| Author | Message | ||
     Jscott |
"To everyone here knocking the (lack of) Buell racing effort:" I haven't read many post knocking Buell's racing effort. However I have read a few that are knocking HD's support for Buell's racing effort. Again with what Court had made us privy to - this is a dead issue. | ||
| Uwgriz |
The number of zeros doesn't matter. It's this simple - if the return you see from any investment is less than the investment itself, you've lost money. Shareholders don't care how much fun you had losing the money, because as was stated above, people don't buy stock to watch racing. | ||
| Grndskpr |
If I wanted a race bike or its street going equivalent, I would not have bought either a Buell or a Harley Really, thats an interesting comment coming from the biggest supporter of a flat track look alike bike on the board, guess flat tracking dosent count R | ||
| Outrider |
Rog...Flat Tracking counts, but nobody makes a sensibly priced production model Street Tracker at the moment. Harley, Triumph or whomever...The first manufacturer that offers a production Street Tracker that looks and acts the part will get my business. Until then, I am satisfied with what I have. In the event Harley or Buell make one, I hope it is with the performance level of an XB12S as it will be a street bike with a little heritage designed in. | ||
| Jscott |
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2005/Mar/05030203u.htm Man am I glad I'm not a Ducati shareholder, nothing pisses me off more than a companies blind love for racing. I bet if they would be "smarter" with their money they could enjoy those record profits HD had every quarter. Of course, thankfully all things need not be logical. (Message edited by jscott on March 11, 2005) | ||
| Bomber |
jscott -- duc's in great shape now, true enough, and their racing effort DID help them achieve the rep they have in the market -- however, list the number of companies (Ducati included) that either came close to disappearing or disappeared altogether from being poor manufacuters of products but great racing companies -- ducati, motoguzzi (one of the most sucessful racing marques of all time), aprillia -- name the (especially) italian motorcycle company and you'll see the same story -- all of these companies have been bailed out by the italian government, many more than once -- me, I'm glad our gubmint doesn't get itself (further) involved in bidness -- the two generally don't mix let's bring it home a little -- you go into work, you're told you're being laid off so the company can go racing -- how do you feel? "but our fans will love it!" won't pay your mortgage anyone that thinks that pro racing isn't the fiscal equivalant of the Normandy Landings or the first moon shot needs to go do some research -- badrapping hd for not dumping cubic dollars on an effort which may, or may not, add to the reason they exist (whcih is create profits) is, I belive, indicative of a lack of understanding of how investments and business work -- let's put it another way -- what benefit would a harley stockholder reap from an investment of $1,000,000 in a buell racing effort? anyone? | ||
| Jscott |
There are two types of people - Beatles people and Elvis people. Me - I'm a Beatles person. I'm glad we have a forum to discuss in a civil manner, and I find some of your opinions interesting. I don't subscribe to them myself, but that what makes us a pretty cool online community. Me I'm looking forward to the remainder of the season and will be rooting on our Buell racers, and If Court is right we'll all be enthusiastic for next years 200. It will probably be a huge waste of shareholder's money  , but thats allright by me. (Message edited by jscott on March 11, 2005) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Huh? If HD didn't help anybody this weekend, I want to know where I go to get the engines, ECM's, trapdoor trannies, front brake 8 pot calipers, etc that are on all the bikes that could have ran. | ||
| Bomber |
Scott -- grin -- I'd LOVE to see Buell become a force in racing -- it'd be fun to have em in the mix, no doubt -- hd is pretty much out of the racing business at present (behind closed doors development don't count), and it's a shame (no, I'm not forgetting their flattrack work -- I love flattrack, but it's pretty cheap compared to MotoGP or any type of roadracing) -- I'd love to see em back. me, I think Elvis is one of the more overrated entertainers in history, so we agree entirely on that (though I'll take the Who over the Beatles) Let's raise a glass to the marketing guys that are successful in convincing the finanace guys into believing that racing sells units! Here's to ya! | ||
| Jscott |
Reep my Cincy friend - come again? Help all those guys this week that didn't race, but could have if they would of had $$$? They "Helped" them so much that I don't see a single one on a final grid for this weekends race. Again - a dead issue, I'm looking forward to the next race. | ||
| Jscott |
"Huh? If HD didn't help anybody this weekend, I want to know where I go to get the engines, ECM's, trapdoor trannies, front brake 8 pot calipers, etc that are on all the bikes that could have ran." I wouldn't try our friends at Eastgate!  | ||
| Outrider |
In response to Bombers question... Without any disrespect for Harley, Buell or anyone involved in this discussion, unless Buell's consistently placed on the podium in the Race Classes that attract the majority of squids, I believe the answer is NONE. | ||
| Xlcr |
Yes, Court, I am taunting, for right now, I am taking on the traditional role of gadfly. The function of a gadfly is to create pain and irritation, for the purpose of awaking those who sleep when action is needed. I just wish I could be a gadfly for the entire Harley board. I think things could move alot faster if they all lost a little sleep. And yes, they weren't ready for the VR program. But who's fault was that? Maybe we need a few of those board members to retire. One might say, (and many have) well, "Harley is a cruiser/touring bike maker, and sport bikes aren't really their thing anyway, so they shouldn't support racing". That argument would have worked three years ago. But in 2002 they came out with the XBs and the V-Rod, and in so doing they announced to they world their intention to get serious about performance. But since then they have acted lost. "Hey, these bikes aren't like Softtails and Sportsters, they don't sell themselves, and more money spent on the turgid prose we call ad copy isn't helping. Whaa-waaa what do we do?" THEY made the decision to compete. They should have informed themselves on just how difficult it would be. It's really, really simple, and doesn't require all the ubfusicating bizspeak. If you're going to do it, do it right, or don't do it at all. | ||
| Bomber |
Xl -- without trying to obfuscate, it IS business! ya think the big 4 don't pull the plug on a race series when iut stops selling bikes? it would be great to be able to separazte rpo-level racing from money -- if you figure out a way to do that, let us all know (no sarcasm at all intended, btw) | ||
| Buelldealer |
"But in 2002 they came out with the XBs and the V-Rod, and in so doing they announced to the world their intention to get serious about performance. But since then they have acted lost." If you think Harley-Davidson has acted lost concerning performance and racing with the V-Rod platform you must not being paying very close attention. | ||
| M1combat |
Internet "gadflys" are called Troll's IMO. I see your point in wishing to poke the right bear, but you aren't. The right bear is buying an XB, donating to the contingency fund, and spreading the word. Do you REALLY think that the HD CEO is reading your posts? I doubt it. The CTO of Buell however, almost certainly is... I would also hazard a guess that he feels pretty close to the same way you do, but understands that goal number one is to stay a-float... ESPECIALLY with a bean counter CEO. I plan on attending the Pikes Peak race and if they'll let me, I'll be a freakin' water boy for whatever team thinks they can use me... I'll run tires... I'll refuel pit bikes... I'll monitor tire warmers... I'll scream GO BUELL at the top of my lungs... I'll trip Miguel and Jake every chance I get... I'LL BE A DAMN UMBRELLA BOY IF I NEED TO!!! What are YOUR plans to help the Buell racing effort? Aside from poking in random directions anyway... Racing may be first for some of us, but it's secondary to Harley and for GOOD reason. They got injured the last time they tried this stuff... I'm just glad they are willing to allow one of their toes to get wet again. HD will survive w/o road racing and... DARE I SAY IT... w/o Buell... WE need to do everything in our power to make it as easy as possible for HD to FOLLOW US. WE need to LEAD... Not stand around poking the flippin' bear hoping that one day he'll take off and lead us to world race track domination... Sooooo.... What are YOU going to do tonight Brain? | ||
| Uwgriz |
Based on the current health of HD, I don't think anyone will be calling for resignations from any board members anytime soon. With the V-Rod HD announced their intention to rule the power cruiser market and with the XB Buell announced their intention to build the best street bike ever made. Honda weighed in on the power cruisers with the VTX1800, but they don't drag race agaisnt the V-Rod. Are they wrong for not? Or perhaps they just don't forsee selling enough bikes as a result of it to warrant the investment. Same goes for Ford backing out of Formula 1, or not being involved in IRL at all. Pontiac pulled out of NASCAR even though it fell under the GM umbrella and could have ridden the coattails of the Chevy funded effort but it could not survive on its own so it was axed. (Message edited by uwgriz on March 11, 2005) | ||
| Madduck |
Not to add fuel to this fire, but has anyone noticed the cubic dollars that Harley has been pouring into the Drag-Racing program. Anyone that thinks Drag Racing is cheaper than superbike or FX can put their money up. In less than three years the"v-rod" has accomplished something like a miracle. Just cause Harley doesn't sponsor every kind of racing don't mean they don't go Racing. Sells a lot of v'rods too I guess. Check out the v'rod forums, some of those people are really into high performance and are starting cottage industries to make up the pieces that harley doesn't. As soon as it warms up, I am going to compare the ride on Court's favorite CityX and the new v-rod R model. Court hasn't steered me wrong much over the years. I mess up a lot  | ||
| M1combat |
Keep in mind though, that Ford has re-committed to American forms of closed wheel racing... | ||
| Uwgriz |
Because their marketing group was able to justify the cost due to the huge exposure of NASCAR. That's my point, they do it when it makes financial sense, and they don't when it doesn't. All those running the shows at both HD and Buell have made huge strides with those companies in 20 some odd short years (from the AMF/no such thing years to the HD/Buell of today), partially due to the fact that when it comes to making decisions like the one above, they've made the right one more often than not. And sometimes that decision is not one that any of us here can see. | ||
| M1combat |
Sorry for the confusion... I don't think in terms of NASCAR. NASCAR doesn't really even enter my mind when I think of racing... Just road racing  . I was speaking of ALMS, DP, Grand-Am... There aren't any "factory backed" teams, but there are teams that get factory support... Just like Buells in FX. | ||
| Uwgriz |
First, I agree on the NASCAR thing (personally I much prefer WRC over just about all racing). I lost interest in NASCAR as everyone else was gaining interest (probably for the same reasons). Anyway, the road racing series don't get the same exposure as NASCAR and hence no factory teams. They'll back those teams that choose to run Fords, but for at considerably less cost. | ||
| M2me |
I think a lot of us are just expressing our frustration. Remember awhile back all the hullabaloo about how AMA changed the rules and shut Buell out of AMA competition? Well now Buells are allowed in the FX class and it's the Daytona 200! We all read the Cycle World article and got all excited. It's like wishing for a Red Ryder BB gun all Christmas season and finding out on Christmas morning that you didn't get one. It's frustrating!!!  | ||
| Xlcr |
Here's what frustrates, and infuriates me. I posted regarding this at CycleForums, possibly the most popular board out there, or close, on their pro racing section. Here are the first three replies. FROM cesj: Buells!  From sinister998: Podium?  FROM Texmex 1: They spent all winter developing an improved bike?  This is what the normal Japanese race replica rider thinks of Buells. Does it •••• you off? If so, good, because it certainly pisses ME off. This is what I see everyday, and if any of those Harley execs think Buell is doing just fine, they need to get out there and see this stuff for themselves. Do you suppose some more Buell ads are going to change these guys minds? Or maybe some nice corporate double talk will show them what they are missing. Only one thing will shut these guys up. Victory. | ||
| Xlcr |
Oh BD, BTW, the "V-Rod" drag racer has nothing at all to do with Harley or Harley engineering except the company provided plenty of money. It was completely designed and built by Vance and Hines and has nothing whatsoever in common with a real V-Rod or any other Harley. I'd also like to mention that some say the Japanese don't make a profit on their sport bikes at all after the racing is paid for. They do it just to promote the company name.I'm not suggesting that's what Harley/Buell should do, but that's what they are up against. | ||
| Djkaplan |
"I am taking on the traditional role of gadfly. The function of a gadfly is to create pain and irritation, for the purpose of awaking those who sleep when action is needed. I just wish I could be a gadfly for the entire Harley board. I think things could move alot faster if they all lost a little sleep." Okay, gadfly..., but this is not a Harley board. | ||
| M2me |
I don't base my bike purchasing decisions on "what the normal Japanese race replica rider thinks". I base my decision on what I THINK! I'm the one who has to pay for it and ride it. I just wanted to see Buells compete in the Daytona 200 because I thought it would be fun to cheer for Buell. If other people want to cheer for Honda or Yamaha riders or whatever I say more power to them. I don't care. | ||
| Tank_bueller |
I bought a BUELL........nuff said. | ||
| Reepicheep |
JScott... Eastgate ticked me off allright, but that was a long time ago, and they did sponsor a pretty good battletrax, which I respect and appreciate, so I'll talk nice. And even in the midst of ticking me off, the work they did on the bike *was* well done, and the owner of the store rides a beautiful (even after the highside) S1 like a madman, which is also cool. | ||
| Xlcr |
Who just said Buell is now 100% Harley owned? Sorry, it may be the red-headed stepchild of the family, but to me, Buells are totally Harleys, regardless of what it says on the tank. I would like to see them get the same respect as other models. But they won't. Softtails and Road Kings will remain the darlings of the Harley line, for the simple reason they make the most money. |
