| Author | Message | ||
     B1rdman |
Do you know WHY it is walking off the shaft? Do you have a parts number I could use for a new bearing and seal? | ||
| Reepicheep |
I seem to recall there are actually two bearings in there. And what is up with the welded and hacked up locking plate? Somebody might have been in there messing with stuff before. To replace that bearing, you will need to pull the tranny and press out the 5th gear drive assembly (where that bearing sits). Then you will need to press out the originals (it is supposed to be a real bugger to get out of there, but one of yours looks ready to jump). Maybe that bearing failed before, and they put in the wrong replacement bearing, and that is why it is a loose fit. Once you pull out the tranny, you can look for other damage (like a hacked up output shaft, mine was destroyed when those bearings failed, likely the result of me following the manual which meant my belt was too tight). You could drive that bearing back in carefully, and put in a new seal with some RTV, and see if it walks again. To do it you probably want to slice open some copper pipe and make it the right diameter to be a driver you can tap on. Don't tap hard or you will ruin the 5th gear outer bearing. It will probably walk again, but it would be such an easy thing to do I would be tempted to try it. I don't think it will do any additional damage that isn't already done. The real load bearing bearing there is the one outside that 5th gear assembly, not the one you have walking out in the middle there. Your dealer can get the parts. Either the Buell part, or just get the part for a sportster of a similar vintage. They weren't expensive. | ||
| B1rdman |
Actually, that's exactly what I just did haha. I had a heavy duty socket that fit perfectly in there that I used to help pound it back in evenly. I was careful about it and didn't hit it too hard. Light taps. It's now flush on the shaft. I was kinda afraid to even admit doing that, but since you suggested it, I'll fess up haha. Where is this seal that everyone talks about? Here's a diagram that I'm using as reference from the manual:  Apparently I'm missing a retaining ring which is why the bearing was walking itself off.. But I don't see any seal that has been mentioned? | ||
| Serialk |
....its walking off the shaft because it needs to be replaced....torque and hard launches makes it walk off the shaft. you need a tool to replace it with a new one so it is at the correct depth....There is no retaining ring for that bearing... the retaining ring you are looking at is the mainshaft bearing retaining ring... you can pound it back in for a TEMPORARY fix. but it will walk off again. and if it walks off completely well then thats a whole different can o worms... here is a link to when i did mine a few years back. oh and the seal is behind the sprocket...left hand thread btw...http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php? t=766754&page=2 I made my own tools.to do this job. 12,000km and no problems and the mainshaft seal is part number 12067a and quad seal 11165 and the roller needle bearing is 35051-89.. there is an inner and an outer needle bearing! replace both! with seal 12030 | ||
| Kalali |
So I assume when the bearing lip is flush with the shaft the remaining recessed area is covered with the seal? I'd be nice to see a picture of of what the "good" bearing/shaft/seal looks like. | ||
| Oldog |
There is a plastic disc that snaps into the 5th gear at the outside end its missing as well as the bearing being out of place. That bearing is full of dirt...... | ||
| Serialk |
Kalali. 8th picture down on my link shows the correct depth of bearing on mainshaft. | ||
| B1rdman |
So after tapping the bearing back in I rode it for 30 minutes, taking it easy. Got back and not a drop of oil anywhere or on the floor. Next morning I look and still no oil anywhere. Bearing hadn't moved at all either. So I rode it another 30 minutes, this time a little more aggressive. Parked it and not a drop of oil. Then after it sat for about 4 hours, I got on and rode it for 30 mins to a store. Got there and it was coated in oil on the right side and had again sprayed my pants with oil and the rear tire. Checked the bearing and it's still right where I left it. Oil is all around that area again though. Where is the oil vent tube for the primary? I can't find it. More pics:    | ||
| Kevmean |
It will carry on pissing oil out of that bearing until you fit a new seal in the end of the shaft ..... that bearing should not be visable. You can either fit an original seal back in there or like a lot of UK riders do have an aluminium disc machined to fit in it's place with a grease nipple in the centre of it to help keep that needle bearing lubricated (some bikes have problems of that bearing running dry, you obviously don't at the minute) | ||
| Kevmean |
And make sure that the rear belt is slack enough so that you can get it to touch the top and bottom of the swingarm at the same time using hand pressure. | ||
| Kalali |
How do you put the seal back in there? I have no oil leaks but mine looks just like Wes's. And I just picked up the seal (updated part # for 12067a, ~$8) from the dealer. Does the sprocket need to be removed in order to install the seal? | ||
| Kevmean |
Are you talking about the main seal behind the sprocket or the small disc shaped seal that is missing from the centre of the shaft in the above photos? The one missing in the above photos just taps into the end of the shaft until flush. | ||
| B1rdman |
Yeah I think he is talking about the cap since he has no oil leak/spewage. I'm needing to address the seal behind the sprocket as well as the cap. Would a cap stop the oil leak/spewage though? Where is the tranny/primary oil vent tube btw? | ||
| Kevmean |
It looks like your lost oil is all coming from where the missing plugseal should be in the end of the shaft, if the main gearbox seal had gone the oil would be coming from behind the pulley, with the belt at the correct tension if there is no play in the mainshaft bearings ( ie able to rock the pulley about ) just replace the plug seal. The transmission vent tube is from the top of the gearbox and dissappears along the inside of the right hand seat subframe up towards the tail of the bike. | ||
| B1rdman |
That is some GREAT news to hear, Kevin! I found no play in the pulley when I went and tested it just now. I'll go get a plug seal tomorrow morning from the HD dealer. Everyone was saying that if the motor sprocket seal went bad that the oil would flood into the primary from the engine and out the VENT TUBE. So if it doesn't appear that the oil is coming from there, but instead from the mainshaft, then I could feel a little more confident about that motor sprocket seal? Where is the engine oil vent tube? I thought it was fuel vent tube for a long while until I traced it just now. | ||
| B1rdman |
What's the part number for that cover/plug seal? | ||
| Kevmean |
I'm not sure about the part number ....that picture you posted of the parts breakdown might show it higher up the page if you still have access to that. If I was you I'd change the gearbox oil as well so that you are 100% certain you have the correct amount in there it takes exactly one quart. | ||
| B1rdman |
I posted some other questions above that btw. And thanks again for your help! | ||
| Alfau |
Seal is depicted in Transmission gears, Page 28,29 of pdf manual; or type page 29 in adobe . See #8 oil seal. Breather hose for transmission is located on the Right hand side, inside the seat sub frame. Important to replace missing oil in the transmission.It might sort the clutch problems also. | ||
| Kalali |
This is the seal that I picked up and I'm pretty sure is the one behind the pulley. I wonder if that's what causing your oil leak. By the way that retaining bracket is around $25 and comes with the big nut. http://www.jpcycles.com/product/603-449 | ||
| B1rdman |
But as Kevin speculated, if I don't have any pulley wobble, it could be just due to missing the outside plug seal (and not the seal behind the pulley)? Ok so just to get this straight, BOTH the engine AND primary oil vent tubes are located in the subframe?? Is one on each side or something? Kalali: That one in the link said it was for the "left side"...not sure if there's any difference though. But I'm gonna try to get that plug first. Wish I knew the part number. Is this it? http://www.jpcycles.com/product/610-037 (Message edited by b1rdman on May 16, 2013) | ||
| Hootowl |
"Ok so just to get this straight, BOTH the engine AND primary oil vent tubes are located in the subframe?? " I have a 99 X1, and the tranny vent is directly over the engine oil bag under the seat. Not sure where it is on a 2000 model, but you might start there. | ||
| Kalali |
"...it could be just due to missing the outside plug seal (and not the seal behind the pulley)?" Not sure if this helps but mine has been missing this so-called plug since I got the bike many years ago and I've never seen a drop of oil coming from that area. I think that plug serves mostly as a dust cap to keep road grime from getting into the outer bearing area. While looking for the OEM plug, I think I have some chairs around the house that have plastic caps on the legs and may be the right size. I'll put some grease in there as well...Call it redneck engineering. | ||
| B1rdman |
Yeah after going to the HD dealer and looking at other schematics of sportster 1200 engines, as well as my own manual, I am unable to find ANYTHING that shows that cap. So unfortunately it probably is my oil seal behind the sprocket.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
If the crank seal goes, you will blow transmission fluid out the vent tube, that as Hoot says is under the seat. It coats the rear wheel / swingarm. You are missing a seal that is inside the 5th gear drive assembly, which is what your sprocket is attached too. Your transmission output shaft rides inside that assembly on the bearings you saw creeping out. Without that seal on there, it will absolutely puke oil. That's why there is supposed to be a seal there.  The other seal could be failing as well (the one on the outside of the 5th gear drive assembly, rather than the inside). But no point chasing that until you fix the one obvious link that you know you have. Fix that one, clean it up, ride it, and see if it leaks again. The seal should just tap in. Preferably with a seal/bearing driver. But you could probably do it carefully with a wood dowel in a pinch. For that matter, you could probably do it fine with a piece of old plastic milk jug cut carefully to the right size, then pressed in there gently, then sealed from the outside with RTV. I wouldn't, but I bet you could. | ||
| Kalali |
The transmission breather tube is in the same spot in the 2000 MY. If you remove the seat and run your finger under right side of the tail section you should feel a tube tucked in there. As for the engine, there are two breather "holes', one on each head. If you still have the stock plastics, you'll need to remove the right side plastic to see the throttle body and the right side of the heads. One breather hole is on top left of the front and top right of the rear head. Look in that J&P Cycles site and look for Sportster breathers. There are a whole bunch of pictures showing the outlet holes. If your bike is stock they are probably routed into the intake right behind the air filter. | ||
| B1rdman |
@Bill: I don't think the oil is coming from that vent tube...BUT, the oil in the tank has been getting lower and lower with each ride. So I have contradicting things here...is it possible that the crank seal is bad but is leaking out of the primary drive shaft instead of building up enough pressure to vent out of the tube? As for this: "You are missing a seal that is inside the 5th gear drive assembly, which is what your sprocket is attached too. Your transmission output shaft rides inside that assembly on the bearings you saw creeping out. Without that seal on there, it will absolutely puke oil. That's why there is supposed to be a seal there" Could you please provide a picture of said seal? I only know of two seals really...the one behind the sprocket, and the one that seems to be around the needle bearing on the outside. It has that one. Then there's that phantom cover that hides everything that isn't in my manual or on any other sportster engine that I could find. On this: "The other seal could be failing as well (the one on the outside of the 5th gear drive assembly, rather than the inside)" Did you mean to reverse that? As in the "other seal could be failing, that is on the inside (behind the sprocket and out of sight), rather than the outside which you can see?" | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/17322.html http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/17099.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdovl68LIFo | ||
| Reepicheep |
That's it! That first link is the "seal", which is really a plug. It fits *inside* the inner diameter of the 5th gear drive assembly. But on the outside of the bike. Sorry for the confusing terms. It is this one:  Thats the one you are missing, and it would absolutely leak, no question, if missing. So fix that first. The "outer" seal I was talking about is Brother's second link above. It goes on the outside of the 5th gear assembly, behind the sprocket. Again, sorry for the confusing "inside/outside" references.  You don't know if that one is leaking or not. I had one pop off when I had the belt too tight. I can confirm that also leaks when that happens. Solve that first, then chase the oil levels for the engine oil. There are all sorts of mysteries in there, you are best not spending too much time worrying about it unless you see a sudden and precipitous drop. Hard riding can make it vanish faster. Thinner oil can make it vanish faster. Heck, I had a XB9sx that would consume castrol 20w50 full synthetic at about 1/3 quart every 1000 miles, but would never burn any Valvoline full synthetic 20w50. Or so I thought by measuring it, who really knows. When and how you measured it also really matters. Hot? Cold? Level? After it was all pumped into the oil tank? And where you left it matters also. My M2, if I filled to the top dip stick fill mark, would promptly spit out a bunch of oil over the next 100 miles until it was just touching the bottom of the dipstick (below the low mark). If I Didn't refill it, it would stay right there for the next 3000 miles until I changed it. Fill it back up and she would spit it right back out. So chase one ghost at a time. And start with the one leaving oily footprints in the garage, it's easier to catch. (Message edited by reepicheep on May 16, 2013) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Here is what those inner bearings look like if you run the belt too tight, or if they don't get oil...  This threads describes how I got my 5th gear drive assembly out. Those pictures might explain a few things. I should have shot pictures of that part, it is an odd piece that is hard to describe. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=3842&post=198002#POST198002 |
