| Author | Message | ||
     Mrsandman |
Ok so I got my engine rebuilt by harley and they put it in and I rode the bike home and seemed ok, except for the occasional sputter. Funny but the sputter was more frequent at low speed and below 3000 rpm? Didn't think much of it, I know with the buell open/closed loop system, you have to ride them for a while so the computer learns the fuel/o2 system again. Well I kept happening so HD changed out the 02 sensor and once again it seemed fine for the first 10 miles, then sputtering and dying again. continously this time. So I learned that when my engine is warmed to max temp, the bike will die when under-load...(basically me putting the bike into 1st and trying to go) The bike tries to die unless I pull the clutch in quickly to keep it lit. But when cold, it doesn't do that? Not sure whats going on exactly but its got me thinking. HD says my fuel pump is normal my computer is in normal standard specs, my tps is reset, my cam position sensor is new and my air intake sensor is new. So im not sure where to begin. Any thoughts. Thanks. | ||
| Orngm2 |
If you have ecmspy, start the bike from cold and watch the engine temp value... see if it goes up in a linear fashion and stays steady. What is your AFV at? If no ecmspy sounds like a bad engine temp sensor or an airleak. Keep us informed | ||
| Mrsandman |
I do have ECM spy but I for some reason cant get the bike to connect to my computer. Its saying something to the effect of comm port not reading? I just checked my fuel pressure, and its steady at 50psi.I do also notice that my idle fluctuates + or - 50 rpm during normal idle warm engine. I'll check the air leak with a propance torch or unless there is an easier way to figure it out? I do have a hairline crack on the exhaust about 2" long, can that play a part in this? Thanks, i'll keep you up to speed... Oh. Not sure what AFV is, sorry still learning the whole system with the manuel. Thanks again. | ||
| Two_seasons |
When using ECMspy you'll need to first connect to the correct comm port. Using ECMspy, do an "auto" and let your computer find the correct setting. You'll also need to turn the "keys" in the upper left corner. Click on the "keys" to activate ECMspy. Idle will no be exactly a steady state. It will vary some. Use either propane or mapp gas (not lit) for checking intake seals for leaks. Yes, an exhaust leak can cause issues. | ||
| Two_seasons |
You'll not see any DTC's from the Engine Temp Sensor in ECMspy. More than likely your ETS sensor is gone/going out. On my 2000 X1, I replaced it along with my O2 sensor because I was having the same issues as you. Bike runs great now. At the time, I did not have access to ECMspy but, after reading what the ETS does on these bikes and the symptoms they cause, I bought another from American Sport Bike. Not sure I needed the O2 sensor, but replaced it anyway. If you do replace the O2 sensor, break the back-end of it off and then you can use a socket to break it free. I'd change out the ETS. Cheap and easy to do. You may want to buy the ETS tool for removal/install too. | ||
| Preybird1 |
@ mrsandman Ecyspy will not work on a computer until you install the driver that lets the cable info read on your pc! if you open the ecmspy help you can find it..................But here is what you need!  make sure the bike is warmed up before you reset the tps! | ||
| Preybird1 |
Another thing that can go wonky is the BAS sensor! Ask me how i know! It can make the bike surge and stall out of nowhere. Backfire hiccup and all sorts of funky stuff. Easy to disable and or remove it. | ||
| Preybird1 |
Oh and that crack in the header will cause problems too! I have seen it make a good bike run poorly. ETS= engine temp sensor BAS= bank angle sensor, Tip over safety shut down sensor. I tricky little Guy to see. AFV= air fuel value? TPS= throttle position senor. I would agree with two seasons on swapping the engine temp sensor also. It will do what your bike is doing also if this goes south. Nice thing is these little sensors are pretty cheap to change out. | ||
| Mrsandman |
Thanks so much guys, im reading that manual and trying to learn this beast. Thanks for the input and clarification. So I got the EcmSpy to work and I got some good info (I think) 1.) I got an error code flashing of 5050 or 0505 2.) After running it for 4 minutes my engine temp only read 80 degrees, so thats a red flag for me. That seems a bit low. 3.) AFV stayed at 80. Question...Is the ETS the same as the CHT (cylinder head temp sensor?) So it seems like I need to replace the CHT or ETS and seal up that exhaust crack. I may just use some fiberglass tape. Like I had mentioned earlier its a small crack, but worth trying.   I hope you can see these. Thanks guys! | ||
| Two_seasons |
Is that 80 degrees C or 80 degrees F after 4 minutes of idle? Yes, the ETS is the sensor that is mounted on top of the rear cylinder head. I forgot about the 99 being mounted on top of the cylinder instead of down in the hole, so you will not need the removal/install tool. Not sure what the code means. If your bike seems to be running on one cylinder when idling, doesn't accelerate under load without bucking, then your ETS is suspect. Make sure you have a fully charged battery during your testing and after all is done. Makes a big difference in how it all works together. | ||
| Pash |
Log some data and we will be able to see what the fuel and ignition system are being commanded to do... | ||
| Jramsey |
"AFV= air fuel value?" Adaptive Fuel Value is how the Buell automatically compensates for changes to the environment, eg riding up mountains, or swapping the muffler or air cleaner. | ||
| Mrsandman |
Thats actually in degrees C. I didn't realize that until you pointed that about. about 176 deg. F. So that shoud be about right. i'll plug it in again today and record more data and i'll get back to you on some of this stuff. Thanks for everything guys. | ||
| Henshao |
The kickstand sensor will also kill your engine. Could have a frayed lead or something. Just another thought. | ||
| Mrsandman |
So This morning I ran the bike and plugged in the ECMSPY and got a few readings. 5 min idle: -batt-12 volts -inlet air temp 21 deg c -Engine temp 60 deg C -AFV= 80 (never changed) -EGO voltage .50 -BAS .65 -WOT enrichment 100% -OL enrichment 100% -TPS 5.6 AFTER 10-12 mins -Engine temp 102 deg C -AFV 80 -Intake air 28 deg C -batt=12V -EGO voltage .41 -BAS .64 Interesting thing that happened is when I first started the bike this morning, it seemed to idle fine, but slow-ish, then die. So I start her up again and after 15 seconds, the same thing would happen. The 3rd time I tried the start her, the fuel pump did not even turn on, so I tried it again and nothing. after letting it sit for about 3 mins, it started again. This is actually about the 3rd time this week, it has happened to me. Do you think i'm due for a new fuel pump. Im pretty sure its the origional one in there. I did check the fuel pressure and its reading steady at 50 PSI. So despite all that I drive it in a circle in a parking lot and got it into 3rd grear at 25mph and remarkable, no sputtering or popping as im used to. I might take her down the road and see if she behaves for a bit longer. Other than that I used the propane gas to check for intake leaks, non found, so thats good. Well, let me know what you all think, thanks. Oh, HD removed and bypassed my kickstand sensor, they said it really wasn't necessary to have???} | ||
| Mrsandman |
Ok, so today after I ran it in the parking lot, I took it down a long straight road by my house and it was going fine up until I put it in 3rd gear at about 40 mph, and then it started to die on me. I pulled the clutch in and gave it some throttle and then it started to rev up fine (clutch in). So I try to go again and I got to second and it just died, it didn't even try to stay lit. So there i was on the side of the road, so I try to start it and the fuel pump didn't even respond...nothing! So I waited 3 mins and it started up. So I start going again and I get it into second gear and the same thing. it was bucking for a bit (no backfire's) and then it just died again. Same as before, the fuel pump didn't want to respond until after another 3 mins. Finally I limped it back to my garage and here I am. Im thinking the fuel pump might be going out. Or the CHT, but the temp seems to be reading just fine? | ||
| Two_seasons |
Pull the ETS wire and tape the end up. Take it for a ride and tell us what happened. | ||
| Preybird1 |
My factory pump is still working but it only has 13,000 miles on it. but there is a thread on here about using a fuel pump from a mustang for about $60 for the pump. You never know what is up.........I had an ecm short out on the o2 sensor pins and when it would get warm it would do all kinds of things. I wish i was closer to you because i have 2 other ecms that i use for diagnosing. | ||
| Mrsandman |
I'll pull the plug on the ETS tomorrow and give it a whirl and i'll let you know. My pump has about 20K on it, so i'm not sure how long these things last for but it just might be time for a new one. Like i said earlier, it completely cut out on me during a short ride and wouldn't even prime until after 3 mins or so. With or without a good O2 sensor, the fuel pump shouldn't be surging like that and then cutting out. The fuel pump costs about $359.00, so any input before I place the order next week would be a great help. | ||
| Firemanjim |
If your AFV is at 80 that means your ecm is seeing a rich condition and pulling 20% fuel EVERYWHERE in your map---really only thing that will do this is bad ETS telling bike it is cold and adding fuel like the choke, then as bike is warm the ecu will attempt to adjust to lean out the bike to what should be normal. Surprised it runs at all. Reset AFV to 100 and change ETS. | ||
| Two_seasons |
When you can, you should check all your grounds too. Could be some of your connectors have corrosion in them too. Easy way to "clean" them is to soak the male pins with quality electrical contact cleaner spray, then insert/remove/insert several times. Then spray again good and connect, moving on to the next one. Don't forget your fuse block, paying careful attention to your diodes and the direction they are connected. Pencil and paper works good to map them prior to removal. Same for the fuses as you have a couple of empty spots. | ||
| Mrsandman |
FIREMANJIM, I will reset the AFV tomorrow and see how it runs. my main concern is why is the fuel pump completely cutting out. im thinking its the pump or the relay. | ||
| Psykick_machanik |
by-pass the clutch switch. | ||
| Mrsandman |
Can't be that, the clutch switch is new and isn't posing any problems. This issues is happening when im in gear and in 2nd or 3rd. | ||
| Psykick_machanik |
Darn, was hoping for the simple fix. With it dying suddenly and no fuel pump sound is sure sounds like one of the dead man switches. Have you checked if your brakes are dragging? Another shot in the dark, have you done a compression check? (hot engine) I keep going back to its something they did on the rebuild. 90% of the time its whatever was touched last. good luck, hope you find this gremlin. | ||
| Mrsandman |
Brakes are not dragging, I reset the AFV from 80 to 100%, and it seemed to be running a bit better than last time. I was able to get it into 5th gear at 50mph where as before it was impossible to get it into 3rd with out completely surging and shutting down. I was actually able to ride it for about 25 minutes trouble free, until it started surging again and trying to die. It seems if i keep the RPM's up it wants to stay lit to some extent but ultimately it wants to give out on me. Weird. Im getting a great linear temp increase so im not suspecting the ETS (plugged into ecmspy) and and AFV reset to 100. 02 sensor is new, so im suspecting some sort of intermittent fuel delivery issue. Any thoughts guys. I was wondering if it can possible be the fuel pump relay? And would it be worthwhile to set my AFT even hire than 100% Thanks | ||
| Mrsandman |
Sorry I meant AFV! The other thing i found interesting is that as per the manuel, my BAS sensor is supposed to operate on no more than .6 Volts. Mine is reading between .61 and .63 Volts. I do wonder if this has anything to do with my bike not running properly.  | ||
| Oldog |
Confirm that the mixture is not the problem before chasing other things when testing one thing at a time the temp never exceeds 80C? very strange what do the plugs look like the issue on the surface sounds like a fuel issue 80 is an odd steady state AFV, do you live at high altitude? | ||
| Sparky |
Per BAS info, normal range is 0.6 to 1.1V. Yours is 0.61 to 0.63 which is in the normal range. So that is not a problem. | ||
| Mrsandman |
Ok so the temp does get to about 160-170C. I saw that today, the plugs are brand new, o2 sensor is brand new. The AFV was set in Flagstaff Az which is just above 7,000 feet. I live in Prescott, which is just over 5,000' elevation. I did reset the AFV to 100% but im wondering if i should do more. Oh and I put on a new fuel filter as well. As Mixture doesn't seem to be an issue i'll plug it in again and take another look but idle is great and reeving it up sounds great. All my problems occur when the bike is under any sort of load. This is one of the wierdest things i've ever encountered. |
