| Author | Message | ||
     Oopezoo |
The shopping list just gets longer and longer  So I'm finally getting around to tearing into this '98 S1 I picked up last fall. I popped the rocker boxes off yesterday, and then pulled the cam cover and primary covers this morning. I'm glad I did, but the more I read, the more I wonder if I'm every going to get it back on the road. First up was the oil pump drive gear. Yup its on its way out. The good side  The bad side....probably about 80% worn at its worst spot  The bike has about 15k miles on it, and I didn't know the history. So I'm glad I went in to check it out. Everything else under the cam cover looked to be in great shape. Then I pulled the Primary cover. It still had an original old style tensioner in it, so I'm glad I checked that out as well. I already have the new part on hand as I figured it had never been addressed. So now its sitting there with both covers off, and I'm about to order the new oil pump drive gear and all the gaskets I need to put it back together. Which leads to the subject title...... After reading some more, I'm thinking I should go after the grenade plate too. I have the service manual and a few emails from LaFayette covering the procedure, but I'm wondering if anyone has a parts list handy for what I need to order? I'm planning to place an order with American Sport Bike, but considering it takes a week+ to get parts from the West coast, I was wondering if I could potentially pick up most of what was needed at the local HD shop to get me started? I also plan to swap XB rocker box covers onto it upon reassembly. I have them, but still need to find some used PCV valves. Damn things are way too expensive from the dealer now. So, is there anything else I should eyeball/address while I have the covers and rocker boxes off.......seals, bearings, gaskets? I'd really like to do what I can to get a full season of riding on it without having to go back in for anything I could easily do now. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. | ||
| Mcelhaney14 |
Only other things that comes to my mind is the crankshaft output seal, starter gasket and pop the stator plug out of the case, apply some sealant around it and pop it back in. Bill | ||
| Harleyelf |
What Bill said. The stator plug gets hard and can put a puddle of oil under your starter, which is not an easy area to clean. Your crankshaft seal is the old single-lip style unless it has already been upgraded; the new one fits right in once you mangle the old one out. | ||
| Jolly |
Is there a tool to easily remove the old one? I've got two bikes coming down for routine mx once it warms up enough to work in the garage. I know there are a few threads on making your own tool for seating the new seal, but, anyone have a mfg part number to just buy one? with 5 of these things that I plan to keep, I don't mind spending money on good tools. | ||
| Oopezoo |
I'm not sure if it will help, but I've had luck with this in the past on other seals. Drill a small pilot hole in the seal (sometimes two). Then screw a small sheet metal screw just far enough into the seal for it to grab hold. Then grab the head(s) of the screw(s) with vice grips and give it a yank. It hasn't failed me yet. For driving seals, I have always used a combo of PVC pipe, deep well sockets, and large washers. Some combination of the the three always seems to fit the bill. That being said, I've never tackled a crankshaft output seal on a Buell, but maybe I can give you some insight next week | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
How do you get the stator plug out? Just push from the inside to the outside? | ||
| Oopezoo |
That's a good question.....lol. I looked at it a few minutes ago and just shrugged my shoulders and figured I'd get a closer look tomorrow. | ||
| Harleyelf |
Push the stator plug from outside to inside with a bit of WD-40 to lube it. If I had to do it again, I'd make a bar with a bolt threaded in the center and two screws on the ends, screw the two screws into the metal seal and tighten the bolt against the crankshaft end until the screws lifted the seal out. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
It helps to heat the stator plug with a heat gun set on low. Don't heat too long, just lo9ng enough to soften it up a bit. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
I used a slide hammer with a small hook, worked fine. There are too many ways of faking it, drilling holes and self tapping screws and all that are doing it the hard way. There is a thread I hijacked a couple years ago in the archives showing many of the wrong tools/wrong ways to go about it, since I let people lead me to believe it was a harder project to get it out than it should be. It's not that hard to get the crank seal out unless you mangle it trying to do it the wrong way. Just use a seal puller with a small hook on it, the double ended ones are too big. If you want a link I'll post it, October of 2012, but I hesitate to put it up for fear of someone not reading all the way through. Seal puller for the crank seal or a "L" bent tip standard screwdriver, prolly best for removal. | ||
| 14d |
I picked up one of these a while ago, and it is AWESOME. Makes pulling seals sooo easy it paid for itself the first time IMO. http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-58430-Shaft-Type-Pulle r/dp/B000FPYW4K | ||
| Oopezoo |
14D.....that thing looks really handy. I'm glad they had a diagram there of it "in use". Just looking at it had me scratching my head. Anyway......I placed an order for everything I think I need to get things fixed and back together. Minus the "special tools" and the clutch plates needed to replace the grenade plate. One of my buddies in the machine shop at work is fabbing me up a seal driver for the crank seal and also a slightly modified primary locking tool. I'm drilling a hole in the center of it so it can double as a cross bar on my ghetto clutch release tool (a 1" cross section of 3" PCV pipe). I'm skipping the cam lock tool for the other side as I'm assuming I can properly torque the pinion nut by locking up the primary on the other side. I have my fingers crossed I can find a couple of lightly used clutch plates from a local shop instead of buying new ones, but I'll go that route if I have to. Now comes the waiting and prep work while the parts truck their way here from the left coast. Thanks for the input guys. I'll take some pics once I start wrenching on it | ||
| Jolly |
If your buddy is making a seal driving tool any chance he can turn a few more? Ill buy one if he can!  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Me too! | ||
| Bluzm2 |
If needed I can take measurements off mine. | ||
| Charlies_s1 |
Not really a good idea to lock it from the primary side, I would see if you can borrow one from someone close by. Just my opinion. Keep up the good work.  | ||
| Jolly |
+1 You should lock the pinion shaft with a proper tool instead of locking it on the primary side. I've got a tool i can loan you if needed. (Message edited by Jolly on March 02, 2015) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Yes, don't use the primary to lock the crank. (Message edited by ft bstrd on March 02, 2015) | ||
| Harleyelf |
A bicycle spoke makes a great hook-ended slide hammer. Got threads to take the plug at the end and many are made of good stainless steel. Just get a plug of brass and drill a hole down the middle, then cap it with a washer and the spoke nipple. | ||
| Oopezoo |
So whats the reason that its such a bad idea to use the primary lock tool to hold everything stationary while I torque the pinion nut on the cam side? If its good enough to lock the primary nut to 240 ftlbs, why wouldn't it be ok for the 45 ftlbs on the pinion nut? I know they sell a cam locking tool, but the factory manual doesn't make any mention of it. The other option I was thinking was to just lock up the rear wheel. Is there a chance I could damage something with crank? Not being a smart ass, I'm generally curious as this is my first real experience wrenching on a V-Twin. All of my previous experience has been with Japanese inline 4's and BMW boxer motors. Jolly......if need be, I will gladly take you up on the offer to borrow the proper tool. Harleyelf.......Great idea on the mini slide hammer. I'm going to make on of those weather I need it for this project or not. (Message edited by OoPEZoO on March 03, 2015) | ||
| Reepicheep |
The only thing I didn't like about locking the primary side to tighten that nut was the fact that I had to dismantle the primary side to do it. It was a long time ago, but I think it was hard to do it with the rear wheel locked, the clutch wanted to slip. Which maybe supports the assertion that locking anywhere but that side is a bad idea, as perhaps you are loading the crank in ways it would otherwise never see. A buell clutch doesn't slip easily. | ||
| Oopezoo |
Your thoughts about not wanting to tear into the primary side are valid, and why I figured they developed a tool to hold the cams in the first place. At least that was my guess. In my case, I'm already into the primary so I can replace the chain tensioner, grenade plate, and crank seal. So I figured I would just put the cam side back together while I have the primary locked. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
DO NOT lock the motor from the primary side! From Hammer Performance website: If you're changing the pinion gear and/or the oil pump drive gear, you need this tool! If you hold the crank still from the other side of the assembly - the primary side, or by putting the bike in gear and holding the brake - you apply twisting force through the crank pin, and the crank pin is not designed to resist much twisting force. You run the very real risk of knocking the crank out of true, which requires a full tear-down to fix. Don't take the risk, get yourself one of our exclusive Grindlock pinion locking tools. We work on these bikes all the time, and frankly the other offerings on the market for this function frustrated us with weak teeth that liked to push away from the pinion gear. The Grindlock design solves that problem. It also engages for the full depth of the pinion gear for maximum strength. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
This^^^^^^ | ||
| Charlies_s1 |
I have one of Jim's tools and one of the Hammer's and can say the Hammer's holds the gear across its width and much better than the other, part of what destroys the pinion gear is the shaft not running true. Don't take a chance on twisting the shaft. Great idea to change the seal, grenade plate and adjusting shoe! | ||
| Oopezoo |
Funny....I literally just found that on the Hammer site and was coming back here to post it. Good info to know, and thank you for the heads up. Jolly you have a PM headed your way. | ||
| Jolly |
I have one of the Jims tools, Im actually on my second one, the first tool lasted for about 4 drive gear swaps then the tips of a few teeth broke, unfortunately, while a friend was borrowing it, he replaced it though!! When this one goes bad it will be replaced with the one from Hammer.... | ||
| Jolly |
tools are headed your way. I sent the brand new one and the worn one so that you can see how this particular tool wears or breaks and how its different than the Hammer branded tool. Isn't there a difference in the depth of the teeth of the pinion gear for older versus newer pinion gears for HCR cams for the newer style? Its possible that this tool is designed for the gear tooth pattern in both the old and the new pinion gears? and it's the intent to fit both patterns that make this one not seat real well on the old style? | ||
| Charlies_s1 |
On the Hammer tools there are two different ones. | ||
| Charlies_s1 |
Could be but I think the Jim's tool also has two different tools. |
