| Author |
Message |
    
Doof
| | Posted on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 11:20 pm: | 
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Anon-
Will the EFI tuning software work on the tube'rs?
Also, will it perform calibrations like the TPS & AFV Resets? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 11:29 pm: |
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I don't know, that's about all the info I got from a VERY reliable inside source. |
Doof
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 12:05 am: |
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I was reading about the SE Twinkie EFI tuning software in the HD Motor Accessories book, and it says that "dealer installation is required." WTF does that mean? |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 06:57 am: |
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Probably that the dealer needs to install the system initially. |
Aaron
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 08:38 am: |
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I think this is a major step forward, and it's what it'll take to win me over on EFI, the ability to mess with it. |
Snowdave
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 09:15 am: |
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I agree whole heartedly. I have an FI system sitting in the box, and as soon as I can tune it for real, it is going onto my M2. Not to mention, hacking will be infinitely easier if we decide that we do not like the Buell software. Just run through a variety of changes and record the signal between the computer and ECM and you should be able to back into the protocol. Although, any software is better than none at all. |
Mid_Ohio_Jeff
| | Posted on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 09:57 am: |
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My dealer said that the Screamin' Eagle Program Harley is now selling is only good for one bike! Once you access a bikes ECM, the program and ECM identify themseleves with oneanother and from theat point on, the program will only work with that ECM. So for $500, you can only ever tune ONE bike! Sell the bike and get a new one, might as well send teh program with the bike and buy another copy for $500. You had to figure Harley had something up their sleeve! Last thing they want to do is sell one copy to a guy that runs around and uses it on everyone's bike.... |
Darthane
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 10:45 am: |
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Jeff,
It will identify itself with that particular ECM or with that TYPE of ECM?
Bryan |
Mid_Ohio_Jeff
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 11:56 am: |
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It does a "burn" into that particular ECM's memory and also records info from that ECM into the program, thus it will only ever talk to the first ECM that it is connected too. My dealer found this out when he did some checking into it for use as a tool. He was a little disapointed when he found out it is only good for one bike per program - sorta like the calibartion cartridges. I guess it was too much to expect HD to sell something for $500 that would let somebody run around the country tuning hundreds of bikes. I would expect any future program for the Buell to be set up the same way. So much for being able to tune your buddies bike after you do yours. Grededy HD at it's best! So much for a bunch of guys chipping in the dough to buy one copy and tuning a bunch of bikes! Anybody that wants to diddle with their EFI has to pony up $500 for their own copy.... |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 11:58 am: |
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Rempss-
I guess I'll return your Mentally Disturbed ECM. Doesn't seem like we need to hack anything anymore...
-Saro |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 04:54 pm: |
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Saro,
Isn't the programable module is only for the XB bikes at this point? You may still want to hack the DDFI module for the 1200 old DDFI systems. |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 05:36 pm: |
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It would seem like the thing to do would be to rig the other models to run the XB ECM. I don't know if that's a reasonable course of action or if there are some differences in little things electronic.
ME - I think the thing to do is to make the race ECM programmable by ANYTHING... From the perspective of selling stuff with the apparency of purpose, make the race ECM easily programmable with an inexpensive software / cable / adapter combo. It might be argued that the stock ECM should not be programmable for EPA and warranty reasons plus you get to make some money without the customer feeling like a squeezed sponge.
-Saro |
Rempss
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 09:42 am: |
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Saro,
If you still have the time & desire, my biggest gripe about the current system is how to reset the TPS sensor in the field.
I think finding a way to do this in the field would solve the issues of 90%+ of DDFI users. I DESPISE having to go to dealer to reset this just because tha factory did not make it user friendly for the guy at home.
It would be nice to be able to play with the fuel & timing, but not "neccessary" for most mods.
My bike has been tweaked as far as it can be, except camshafts, without removing the motor from the frame or adding a turbo/supercharger. I have no problems with rideability due to air/fuel or timing. Maybe a little messing around could turn up more power, but still very rideable.
A PCIII or Techlusion product is less than half the cost of the Harley Screaming Eagle product; right now I am running the "zero" map, the Race ECM runs RICH. Sure, the aftermarket boxes can only adjust fuel values, but again what might timing adjustments bring to the table? And is that worth additional $300, apparently for one bike only?
But damn it if I don't still have to go to the dealer to reset that TPS.
Jeff |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 12:38 pm: |
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Jeff,
You know this, but to clarify for those who may not... Once your bike's ECM is properly set, you do NOT want to mess with the TPS calibration. The "TPS reset" as it is called actually has nothing to do with adjustment of the TPS itself. Rather the procedure uploads the reference voltage into the ECM so that it understands the TPS voltage output for the throttle closed position. If that calibration is not correct, an EFI engine will almost always have problems operating in the low to mid/cruising ranges.
Once an ECM is calibrated for your bike's TPS zero position, and as long as you don't mess with the TPS itself, you should be able to remove and later reinstall said ECM with no worries. The TPS zero calibration will remain intact.
I agree though, it would be *nice* if the ECM had a covered/secure/recessed button that we could press to recalibrate it for TPS zero position.
The PCIII or any other EFI augmentation product shouldn't be compared to a full race type module. The new programmable XB module is the ideal solution for a non-EPA compliant (racing-only) bike. ![:]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) ( Doesn't that kind of PC drivel make you ill?)  |
Doof
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 04:36 pm: |
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I talked to a couple dealers regarding the XB DDFI system, and they tell me the only changes made were the addition of a secondary O2 sensor, and revised mapping based on a new "algorithm". I've only seen pictures of the XB ECM, but it looks identical to that on the tube'rs.
How about comparing the connector pin-outs between the two ECMs? |
Rempss
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 05:30 pm: |
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If I could just keep my throttle body and TPS on the bike longer than 2000 miles I would never question it. I wake up at night and wander into the garage to screw with this thing! (smiley)
- "The PCIII or any other EFI augmentation product shouldn't be compared to a full race type module."
I would only compare them to the garbage they are. (smiley, OK?)
The previous statement is MY opinion of the PCIII. If your's differs, great.
Jeff |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 06:11 pm: |
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Bad news. The supposedly "reliable" source quoted by anony is mistaken. There is no commercially available programable ECM in work for the XB9's or any other Buell. The issue had been considered, but with the EPA watching closely and the very real possibility of customers blowing up their engines due to bad homemade ECM mapping (lean fuel and overagressive advance), Buell has shelved the idea. I have to agree with them.
Certified licensed racers can gain access to a racebike-only programable module. But, like other racebike only components, it will not be sold through commercial outlets. And for very good reason.
Next time anony, find another source. |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 06:29 pm: |
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So, does this mean we get to keep plugging at this?
-Saro |
Rempss
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 07:35 pm: |
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Plug man, plug away.
Jeff |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 08:02 pm: |
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Blake,
I was just passing info on that I received from a factory source (not Dealer level). This source was quite confident with this information, and very specific in the time of release and pricing. Also very specific in the features, number of maps currently developed, etc. You have to take into account we are dealing with hearsay - nothing in print. I hope my source is correct, but anyone could be misinformed, my source, or your source that discounts this. Just trying to pass on information, hopefully reliable information. I am sorry if it proves to be inaccurate. We'll all know by October, I guess.
Now, logic has it if Harley sells a Screamin' Eagle EFI Race Tuner for the big twins, why would the XB be any different? |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 09:09 pm: |
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Your source may have been referring to the race-only module. His only incorrect statement then would have been that it was to be available through dealerships. Either that, or things may have changed in a short time. |
Charley
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 07:20 am: |
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Is anyone still working on this very intresting project ? |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 10:21 am: |
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I thought I'd put up a heartbeat post to bring this thing back to light somehow. Anyone still workin' at this? I was sent a rather unhappy ECM I spent some time monkeying with. Need to spend more time on it...
-Saro |
Opto
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 03:21 am: |
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What type of chips are inside the ecm Saro? Have you opened it up? |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 10:21 am: |
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Opto-
Start Here.
-Saro |
Mikep
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 04:02 pm: |
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Has anyone done a Google search for how to hack into an ecm?
mikeyp |
Bluzm2
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 05:04 pm: |
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Another question...
Is it possible to to use a protocol analyizer/probe/sniffer to insert between the "tool" and the bike?
What is the protocol? Would a serial probe set up correctly work?
Is it possible to reverse engineer the bugger enough to make a device to rezero the TPS?
Hmmm.
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Sarodude
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 05:54 pm: |
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It would seem that the TPS Zero function is most important to most Buellers. That would likely be an easy thing to sniff and figure out. However, if you read earlier posts in this rather old thread, you'll see that it's not a very vanilla communication protocol - even at the physical / electrical layer.
It seems that interest may be building once again in this area. 
-Saro |
Snowdave
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 08:50 pm: |
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The easiest way to perform a TPS is to have the Scanalyzer and duplicate the signals coming from it. Many pieces of software have the ability to sniff a line and duplicate the transmission.
Dave |
Opto
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 08:09 pm: |
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Saro, there's 3 threads ecm/tps/scan tool going on the Xboard as well. |
Fullpower
| | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 04:41 pm: |
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yes saro interest is building. the cold lonely guy in alaska hollers: H E L P . deutch connector, few LEDs, couple momentary switches, 5volt regulator, PIC chip, plastic box
maybe $50 in parts, assembled by 11 year old kids in india, sell for U$ 200 or so. realistically not likely to be a money maker, but sure would be damn convenient to be able to check that little box in the owners manual service column where it says reset/ zero tps every ten thousand miles. has to be done to keep warantee ya know.it just really pisses me off to be able to adjust/ lube cables, inspect brakes, change oil, tension primary, etc, and NOT be able to do that one little maintenance item. |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 - 04:19 pm: |
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Blip.
Anytime someone brings up a TPS reset I think of this thread. So should you...
-Saro |
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