| Author | Message | ||
     Toomanytoys |
Well, I finally bought a Buell this fall. I have been reading this site for months, and registered yesterday. Thanks to plenty of advice read on the board have decided to add the forcewinder intake, and am looking for a suggestion as to where to find the best price. I see cyclespot.com has them for $287. if anyone has one they are looking to sell to fit a 99 X1, or knows where i can pick one up cheaper, a little help would be appreciated. Thank you in advance. | ||
| Henrik  |
Make sure to do a search for Aaron's review of the float bowl vent issue with the newer Forcewinders. Make sure to complete the recommended modifications to avoid all sorts of driveability trouble. Henrik | ||
| Buelliedan  |
Actually the float bowl issue does not exist in a fuel injected bike as there is no float. Do not use the breather system that routes it into the filter. It leaks everywhere and drips onto your leg while riding! (Message edited by buelliedan on February 10, 2005) | ||
| Oldog |
Hey Tomanytoys there is an out fit on E-bay called American Classic Motors I got mine for about $200 heres the scoop there are 2 versions #1 is for carbureted bikes it comes with the "majic elbow" aluminum breather elbows hose fittings & screws and the "small K & N" you will have to get new socket head screws to attach the elbow to the throttle body the stock screws are metric 1/4" x 20 tap can fix this as well.(I re tapped my throttle body to 1/4 x 20 no drilling required.) the stock steel support bracket will work the aluminum head breathers will not work too well the shanks are too long these are 1/2"x13 you will need jam nuts and lots of lock tite and some more 3/8" hose (BE CAREFUL! I twisted one off in the head and got LUCKY getting it out) If you run in to any probles the folks at force respond to e-mails JL sent me the jam nuts #2 is the Xr2 the filter is bigger and has 2 holes in it 1 is for the spooge dump (head breather line) 2 is for the I.A.T. there is a shiny cover for the back end of the IAT sensor & connector, the Xr2 includes a hard line breather that should be run else where, not the filter. They sell a 40.00$ draw string bag called a "Scum Bag" ( MY X calls me that ) I used a set of Banjo Bolts Before you purchase check American Sport Bike Strait up use #1, and save the diff Use the stock bracket, unless you want billet, I slid the IAT under the "Dry charger" for now, and look into the altered head breather setup else where on the board for a few bucks more than the difference between #1 & #2 forcewinder setups you can use the XB hardware to vent the crank case, you then don't have to use banjo bolts and the holes in the head will accept regular 1/2x13 bolts to hold the "TB" bracket Also there is a guy on Ebay who sells a billet spooge can setup and bracket for around 90$ the top only can be had for around 40 I saw a question on this today this site is almost as good as ..............  | ||
| Oldog |
I will post pix for my set up soon | ||
| Oldog |
heres a snap of the install I used the braided covered hose (I like the braided stuff) not needed though the filter is under the tail section just short of the brake disk, Incase of spooge release   | ||
| Toomanytoys |
Thanks for the input. I'll be sure to let you know what i decide to do. Oldog, i sent you a PM for some more pictures. has anyone else made the same conversion  | ||
| Djkaplan  |
I did something similar to Oldog, but I used a combination of the stock rubber hoses, the stock breather fittings, and some stuff I had laying around. My hoses go down after they leave the heads and lead to a catch can hidden behind the seat base on my M2. I can send you a pic of the hose arrangement if you like. | ||
| Toomanytoys |
that would be great. i sent you a PM with my email address, otherwise you can just post it on here. did people who have installed these systems notice a considerable difference in power, and does this affect your range on a tank of fuel? | ||
| J_ciclone_y  |
I picked up a used Forcewinder off ebay for like . . . well, actually can't remember right now. Anyway, totally new to these bikes too. I'm aware of the float bowl vent issue and the necessary die grinding. My question is whether I'll have to rejet. My bike ('99 M2) was modified with a V&H pipe and K&N filter in the stock box (hate that bulky thing). I bought it from a sister of the owner so don't know nothing about what he did to it, but it does have a "Dynojet" sticker on the filter holder so I reckon it was rejetted (faulty logic?). Think I can get by installing my forcewinder without rejetting again? Probably a question for a shop, but I read a lot of knowledgeable posts so I thought I'd ask. [Got the intake for $150; figured not a bad deal with all the fittings and hoses and stuff . . . but I suppose not the best of deals. Still can't believe parts cost that much for these bikes; I put an aftermarket intake on my truck for less than this!!!] (Message edited by j_ciclone_y on February 16, 2005) | ||
| Reepicheep  |
After a cold start, how long do you run your enricher on normal temperature morning before the idle goes way up? With the factory low speed jet, even on a 70 degree day it would need at least two minutes enricher. After the low speed jetting change, it barely needed any choke at all if it was warm, and would idle way up in like 30 seconds or less. (warning: all from memory, somebody correct me if I am nuts). (Message edited by reepicheep on February 16, 2005) | ||
| Djkaplan |
It's not that hard to take the carb off and check what jets you have. M2's needed to be rejetted even when left stock to run good. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Here is how I set up my breather hoses coming out of the heads.  I used pieces of the stock hoses that were plumbed to the bread box and the stock breather fittings. This is 2nd iteration of my hose arrangement. I had them going up and over the engine the first time. I never had a problem with spooge blocking the tubes with the original set-up, I just figured it made more sense to have the tubes running downhill all the way to the catch can. The catch can itself is a huge fuel filter that I glued a small K&N filter (came with Forcewinder) onto. I drilled the bottom of the filter and installed drain on it. It works great and looks factory. I have a total of $5 and a 6-pack of beer invested in my catch can and hoses. | ||
| J_ciclone_y |
Wow, you guys are quick. I've only had the bike since mid-Jan and the weather hasn't been so hot (read: above 50) so I've only started and ridden her a couple times. Still, she does seem to come up to idle fairly quickly . . . not quite the 2000rpm the manual indicates, though. I've got a factory service manual in the mail so once I get that, I'll pull the low speed jet. What # should I hope to see? | ||
| J_ciclone_y |
Looks "soleed" Djakaplan.  Going with gravity is always a good idea. Thanks for the pic; I reckon I'll rig mine up similarly. Curious 'bout the fuel filter deal, though. Wanna give us a glimpse of that? Grazie! | ||
| Djkaplan |
45 is generally what everyone jets up to. Check your idle/air screw too. A sure sign that the carb's been adjusted is if the lead plug sealing it has been removed. Make sure all the recalls and updates are done to your 99, especially the heavier primary tensioner shoe. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I got a pic of my catch can somewhere. I'll post one soon. In the meantime, check the Breather section in the Knowledge Vault for ideas. You'll see some pretty clever solutions there. My favorite whacky but effective catch can is one a guy made out of a tomato can. | ||
| J_ciclone_y |
Got paperwork that the shock has been replaced but didn't know about the heavier primary tensioner shoe. Better do a search of the Vault on that I reckon. Thanks!!! | ||
| Oldog |
Dj I would like to see a photo of the spooge can too. I ran mine up hill to keep the stuff out of the filter (If possible) If Quinn and the others don't want to keep the bread box pieces yours is the smart setup Me I will hold on to the X1 and pieces as long as possible keeping any thing I take off. With all of the interest in using Buell power plants & parts for choppers they might be valuable in a few years Quinn here are the numbers These are the stock numbers for my 2001 X1 box stock This test was run on a dyno jet 150 chassis dyno at Carolina Coast HD Correction Factor 0.98 Corrected Rear Wheel HP & Torque Engine Rpm, Ft Lbs, H.P. 2500, 64.1, 30.5 3000, 61.7, 35.3 3500, 57.4, 38.2 4000, 57.4, 43.9 4500, 60.5, 51.8 5000, 65.6, 62.5 5500, 70.4, 73.7 6000, 70.2, 80.2 6500, 66.4, 82.1 viewed on the PC screen not on printout Peak HP 82.4 @ 6750 rpm With the Force Winder & Super Trapp., latest rev of the stock Buell EFI unit Corrected Rear Wheel HP & Torque (factor .96) Engine Rpm, Ft Lbs, H.P.,Dif TQ,Dif HP 2500, 58.4, 27.8, -5.7 -2.7 3000, 66.4, 37.9, 4.7, 2.6 3500, 69.5, 46.3, 12.1, 8.1 4000, 66.3, 50.5, 8.9, 6.6 4500, 68.2, 58.5, 7.7, 6.7 5000, 71.0, 67.6, 5.4, 5.1 5500, 72.4, 75.8, 2 , 2.1 6000, 68.8, 78.6, -1.4, -1.6 6500, 67.5, 83.5, 1.1, 1.4 the HP & TQ are vs My stock data peak Hp gain 3hp up to 85.7Hp at 6750 (not expected) PC3 was not installed Nice gains 3000 to 5500 rpm with the "stock ECM" latest rev # is series "K" as Keith @ CCHD tells me. I think that there may yet be issues, I have the PC3 unit installed I'm going to zero it out and get a run then load the factory map for the pipe force winder setup, the new box mysteriously rev limits at ~6200 with the pc3 on it (loose wires?) All I might be looking for a used 2001 x1 race box Just think this all started for me because I got tired of the Pinging leaving a light!  regardless of what you do good luck! | ||
| Djkaplan |
Interesting powerband comparison. It concurs with the seat-of-the-pants dyno runs I made on my 2k M2 after a rejet, Forcewinder, and V&H. It always felt like it had a noticeable increase in the midrange with about the same top end, but I wasn't sure if it was just the basso profundo exhaust note fooling me. | ||
| Toomanytoys |
Thank you much oldog and others. You all have been extremely helpful. i am for sure going to get the forcewinder. I have been watching ebay, and have been watching the badweb classifieds here, but I will have one before summer gets here. waiting for consistent 50's so i can actually commute to work again. | ||
| Toomanytoys |
oh, and as far as the stock breadbox, i can't wait to pull those pieces off. it appears to shed weight just by pulling them off (i'm aware they have very little effect). guess i will also need to order some tank accents while i am at it.  | ||
| Oldog  |
Toys: You are more than welcome, the tank accents are available at asb I looked on E-Bay, I think the bogus carbon may be gone ?? Up to you, as Bomber pointed out on the CF thread you gets what you pays fer. Either way best of luck you will like it | ||
| Socoken |
anyone else out there toy with the idea of taking some mandrel bent tubing, and cutting it and welding it to an adapter plate, or a lathe remake of the plate that is on the carb? if a guy had access to a lathe, some stock, and a welder, and had an exhaust shop bend some tubing, and bought a 40$ K&N, a cheap forcewinder look-a-like could be made. or maybe take two smaller tubes each with its own forward facing air filter, and blending them together in a fashion that might cause incoming air to swirl, then welding the larger plenum to the plate? i only ask because i have access to a lot of that stuff, and am sorta curious. even if it wasnt cheaper, wouldnt a hand made intake be cooler? 200-300$ for an intake is excessive, especially when compared to a K&N in a gutted heimholtz, for one that doesnt bring much to the table. Ken | ||
| Oldog |
Ken I don't know if you can bend the tubing to the tight radius | ||
| Djkaplan |
I know a guy who made his out of PVC tubing and hose clamps. You can see part of it here... http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/98612.html?1109085117 | ||
| Oldog |
dj: are you referring to the red booted item sticking out of the cafe sporty? carb thats pvc pipe? hats off to the fabricator  | ||
| Captainkirk |
Ken, I thought about it, then I thought about this... Air does funny things, esp. when going around corners. Without a flow bench and a dyno, you're just taking a "stab" at building performance (unless you're doing it for the looks).The Buell CF cleaner is DYNO PROVEN to build ponies. I'm sure a lot of testing went into the Forcewinder as well. Read some of Smokey Yunick's stuff and you'll see what I mean. On the other hand...if you enjoy testing and have access to a dyno, you might come up with a better mousetrap! | ||
| Djkaplan |
I agree. I'm not sure if swirling air is what you want entering a carb throat. It seems like most tuners go to great lengths to make the flow laminar with venturi rings and velocity stacks. Smokey Yunick was quite an interesting character. I would have loved to have met him, but I sure wouldn't have trusted him if we were competing at something. | ||
| Captainkirk |
I don't think it's a matter of trust-you and I woulda been pi$$ed at him because he would always be mopping the floor with us despite the total lack of sophisticated equipment and research dollars. He was a natural. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Smokey Yunick was a legendary cheater as well as a great tuner. He was also a noted snake oil salesman - you won't find anyone from the engineering departments at GM that will have anything nice to say about him. I still found the guy interesting to read about, but pissed or not, I sure as hell wouldn't have trusted him. | ||
| Aesquire |
I loved the time Smokey Yunick put a model airplane prop on the alternator, mounted it in front of the radiator, saved a bunch of HP, & the battery would get recharged ok at 190 mph. The rules guys banned it on the spot. Swirling air is fine in the combustion chamber, if it is designed for it. Screws up proper metering in a carb big time. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I heard that the reason NASCAR has a rule governing the length and diameter of fuel line was because they found 30ft of 3/4" fuel line in one of Smokey's cars. | ||
| Oldog |
I have only read about some of his indy car builds. (as a teenager) I always thought that part of racing was ingenuity, The fuel line and the prop deals sound like thinking out of the box.  | ||
| Djkaplan |
He was thinking way out of the box. Stock car rules back in the early days said that the car you raced actually had to look like the car the factory sold. Smokey went to the trouble to build a car that was 7/8ths the scale of the fullsized car. It looked exactly like a factory car, but was 1/8th smaller, and subsequently more aerodynamic. |
