| Author | Message | ||
     Buellrobot |
02 X1, have had it out for a few short 60 mile rides this season and it has been starting like a champ (as it generally always has). Two nights ago I was going to meet someone and the bike really didn't want to start. I would crank and it would start to run for a revolution and then die. After three minutes of coaxing it finally started and once it was running it felt great. 7 miles later, I got to where I was going, stayed for 1.5 hours, and bike started without hesitation and I came home. Yesterday evening I tried to start it and it refused to get past that first rumble of the engine starting to go. When I turn the key, I hear the pump prime and it turns over easily and sounds normal, but just won't catch and run for more than the first thump. Can confirm the following: *New battery 4 months ago, terminals are tight *Plugs & spark plug cables new 7 months ago *TPS reset 4 weeks ago *ECM spy no error codes Looking at manual, it looks like these should be my priorities: *check plugs *check ignition coil (never done this) *check timing (did this a year ago or so) *check fuel pressure? Trying to make sure I'm on right track and not forgetting anything basic. Any suggestions or ideas from the badweb pros are much appreciated  | ||
| Harleyelf |
Check under the timing cover and see if the cam position sensor smells burnt. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Dont ride 7 miles and quit. That doesn't get you to full operating temp, or out of coldstart enrichment, and it doesn't burn all the moisture out of your oils. Rule of thumb is the "half hour law" - if you aren't going to ride for a half hour...don't start the engine. | ||
| Buellrobot |
Plugs look OK to me – a little sooty, esp on rear plug, but not too bad. Ignition coil readings seem to be double what the manual suggests (Primary recommended: 0.5-0.7 ohms, Secondary recommended: 5.5k-7.5k ohms – see below for 1.2 and 11.7k readings). I'm not good with an ohmmeter, so could be doing it wrong, but I get same readings w/ alligator clips or directly contacting the prongs/pins.    Guess it's potentially ignition coil, but I've read in an old thread that someone was seeing similar behavior and same multimeter readings (ended up being a faulty ETS). Next thing to check is timing and CPS. Fuel pressure seems unlikely, since it runs so well once it has fired up. Maybe a sensor? I replaced my ETS a few years ago, but guess those do go bad pretty easily – would rather rule other things out before I spend $$ on an ETS. @Harleyelf - Thanks for the suggestion – will take a look. Wish the cover wasn't held on with rivets. (I do have replacement rivets and gun, so not end of the world) @Ratbuell - cruel law indeed, when your bike lives in a tiny place like Rhode Island How likely are occasional short rides to contribute to somewhat sudden start-up failure? | ||
| Harleyelf |
Are those rivets the Harley no-shard type? You can't use regular pop rivets because they shed bits of metal which can really ruin your day. Most guys get a screw-on Sportster cover to replace the stock cover. When the CPS goes out it often looks burnt. Remember to scribe a timing mark if you take it off. | ||
| Buellrobot |
@Harleyelf – had no idea about the pop rivets. I think the ones I used are just regular aluminum type. Damn. How likely is that to cause a problem? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Probably depends on the rivets. On some of the shorter ones in other applications, I've seen the head part of the pin fly free. But in the longer ones, no way is it going anywhere. Take a couple of the rivets and put them through something about the same thickness, and see how captured the heads are. | ||
| Firemanjim |
Timing almost never an issue. Check fuel pressure and if you have ECM-Spy what is AFV? | ||
| Jim2 |
Here are a couple of posts that mention replacing the pop rivets with screws: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=32777&post=434928 Described a little better here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=142838&post=701292#POST701292 | ||
| Buellrobot |
@FMJ AFV seems to look pretty good – says it's 103.9  As far as fuel pressure gauges go, will any inexpensive version with a schrader valve work? (Message edited by buellrobot on May 08, 2014) | ||
| Two_seasons |
Replace your Engine Temp. Sensor! http://americansportbike.com/newdir/Item/17035 http://americansportbike.com/newdir/Item/16140 | ||
| Kalali |
According to your list from the FSM the fuel pressure test should be next. | ||
| Phlegm |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?47623/734365 http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?47623/728416 Check out these threads. It could be the fuel pump regulator or the orings used to seal it. (Message edited by Phlegm on May 09, 2014) | ||
| Buellrobot |
I was able to borrow a fuel pressure gauge from the local auto zone (w/ a deposit). It doesn't seem to be working, although I can't tell if a) I'm able to use it properly since the bike won't start OR b) if it's functioning properly. I hooked up the gauge to the schrader valve on the pump, primed the pump a few times, bled the gauge, and then when I would prime/attempt to start. The gauge would register like 2 psi when I primed the pump, but wouldn't really move at all when I cranked. The manual says "Open throttle and increase engine speed to 2500-3000 RPM. Note the reading on the pressure gauge." It could also be that the fuel gauge is faulty – I will see if I can hook it up to another vehicle and see if it functions as expected. Oh and option c) is that there's something wrong w/ the pump, of course. (Message edited by buellrobot on May 10, 2014) | ||
| Bsanorton |
If you think it might be the fuel pump or regulator my link could help. Was easy for me to do and saved some money. I thought my gauge wasn't working wither. Then someone said to pull off the fuel line and see if the gas squirts out when trying to start it didn't.. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/476 23/734365.html?1399749674 | ||
| Buellrobot |
@Bsanorton Thanks for the link. Where did you end up purchasing your pump? In contrast to your experience, I was able to prime the pump and get a decent amount of gasoline to flow through the bleed valve in the gas pressure gauge, so it's not like there's no pressure, maybe low pressure, but it seems to be pumping a decent amount of gas out through the bleed valve. I did notice that last time I took my fuel tank off, there was a small stream of gas continually coming out of the length of hose attached to the fuel pump. I needed to stick a plug in the hose to stop gas from getting everywhere, but hadn't thought much of it. Wonder if I'm losing pressure out of some part of the system that's supposed to be sealed? | ||
| Bsanorton |
Ordered from high flow fuel, although their web site has a different name..Seems it's their Motorcycle/ATV/Boat site: http://www.fuelpumpsource.com/product-p/hfp-361bu- 23788.htm Yeah, gas was dribbling out and didn't stop for awhile when I pulled off the hose, scrammbled for a bucket and spare hose. The pump sounded good and bench tested good. The regulator was loose and spun in it's seat. I replaced both and that cured me. I was not getting any pressure. | ||
| Buellrobot |
Waiting on a pump regulator I ordered from local dealership. Will report back once I swap out... hope that gets me back on the road. | ||
| Lynrd |
What part number for the regulator?? Gloria's pump shows the same symptoms - dribbles gas and spins in the seat... | ||
| Buellrobot |
Fuel pump regulator: P0166.k | ||
| Bsanorton |
I ordered the regulator from here, on sale: http://www.surdyke.com/AdvPartInfo.asp?PartNumber= P0166.K | ||
| Neversellit |
Bsanorton, How did your order go from surdyke? Did they actually have it in stock and have you received it? Thanks for any info as I need one too and tried calling and emailing them with no response...... like many other online co's to busy I guess or maybe not in stock?? | ||
| Buellrobot |
@Neversellit - I inquired at Surdyke and they don't stock parts. They say they order them from HD on demand, so you need to add processing time for that. Looked like it was going to be 10-15 days total, so I ordered it from the local dealership (Precision HD in Pawtucket – good folks there) and got it in 7 days. Long story short is I got the pump regulator and it didn't solve the problem, bike still wouldn't start. That said, I continued to work on it, and the bike is running now. Only thing is I'm not sure what solved the problem. I pulled out the throttle body/intake manifold and did the following: *Cleaned & re-oiled forcewinder intake *Scraped off old breather gaskets (they were toast and hard as hell to get off – ended up getting some permatex stuff to help) *Plugged evap hose barb (I think the rubber cap had been missing for a while) *New intake manifold seals *Pulled out injectors and flushed bi-directionally with fuel (based on a method I found on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffdPCno5izU ) *Lubed injectors and put a little sil-glyde on the intake seals *Reinstalled and snugged everything up Bike fired right up. Did a TPS reset and took it for a spin this afternoon – still has mild decel popping, as usual, but throttle felt very responsive (like maybe I had some intake leaks before that got worked out). Now just need to get that occasional false neutral figured out. Riding the damn thing always puts a smile on my face! Oh, and thanks to everyone here for encouragement and suggestions. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
So you're thinking an intake leak? | ||
| Buellrobot |
Intake leak or possibly a clogged injector? The whole thing seems a little baffling to me. I checked the battery, plugs, cables, coil, and the electrical connections relating to the fuel system, so I don't think it was one of those. The whole time it would readily turn over and always seemed like it wanted to start (it sometimes would ignite for what seemed like one rotation and then immediately die). I would have thought that even if a single injector was clogged, it could potentially run on a single cylinder... though I don't understand the mechanics well enough to know if that's actually true. Could it have been a safety switch kicking it off? Maybe I somehow jostled it on/off? The bike was on a rear stand the whole time I worked on it (and wouldn't start) and when it finally started, it was still on the stand and it started without hesitation. (Message edited by buellrobot on June 04, 2014) | ||
| Bsanorton |
sorry, missed this, yes online and I received the regulator promptly. Had to wait on the fuel pump because they were in the middle of upgrading there web site. |
