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Jolly
| Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2013 - 11:31 pm: |
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well I thought my push rod tube gasket was leaking but it is almost certainly the rear cylinder base gasket. I just finished a Triumph Thruxton big bore build and clutch and not sure I have the time or energy to tear another motor down. the project minded part says do it your self, the practical side says, time to ride after just finishing a motor build...that I am still breaking in (only 50 miles on very tight top end) so drop this one off and take the phone call when its done. its a rabbit hole for sure...as long as I am in there I ought to go ahead and do the rocker box upgrade, as long as I am in there whats the shape of the oil pump drive gear, as long as I am in there... top end was rebuilt by PO, what size head gasket was used, its higher compression does it use .030 or .040 head gasket? if I pull the cylinder do I leave the piston seated inside so I don't have to hone the cylinder and buy new rings? the front cylinder isn't leaking at all...do I just "attack" the leaking rear cylinder or as long as its torn down do I go ahead and at least replace the visibly checked push rod tube gaskets even though they are not leaking yet?? by the way, monstrous deep oil filter (black) what could it be since its not a HD short filter? bike runs great and well cared for by PO, not an attack or slant on PO by ANY MEANS...good dude who still misses this bike!! GRRRR..... |
Dannybuell
| Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 12:20 am: |
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How many miles are on the Bike? |
Jolly
| Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 08:48 am: |
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25,616 miles on bike, not sure how many on fresh top end... I have a good shop here I trust and he enjoys working on EVERYTHING from Triumphs, to Buells, choppers, customs, HDs, Victorys....so I could just drop it off and continue to focus on my Triumph motor break in or tear another motor down....tempted to drop it off if the price of labor is reasonable... |
Arizona_buell
| Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 09:00 am: |
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define "REASONABLE" You should get a swarm of reactions from the above post. :-) If funds are greater than your time or desire then drop it off. At the very least you would have some form of guarantee if it is not right the first time. You know the rest of the story so I won't bore you with opinions.. Your world your money your bike. |
Jolly
| Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 09:04 am: |
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yeah......I just spent 3 days building a motor...and here I go again is not what I was looking for....but I'm guessing here I go again.... so, here comes the opinions...better to pull piston from cylinder and re-hone and re-ring or keep pistons in cylinder and pull circlip and wrist pin to leave piston in cylinder and not have to re-hone and re-ring since its a relatively new top end build? |
Blks1l
| Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 09:29 am: |
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If you pull the cylinder off of the piston you don't have to re-ring and r-ehone before you reassemble it. (Message edited by Blks1l on May 24, 2013) |
Ratbuell
| Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 10:06 am: |
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If it's running well with no skips or compression issues...leave the piston in the jug. Do the pushrod seals - as soon as you release the tension by pulling the head, your seals are toast. The "upgrade dilemma" is always there - XB boxes, oil drive gear, etc - so I can't help you with that. If it's a fresh motor, chances are it has the new drive gear anyway...I'd contact the PO and see if he has a parts list or remembers what he put in it when he built it. Might save some teardown time, only to realize "oh...it already has XYZ...". |
Dannybuell
| Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 01:56 pm: |
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save it for the winter. A leaking base gasket is unsightly but not the end of the world. |
Jolly
| Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 02:05 pm: |
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I think "winter project" might win unless it gets worse... By the way, what oil filter that's really deep fits these bikes? Most certainly not a HD filter, it's deep! |
Arizona_buell
| Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 04:36 pm: |
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Might be a good idea to check the head bolts for tightness???A.S.A.P. |
Jolly
| Posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 - 11:31 pm: |
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thanks Arizona, checked the two that I can easily get to, they are tight! I've been cleaning and watching and cleaning and watching, and its starting to look like its leaking from the rear cylinder front push rod tube (intake)retainer, looks like its leaking under it instead of at the o-ring on top of the retainer. ....in the event it is a base gasket does the motor have to come out for that job? or is there enough room to pull the jugs without pulling the motor? I called PO and he said he had a terrible time getting the push rod tubes to seal so between that note from PO and the watching and cleaning and watching and cleaning...I am back to thinking that's where the leak is coming from....rear cylinder intake push rod retainer between retainer and motor....common? my other two bikes don't leak there so not common for me anyway.... was planning a two day ride about 300 miles out and then come home.... on the fence about taking the bike in AM, I don't mind carrying a quart of oil with me but afraid of doing any damage to motor...have heard no worries, just keep it topped off.... |
Jolly
| Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2013 - 08:54 am: |
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Anyone using "time savers" collapsable push rod so that in the future you don't have to take the head off? Id like to not have to pull the heads since they don't leak, but cutting stock push rods?? Lots of HDs use the time savers (like THAT'S sound logic...) |
Ratbuell
| Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2013 - 09:17 am: |
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I had adjustable pushrods in my old Evo FLHP. All it really did was add another "check" to my periodic maintenance, making sure the locknuts were staying tight and the pushrods weren't coming out of adjustment. For my money, get NRHS pushrod bases. Remove the rockerbox, remove the pushrods, cut the pushrod TUBE, and install the collapsible pushrod tubes (keep the stock pushrods). The only thing you really have to remove the head for, is the tube itself - the pushrod comes out after you remove the rocker arm plate. But with the NRHS bases (or a similar one-piece base)...at least in my experience...you won't get leaks again anyway If you pull the head to pull the tubes, yes...replace the base gasket as well since you've unloaded the torque. |
Jolly
| Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2013 - 11:33 pm: |
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I spent 750 miles in the last two days on my Street glide while my buddy was on his Ducatic ST3 running the twisties on blueridge and 56 and other roads and all I could think about was wishing I was on the Buell ST3 and how to go about this job of fixing it and agree, I think pull the push rods, cut the tubes and install the collapsible tubes...don't crack open the motor since it doesn't leak...and go from there. what's the best way to cut the stock push rod tubes? NRHS sell the best collapsible tubes as well as the best one piece bases? |
Oldog
| Posted on Monday, May 27, 2013 - 12:05 am: |
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I might be wrong here I presume that once the push rods are out, and the base plates are unfastened that the tubes push up and slip out. IIRC, the tubes are sealed by an oring at the top and a rubber ring under the bottom retainer, with one bolt fixing each lower standard base (4) The standard retainer also is located by a spring pin protruding from the case. so unbolt it lift it up, grasp the tube and force it up a bit to compress the oring and then swing it out. The standard tube bases are thin and flimsy, and the standard tube seals (bottom) were a pain to get right. I used standard parts a couple of years ago when I had to replace a jug (found it repairing the front head) I have had almost 25K miles with no leakage issues, YMMV. |
Oldog
| Posted on Monday, May 27, 2013 - 12:08 am: |
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sorry I used both base and retainer to describe the same part, Rat calls them bases |
Jolly
| Posted on Monday, May 27, 2013 - 08:47 am: |
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Old dog, so the push rod tubes will come out if the push rods are removed? That would be perfect! I could do the xb rocker box conversion ( not currently leaking) and solve this leak with out having to pull head and jugs. I didnt know there was enough "play" to pull the tubes and retainers without lifting the heads.... |
Ratbuell
| Posted on Monday, May 27, 2013 - 09:26 am: |
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Now that Oldog mentions it...I *think* you can undo the bases and wedge the tubes out. I think. Sometimes they are in tight, sometimes you scar the base of the case...but you should be able to get them out of the way so you can install the collapsible tubes. If they do scrape the case, make sure you get all the bits out of the lifter bores before you button everything back up |
Orngm2
| Posted on Monday, May 27, 2013 - 07:57 pm: |
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Pull pushhrods out... remove pushrod base bolt... remove pushrod covers... replace seal and upper oring ... install covers pushrods. Very simple. |
Tod662
| Posted on Monday, May 27, 2013 - 10:20 pm: |
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Oil filter is probebly from a ford v8. It gives you about another half quart capacity. (70s- 80s 351, if i remember) |
Arizona_buell
| Posted on Monday, May 27, 2013 - 10:40 pm: |
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Yes for sure you can change the pushrod tube seals without removing the heads. You will of course have to remove the rocker boxes and pushrods. |
Oldog
| Posted on Monday, May 27, 2013 - 11:09 pm: |
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Jolly, Yes the tubes are removable by as described, pull the rocker boxes, and then remove the push rods, note positions as they are different lengths. remove the thin base plates, PUSH UP REAL HARD on the tubes ( like you are trying to push them up thru the heads ) you are compressing an oring that is around the top of the tube. They will JUST come out, RAT is correct in that IF you don't push hard enough you could mar the case. BTW slip them out by moving them over the lifter hole ( additional clearence ) VS say front / back ( go out to the side ) the little bases are thin and IF you miss the line up pin you have to replace them ( you can almost bend them with your hand ) (Message edited by oldog on May 27, 2013) |
Ratbuell
| Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2013 - 12:57 pm: |
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Pushrod tubes are leak prone to begin with. I recommend the collapsible tubes just because they reduce the potential for more leaks and boogered new seals because you shoved the OEM tubes back in...but its your call. |
Jolly
| Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2013 - 05:29 pm: |
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Did more research today, going with NRHS collapsable pushrod tube and single base package with stock push rods and xb rockerbox conversion. The complete package sold by NRHS allows for base to be installed then each tube seperately. Both NRHS and American Sport Bike quit carrying the single base for use with stock solid tubes due to the number of calls about issues installing.... Better than stock for sure but tricky to install, so going the easier and better (more expensive) route ..... Order parts and install! |
Buellmanmike
| Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2019 - 10:15 pm: |
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Just got my X1 back together, after getting hit. 1250 big bore kit. Rode it a couple times and it felt GREAT so far, but my base gaskets are leaking like an old dirty hooker...So I am about to tear it all down again. Fun times....Hopely the 2nd time's the charm... |
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