steel shoe back in the late 60's. It was very cool, rode my Bultaco, my Ossa DMR, Triumph and finally rode the bike of the era, an XR750 with the same shoe. (None of those bikes had brakes, BTW). My point is this, there is nothing or never will be a bike like an XR750 or Buell! (Harley powered). Some of us get it and some of us don't. | ||
| Jon |
I am not going to read the whole thread attached to this tragic opening post, so some of this may be redundant: I am aghast that a letter to Mr. Buell, a public one at that, could contain such a sentiment as one that is the topic of this thread. Personally, I think the thread should be crushed. The topic of the engine is a good one, but the manner in which it is offered needs improvement. If you really think Erik is stupid, then you just don't get it. Not building what you want doesn't make Erik stupid. It makes him the builder of bike that you don't happen to want. So move on in your life and get that next "whatever" that you think you need. If you know anything about Erik you know he builds what he envisions as the best, like it or not. The bikes are the sum of specific design and manufacturing elements. The engine was not a mistake. | ||
| Josh_ |
Anybody want a Peanut? | ||
| Tramp |
crushing this thread, or, better yet, changing the namje to something less insulting to "Mr. Buel" is not a bad idea. Incidentally, 'anonymous' doesn't neccesarily mean it's erik posting. I can think of many good reasons to post anonymously on this board, with premission, of course. bcordb- great post. one of my dad's best friends and riding buddies flattracked ossas when i was mini-tramp. he taught me a LOT back in my single-digit ages. He had a cool shop where my dad would bring me to hang out and watch the work. great guy, and i hear he's still messing around with old pioneeers, etc. he became ahodaka dealer as well as an ossa dealer, and my folks got their ace 100, super rat, and when my dad was gone mom got her combat wombat from him. great guy, sorry for the off-topic, but the mere mention of ossa on the dirt-track brought me back. plus, i don't want to dignify this thread with anything else ON topic... | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Steel, I'm not going to restate what's been said above but I do have a few questions. What are your parameters for a "modern" engine? What is it about the current XB motor you don't like? The stock power output? The sound? Is it the air cooling? The push rods? The cylinder layout? I'm not throwing stones, just wondering. Brad | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
"Street Fighter" Put it back in context Mike... It's ok Why do folks persist in using the term street fighter? When the XB was released Buell used the term Sport fighter & I dont believe they have changed from that term as of yet. | ||
| Midknyte |
as has been said before how can our air cooled twin be lauded while Ducati's air cooled twins are praised? | ||
| Metalstorm |
The Firebolt was termed "Sport fighter" The Lightning was termed "Street fighter" I still have the 03 brochure | ||
| Budo |
'Cause the Duc is a over head cam (FOUR valve motor in some of them) using belt drive for the cams, that's why. 90 degree twin, cancels out vibs on the primary plane. Very nice motor by the way, except for the valve check/possible adjustment period of 6k miles or so. A pushrod valve train is seen as being antiquated (right or wrong) for a motorcycle engine when pretty much everyone else has long ago moved to overhead cams. I guess MotoGuzzi and Ural still use bump sticks, anyone else? (Message edited by budo on July 25, 2005) | ||
| Jeremyh |
i just love how when someone has something bad to say about the American bike the response is "hey just go buy a fuking JAP Bike" as if Japanese bikes are second best..............NOW I understand taking pride in American made, but thats no reason to act as if Japanese bikes are of lesser quality or style. | ||
| M1combat |
"When the XB was released Buell used the term Sport fighter " Hmmm... Must have slipped my mind. Makes a little more sense that way anyway  . | ||
| Budo |
Quote: |i just love how when someone has something bad to say about the American bike the response is "hey just go buy a fuking JAP Bike" as if Japanese bikes are second best..............NOW I understand taking pride in American made, but thats no reason to act as if Japanese bikes are of lesser quality or style.| I don't think that was the intent,at least I hope it was not. I would say that there are some really great bikes being made now, more than ever before. If you don't like what Buell has to offer then look elsewhere. Because myself and others have yakked for many years about what we would like Buell to produce, and after a few years(five or eight) it has dawned on most of us that Buell is going to make what they want and a over head cam motor is not going to be it. So as much as you might like to buy an 'merican made bike (for the most part) with over head cams and liquid cooling, and 100+ hp to the ground,(think Suzuki SV1000 or V-strom) well Buckey, it ain't going to happen, at least not from Buell. | ||
| Steelshoe |
Once again, my comment was directed at a corporation. I believe the Vrod engine would be a fine example of what I'm thinking. I was looking forward to see a derivitive of the 8 valve OHC water cooled vtwin in a buell, I'm disappointed. If that happened I believe there would be larger enthusiastic crowd of growing interest in Buells, I do want to see the Buell division servive as much as all here. | ||
| Bomber |
Shoe -- if you were addressing the Corporation (AKA, HDI), labelling your pthread as such mighta been a good idea -- Budo -- do V-Stroms make 100 rwhp? Seriously, I don't know, and would like to . . . .. | ||
| Anonymous |
Budo, a Ulysses crushes the V-Strom in every performace aspect. So the only reason to pick it would be to go backwards. And, Shoe, the V-Rod motor is a big overweight touring lump from a sportbike perspective. Makes a great cruiser, but it weighs 80 lbs more than a KTM motor for heaven's sake! Why would you want that in a Ulysses??? Yes, you can buy a drag version V-Rod for $30,000 that's almost as fast as a stock Hayabusa in the 1/4 mile. Good enough for cruiser guys, not good for sport guys. | ||
| Budo |
Ok, I'll bite, where is the Suzuki 'crushed'? Suzuki V-Strom Specs MSRP: $8,999.00 Engine: 996cc, four-stroke, liquid cooled, 90 degree V-twin, DOHC, 8-valves, TSC® Bore Stroke: 98.0 x 66.0mm Compression Ratio: 11.3:1 Fuel System: Fuel Injection Lubrication: Wet sump Ignition: Digital/Transistorized Transmission: 6-speed Final Drive: #525 chain Overall Length: 2295mm (90.4 in.) Overall Width: 910mm (35.8 in.) Overall Height: 1395mm (54.9 in.) Seat Height: 840mm (33.1 in.) Ground Clearance: 165mm (6.5 in.) Wheelbase: 1535mm (60.4 in.) Dry Weight: 208kg (458 lbs.); 210 kg (462 lbs.) CA. model Suspension Front: Telescopic, cartridge-type, oil damped, adjustable preload Suspension Rear: Link-type, adjustable spring preload and rebound damping Brakes Front: Dual hydraulic disc Brakes Rear: Single hydraulic disc Tires Front: 110/80R-19 Tires Rear: 150/70R-17 Fuel Tank Capacity: 22 liter (5.8 gal.) Color: Blue, Black HP is not mentoned here and I don't have a number for the V-strom, the SV1000 motor puts about 100 HP to the ground but the V-strom may be detuned. XB12X MSRP Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (1) $11,495 DIMENSIONS Overall Length 85 in Overall Height without mirrors 52.4 in Seat Height Laden (2) 33.1 in Width 35.1 in Ground Clearance 6.75 in Rake Steering Head 23.5º Fork Angle 22º Trail 4.8 in Wheelbase 54.1 in Fuel Capacity 4.4 gal Fuel Capacity, DDFI - Low Fuel Indicator Light 0.83 gal Oil Capacity 2.5 qts Primary Fluid Capacity 1 qts Weight Dry Weight 425 lbs Gross Vehicle Weight Rating 950 lbs Load Carrying Capacity 452 lbs ENGINE Engine Thunderstorm® 1203cc Air/Oil/fan-cooled, four-stroke, 45º V-Twin Displacement 73.4 in³ Bore 3.5 in Stroke 3.812 in Peak Engine Torque (3) 84 ft-lb Peak Engine Torque (3) 6000 RPM Peak Horsepower (3) 103 hp Peak Horsepower (3) 6800 RPM Oil Sump (Wet or Dry) Dry Cooling System Type (Air, Air/Oil or Liquid) Air/Oil Fuel System (Carburated or DDFI) DDFI II Intake Throttle Configuration and Bore Diameter Downdraft 49mm, single-piece design Compression Ratio 10.0:1 Mileage per US EPA Urban Trace, CITY (4) 51 mpg Mileage per US EPA HIGHWAY Fuel Economy Test (4) 64 mpg (Message edited by budo on July 25, 2005) | ||
| Patrickh |
uh, I beg to differ. A V-Strom will put 95HP to the ground bone-stock. It has perfect primary balance. The motor is stone reliable, almost unburstable. And it weighs 530lbs with 5.8 gallons of fuel in the tank. I had my TL1000 producing 125HP with light modifications and I'm willing to bet the V-Strom would be over 105HP easily with some airbox mods. Its also pig ugly and lacks the character found in the oil tank of any Buell. BTW...who posts "Anonymous"ly? |
