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Buellistic
| | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2012 - 08:10 am: | 
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To easily get the front wheel off ...
It is hard enough getting the FASTENERS out when "i" do not use Locktite ... |
Wesleyb82
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2012 - 01:00 pm: |
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Front tire pull went smoothly, 15 minutes at most. Followed FSM, followed a tip to keep my foot under the tire until the axle is pulled which was helpful. Only the front tire was delivered so I had it mounted and balanced for $50. They took the wheel w/o spacers and I got it back with 4 weights (is that high?). Next time I'll try to mount it myself then balanced for $15.
Putting it back together tonight. FSM calls to lightly lube the front axle with LOCTITE ANTI-SEIZE LUBRICANT (Jramsey suggested Lubriplate) but I cannot find either locally. I did not wipe down the axle and it still has 15-year-old axle lube. What is a common lube that I can use to lube the axle?
The shop also told me that my rotor was worn out because it is loose on the carrier (and rattles at idle btw) but thats how it was new. These were honda guys and I told them it was normal.
My rear fender/plate holder assembly cracked from age and my turn signals and plate are loose and probably shaking like hell on the highway. While I had it up and apart I decided to pull the tail and I'm taking a hacksaw and file to it tonight to match spike in this post: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/314553.html?1193232783
I removed the side reflectors with a heat gun then stupidly tried to remove the remaining glue with gas but the sub-frame is a painted section so I took some of the paint off. I bought a plastic-trim spray can and I'm going to hit it after I cut/sand/drill it. If it doesn't turn out well I will buy a Banke fender eliminator for $145. |
Thylacine
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2012 - 04:19 pm: |
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Absolutely any grease will do the job. We all have favorites for our own reasons. I prefer kluberplex any time I have a choice. For this application even chain lube will accomplish the task.
(Message edited by thylacine on July 03, 2012)
(Message edited by thylacine on July 03, 2012) |
Screamer
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2012 - 08:58 am: |
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Wesleyb82,
An additional reason for coating the axle (other than ease of installation) is to prevent surface corrosion on the axle shaft which could make it very difficult to remove. As Thylacine stated - most any grease will do.
Sounds like you may have resolved your issues, but for the future - there is another method to measure rear shock adjustment. You may want to consider measuring shock stretch rather than motorcycle sag (rear susp.) - especially if you have the late Showa shock.
After the late Showa shocks were released for Shock Recall 0820, it was discovered that the rear isolators would provide inconsistent sag measurements from bike to bike (among other reasons) making the early Service Manual measurement specs unreliable.
Using the sag measurement may work once you're familiar with a suspension setting that works and you record that sag for later reference - but - later model year Tube Frame manuals used the shock stretch measurement as the recommended method for rear suspension adjustment. Usually 15.25 to 15.5" on the late Showa is a good starting point
Be certain the rear belt is loose before doing any method of rear adjustment. |
Wesleyb82
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2012 - 12:23 pm: |
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The bike has been up on stands for a few days getting new tires and having some trimming/relocating of mirrors and lights done. Before it went up the high end was still unstable (unless I have a passenger) but I'll report what changes the new tires make.
Screamer, thanks for the info. Can you elaborate on the Tube Frame shock stretch measurement? |
Screamer
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2012 - 12:52 pm: |
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Weslyb82,
Check in the Knowledge Vault area - Service Alerts Technical Bulletins. Look for bulletin B-035A for the shock adjustment procedure and bulletin B-037 for the updated shock adjustment nut tightening procedure. |
Wesleyb82
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2012 - 01:35 pm: |
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The dealer told me all recalls were addressed but my shock matches my FSM and not this bulletin. Is this a recall- should it have been changed? If so do you think I'm still eligible to have the dealer change it out for me on their dime?
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/B035A-263582.pdf
(Message edited by wesleyb82 on July 05, 2012) |
Wesleyb82
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2012 - 01:53 pm: |
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There are one or more open recalls on your vehicle:
1997 Cyclone M2
VIN: xxxxxxxxx
The following list contains the campaign number and a brief description:
Recall Notice: 0806: RCL:97 BUELL M2 BRK LINE GUIDE
Recall Notice: 0807: RCL:97&98 BUELL BRK DRIVE PIN
Recall Notice: 0808: RCL:96-98 TURN SIGNL FLSHR UNT
Recall Notice: 0810: RCL:97&98 BUELL FRNT ISO MOUNT
Recall Notice: 0813: RCL:96-99 BUELL SIDSTND SWITCH
Recall Notice: 0814: RCL:95-99 BUELL FUEL TANK RETN
Recall Notice: 0815: RCL:95-99 BUELL FUEL TANK VENT
Recall Notice: 0816: RCL:95-98 BUELL SWINGARM
Recall Notice: 0817: RCL:95-98 BUELL SHOCK EYE
We strongly urge you to take your motorcycle to your dealer to have the appropriate service performed as soon as possible. Should you choose to ride your motorcycle prior to this service, we urge you to be aware of this condition. Some product campaigns may have expired and you may have to pay for the service. Please see your local Harley-Davidson dealer for further details. |
Wesleyb82
| | Posted on Thursday, July 05, 2012 - 02:31 pm: |
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The HD dealership told me all the recalls were done before I bought the bike but they were not. HD CS says all recall parts should be in stock and I should be able to get everything I need installed for free. Local HD is checking if they can get the recall kits and are going to call me tomorrow. I'm wondering if changing the shock with #0817 will fix my handling problem.
(Message edited by wesleyb82 on July 05, 2012) |
Wesleyb82
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2012 - 01:12 pm: |
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New tires are on and the ride is the same- loose/unstable/feels like it wants to wobble above 80pmh. BTW, wheel pull was a breeze except installing the rear tire which was a little bit of a bear. Maybe if I had positioned my rear stand better it would have been easier- it was causing a little interference and scratched my rear sprocket in the process (Sh*T). I also should have thought twice about the order of operations and forgot the put the tab on the rear caliper inside the swing arm so it all had to come apart again. I also adjusted the belt to 1" flex but know I've read here that loose is good- I just need to find that magic number.
Checked in with dealership and they said maybe this week they will try to track down the recall parts "if they are even still available" which they kept stressing. I looked at the remaining buells (lightning and m2) and they both have the original shock. Doesn't the dealership get reimbursed for installing recalls? Why wouldn't they do the recalls in the off season to keep the guys working?? I just hope I can get it done without a fight so I can get a good running bike which is what I thought I was buying when I signed on the dotted line.
Does anyone think that changing the original shock/recall will get this bike running solid again? I was also thinking about finding a t-tree stand and checking the front end with a fish scale - maybe I am low on fork oil? Idk, any guidance is much appreciated and I thank everyone that has chimed in so far. |
Wesleyb82
| | Posted on Monday, July 09, 2012 - 08:48 pm: |
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Today I jumped on the bike and noticed the front end seemed uneven\weird. I look down and the left fork is leaking- see photo that shows leakage and another that shows travel which seems excessive? The right side is dry.
Is this amount of leakage excessive? Could a recent change in preload cause this? Is the bike dangerous to ride? Any help would be appreciated I'm lost.
Also added a photo of the current state of the bike w/ chopped fender, no mirrors or rear signals. Still deciding where the new mirrors and lights are going.
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Jim2
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - 12:06 am: |
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Is this amount of leakage excessive?
Yes, any leakage from the forks is excessive.
Could a recent change in preload cause this?
Change in preload doesn't cause leaks, bad seals cause leaks. The change in preload may have shown you the bad seals a little sooner.
Is the bike dangerous to ride? Any help would be appreciated I'm lost.
Yes, it was dangerous to ride when you first posted about the instability at hight speeds.
I'm pretty sure you've finally found the reason for the instability. You have an imbalance of forces in the front forks. You need a front fork re-build.
This was one of the items mentioned early in the thread:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=47623&post=2234128#POST2234128}
Sorry to see this happen but glad you've found the problem. |
Wesleyb82
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 - 03:05 pm: |
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Fork seals and dust seals arrived from Am Sportbike last night and everything is installed and I'm back on the road today. I got it up to 90 and am pretty confident that my problems have been solved. Im going to air it out again tonight after I triple check all the bolts and push it over 100. My confidence in the seat is slowly coming back and its a good feeling. Thanks to everyone that advised me so far.
INSTALLATION OBSERVATIONS The difference in fluid between the forks was about 1 oz (more fluid in the leaking fork
), I was short about 2 oz in one 3 oz in the other, the inside of the seals had white residue built up and the fluid was somewhat dark and there was small black sediment left in the bottom of the drain cups. I used a plastic bag and grease to avoid damaging the seals over the slider retainer groove (bag ripped slightly on first seal) and made a PVC driver. In short, I took a 3, 2 diameter PVC pipe, cut one end 6 times like a pizza 3 deep with a hacksaw then made a couple cuts 1/8th apart and removed the material within the 1/8th in cuts so I could grip the end and reduce the diameter since 43mm is 1.7. Last I cut two of the slits that were about ½ apart lower to 4 and hacked off the end of the pipe 4 from the end then filed and sanded all inside edges. This left me with a 4 high C-shaped semi-circle with comb like fingers at the bottom. It slipped over the slider and once I gripped the bottom it I could reduce the diameter to fit. I then used the remaining 2.5 section as a slide hammer to drive the seals. When I had both reassembled I leaned on them with my body weight and the one seemed very spongy and would not rebound like the other. I thought I had cleaned enough of the grease off but once I dissembled it and thoroughly cleaned the grease off it rebounded smoothly.
QUESTIONS There are a couple things I noticed during reassembly that I hope I can get some feedback on. First, I read the FSM 10 times and cannot understand something- it calls to mount the top of the tube flush with the top of the upper tree clamp but that is not how it was setup when I got it (mounted 1/2" above upper tree). Additionally, when I rest the bottom of the upper tree on the retainer ring around the upper slider the slider sticks out about ½ in or so which is how it was when I got it so I went with that. Second, the clutch cable is getting pinched when the bars are turned full bore to the left and there is already wear on the cable (photos attached).
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Jim2
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - 02:10 am: |
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Here is a picture of mine for comparison. It rests snug between the lower triple clamp and the frame. 33500 miles and no appreciable wear.
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Wesleyb82
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 12:42 pm: |
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After changing the fork oil and seals the stability problems are gone. I set my suspension to factory and made some adjustments while on the twisties and also rough highways around here yesterday and everything feels pretty damn good. Thanks all.
I have noticed the front end seems to wander like a swimming fish above 80. At night my headlight moves slightly back and forth in my lane- to the left, right then left within 1 second. This is the first bike I've rode above 80 that didn't have a steering damper so my first thought is this is normal. Can anyone confirm? I did check my head bearings with a fish scale when I had the front end up and the scale showed 5lbs of resistance which is within spec as per FSM (3.5-5.5 I think).
I just bought a damper off am torque on ebay (they claim its their last m2 clamp) but I'm just thinking now I checked the rear wheel alignment by measuring the ends of the adjuster bolt lengths with a caliper but I think the FSM calls to check the gap in the swingarm between the block and edge. I might give that a closer look tonight.
Is a little movement normal? Thoughts or suggestions?
(Message edited by wesleyb82 on July 20, 2012) |
Jayvee
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 06:18 pm: |
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Not normal. I accidently let my M2 creep into the 90s mph almost every time I go to work. Doesn't wander, weave, bobble, or swim. I got my bike used, came with a Storz damper, I took it off a long time ago. Didn't notice anything untoward at speed, in town the steering got much lighter.
Also the clutch cable routing above isn't per the service manual, best I remember it goes up the other side of the steering stem. |
Buellistic
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2012 - 07:34 pm: |
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REMEMBER THIS: If you get a DEATH GRIP on your handlebars you can induce you own speed wobble into your perfectly good motorcycle !!! |
Wesleyb82
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - 01:41 pm: |
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I installed the steering damper from American Torque on Ebay last night. Came with a photo (one photo) as instructions, nothing written, I think I installed it correctly... photo attached. I mounted it where the bars can travel in both directions w/o binding then tightened everything down. Didn't wrap the frame to protect it which I regret. I aired it out and it runs true at high speed (maxed at 115) but I'm really only concerned with 80-95mph. There is a threaded ring that holds the cup on the ball on the fork end of the damper. I didnt even notice that it was loose or that it needed to be tightened during installation and the cup slipped off the ball mid-ride and the damper was flopping around held on by the rear frame mount. How they could not include some written instruction or guidance blows my mind...
Before the damper was installed, the bike was wandering slightly starting at around 80mph, much less than before the fork oil change (or before suspension adjustments and tire pressure changes) but after all these wobble problems the smallest movement is freaking me out a little. I have been on several bikes above 100mph and have never had this feeling before. Also btw, although I am unsettled by this motion I do not death grip the bars.
The damper has removed high end movement but totally destroyed low speed steering even on the lowest damper setting. I can't seem to be able to steer with one hand as the bike leans instead of turns when I make small steering inputs/adjustments which is super annoying. I don't know if I will get used to this but so far it is driving me crazy in traffic. I have slapped a $200 bandaid on this problem and it has come with a great loose, this is not the solution to my problem.
I have re-read all suggestions in this thread and only see rear isolator (and maybe rechecking sag after fork oil change) as per Jims suggestion and front isolator and rear shock as per outstanding recalls as other things to check. Is it possible the isolators are dry-rotten from sitting for 15 years? Bike still only has 3k miles...
My other thought is the rear axle alignment. I have aligned it as per FSM (measure nut edge to swingarm end (nut was parallel)) but then when I measure the distance from the edge of the rear slider (pictured) and the swingarm end there is a ~.25" difference from the other side. It just seems odd since the distance from the slider edge and nut seem to be the same on both sides.
Last, I came across a guy locally that had a lightning purchased new from the same dealership years ago and w/o asking told me the only problem he had with it was a high speed light front end! How could we both have the same issue but no one on this board (except for 1 thread I found on another forum) have the same problem??? .....
I'm a little frustrated but I'm going to keep at it. I appreciate everyone here this is an awesome resource and everyone here has obviously taken a lot of time sending suggestions so thank you very much.
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Wesleyb82
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - 12:36 pm: |
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After reading another thread I had the C-clamp that holds the piston too tight which was restricting the movement of the rod. After I just snugged it up and added a quarter turn it has toned down the damping a lot making low speed turning easier. I'm carrying tools in case things loosen on me.
I was also wondering if my steering resistance is correct (5lbs pull) does that mean my t-tree setup, steering bearing preload, etc are setup correctly?
I don't know what to check next. Damper has ironed it out but that's not a fix and I would rather spend the $200 on an intake. |
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