| Author | Message | ||
     Odbuffalo |
I just bought a 95 S2 with 8500 miles, gentle miles. I took it to the dealer to have the the forks seals replaced, they quoted me $200-225 and I asked them to look it over. The previous owner had the 10k service done 200 miles ago but that was 6 years ago and new tires. All done at the dealer (not the same one). Here's what they are telling me: Can't find the fork seals. Should it need bushings already too? It's been on the stand for 2 weeks. Rear wheel alignment-fender is slightly rubbing-I would think its the fender. Not the wheel Rebuild carb-$150 10k service-$350-400 Brake service-$150 Rear brake switch-$75 And some other picky things I think they are trying make a little extra coin on. A couple dim signals, throttle cable routed wrong...most this stuff I could do myself I just didn't want to mess with the forks. I think I'll just get the fork seals done and go from there. | ||
| Ustorque |
Get the shop manual and save yourself a lot of coin! The plus will be that you will also learn more about your new bike, the buell is a very user servicable bike. | ||
| Imaposer2 |
I don't doubt that it could need all those things. Well, mostly anyway... I wouldn't think the fork bushing would be worn with on 8500 miles on the bike though. Fork seals... Are they looking for official Buell labeled parts, or just for the correct seals for your forks? Most likely for Buell parts, so you may have to help out on the parts search if you want this done in a timely manner. Shouldn't be difficult to find seals for those forks once you get outside H-D/Buell parts distribution. Rear wheel alignment? That's simple enough to measure and adjust as necessary. If the bike's been sitting up that long the carb very likely does need some attention. If the bikes been sitting for 6 years then the brake fluid definitely needs to be flushed and replaced. The brake light switch? Well, does it work or not? If not, then yeah, it needs to be replaced. But make sure it's the switch and not just a bad connection somewhere in the circuit, or even just a bulb filament burned out. I have no idea what's involved in the 10K service specifically. But, if you can do you own maintenance then I'd just get the fork work done and do the rest myself. This is the exact reason I do all my own service work on my bikes. Good luck. | ||
| Buellistic |
USTorque is "RIGHT" !!! Bought the FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL and PARTS BOOK for my 1997 S3T doing my own work ... Have saved THOUSANDS in the 15 years that "i" have owned my BUELL ... | ||
| Bikerrides |
After getting a check engine light, I took my S3 to HD and was charged 1 1/2 hrs labor at $85/hr to read the codes and install a new O2 sensor ($19), which I supplied; HD's part was $50. Changing that sensor is essentially the same as changing a spark plug. I swore then that that would be the last time HD would work on my bike; so far, I've been able to avoid it. When I told this story to a friend recently, he told me that HD stands for "Hundred Dollars." Do the work yourself, learn about your bike, and save a bundle!  | ||
| Odbuffalo |
Thanks guys. One reason I took it to them is because I already have a old Ironhead project going and didn't want another one, I just wanted to ride. Does anyone have a good source for seals? Should it need bushings already? Carb seemed okay, just had to choke it a lot to warm up. | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Can't say about the seals. Wouldn't think bushings would be an issue unless something strange is going on with the forks. If the dealer says so then I'd be wanting an explanation as to why. If they didn't, and you're just asking to be asking, then I'd say don't worry with the bushings unless you have reason to suspect otherwise. If the bike idles and runs ok when warm then the carb is probably ok. Is it completely stock, or has it been re-jetted/tampered with? If stock, then it would probably help the cold starting and idling a bit to drill out the air screw plug and do a little fine tuning of the pilot circuit. If the bike's been sitting for that long though it still might be a good idea to pop the float bowl off and check for gunk and clean as needed. Short of doing I'd at least want to run some seafoam or similar through it. (Message edited by Imaposer2 on June 21, 2012) | ||
| Buellistic |
Fork Seals not leaking - you do not have a problem !!! CARBURETOR - STP Gas Treatment or SeaFoam Gas treatment every 5K miles ... If you do not ride your bike every day, turn the gas off and run the carb. dry !!! The only thing you will ever have to do to CARB. is change the INTAKE SEALS ... Brakes - change the master cylinder fluid once a year ... When your PADS get down to 1/16 inch replace the pads(rotors do not have to be turned which also applies to cars) ... If the BRAKE light comes on that means the switch and bulb are OK !!! These 5K, 10K, and 15K SERVICE's are just easy money for the "STEALERSHIPS" !!! These Harley-Davidson BUELL Service Centers will BUELLschitte if you let them !!! Rear Wheel Alignment - does it wobble or go down the road side ways ??? In the 15 years and 111611.2 miles tha "i" have owned my 1997 S3T it has been in the Dealership SERVICE AREA two times, when "i" bought it and in 1998 when "i" bounced off a car !!! | ||
| Dannybuell |
^^All of the above^^ gpsuspension.com and racetech.com Years ago I replaced my S1's goldvalve with gpsuspension's valving. I have never looked back. They service a lot of suspensions from all over the country. gpsuspension.com uses higher grade alloy's in making their internals, apparently they cut cleaner in the CNC machining process. | ||
| Odbuffalo |
Thanks again. The forks where leaking really bad. The right one anyways so I thought I'd have them do both. Seemed like a bigger project than I wanted. I feel I can handle the rest. The bike runs and rides great. Just needs a little updating tlc, I bought it from the original female owner and I'm sure it was never abused. | ||
| Imaposer2 |
I can't say about the Buell/HD "scheduled services" specifically, but when looking at the actual breakdown of most "scheduled services" and comparing what is actually done, to the cost, it is often as Buellistic says, an easy way for the dealership's service dept. to make money. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. If dealers can't make money they won't stay open or they'll just have to make up the difference in parts sales, or new bike sales. Besides, the mechanics have to feed their kids somehow. And I'm sure it's mutually beneficial for most bike owners. I mean, let's face it. Most bike owners don't want to touch their bikes other than to polish or ride them, or don't know how, and those guys really do need someone to check over their bike on occasion. They keep ridin' and polishin', the dealer makes a profit, the mechanics kid gets fat and everybody's happy. But, for those of us that don't mind, or aren't scared to do a little work on our own bikes, it really isn't a very good deal. If the dealer (this also applies to car dealers) gives you a list of items done as part of these "services", just really look it over and think about it. I have and I usually choose to pick the individual items I want done. A lot of dealers make up their own "lists" and many of these items can be for things that the manufacturer doesn't have specified as needing to be done nearly as often. Then a lot of times the majority of things are little, almost meaningless services like "check and adjust tire pressure", or "inspect tire wear" or "inspect for you name it". An awful lot of it is for things that a mechanically minded owner can do in 15 minutes or less just walking around his vehicle, but when it's rattle off by a service writer or printed out on a sheet, it can sound like they're actually doing a lot. I think they do this at a lot of car dealerships because of the number of women that just look at the long list and think, "well, I only needed my oil changed but if they do ALL that for $395, then I guess I better take them up on it". Or they get the ones that are afraid to second guess what "someone that knows these things" tells them they should be doing to keep their vehicle on the road. And yeah, I picked on women because they really are often viewed by dealerships as being less knowledgeable and easier "pickins". But, men often fall for the same tactics because they don't know or even simply because they aren't paying attention. I always ask these questions when a dealer quotes me a price for a particular "Service". I also look at the owner's manual for the manufacturer recommended service intervals of various things. And if I find a discrepancy, I'll ask what it's all about. Caught quite a few of them with that "deer in a headlight" look in their eyes too, when they didn't have an answer. The worse case of this was with a Ducati dealership years ago. I took care of everything on that bike except the valve adjustment. I didn't feel comfortable with the "black magic of desmo valve adjustment" back then, and I didn't have a big supply of shims and what-not. So, I decided to let a dealer take care of adjusting the valves and I'd do everything else myself. So, I take my bike in and the guy automatically tries to write me up for a "XXXX mile service" and I explain that all I wanted was the valves adjusted. Yadda, yadda, yadda. So, when I go back to get the bike a different guy was there. There was some confusion about my service ticket with him because he automatically tried to charge me for the full "XXXX mile service". I explained what was actually done and he went to double check. When he came back he looked pissed and said, "Ok, you're right, but don't bring it back and expect us to do it this way again".  He knew what I knew, that the "XXXX service was mostly crap, but that they could charge a WHOLE LOT more than just adjusting the valves even though adjusting the valves was the only meaningful thing that really needed to be done. Needless to say, I never went back to that dealership for anything again. But, with that said, not all dealerships operate that way. After my experience with that Ducati dealer, I found another, and while farther away, they were VERY cool... Old time shop with beer in a coke machine in the shop. First time I went in the owner led me back into the garage area as we talked. He walked over to the old "Coke Machine" opened it and pulled out a beer, offering it to me.  They talked shop and just treated me like family and never made me feel like they were trying to pull anything over on me. They were straight, told me what they thought and earned my trust. So, I don't automatically scream "STEALERSHIP" every time, but I do realize that while it's a hobby and passion to me, it is a business to them. And people go into business to make money, if they want to stay "in business" very long. So, don't just blindly trust what a dealer service rep tells you. He's just doing his job and his job is to make his boss money. | ||
| Fahren |
Al Lighton: American Sport Bike for fork seals, bushings, whatever you need. | ||
| Chauly |
"But, with that said, not all dealerships operate that way. After my experience with that Ducati dealer, I found another, and while farther away, they were VERY cool... Old time shop with beer in a coke machine in the shop. First time I went in the owner led me back into the garage area as we talked. He walked over to the old "Coke Machine" opened it and pulled out a beer, offering it to me. They talked shop and just treated me like family and never made me feel like they were trying to pull anything over on me. They were straight, told me what they thought and earned my trust. " John Hoffman, very cool dude for sure. His moving to the Phillipines was a great loss for GA, but I hope he's happy... :-) | ||
| Imaposer2 |
HA! Yes! I can't believe you got that just from my description. John was a cool dude and an excellent guy to have on your side back in the day. I was dealing with John back when Michael was still at UGA while working for John in the shop and before Michael took over when John moved to the Pilippines. I dealt with them for a number of years and was always pleased with the level of service. Not only did they have an old coke machine full of beer in the shop, and not only were customers allowed in the shop area, but their tire changing machine was much like the one I now have in my own garage at home, an old steel car rim mounted on a base, and a couple of tire irons. In fact, Michael was the one that gave me the confidence to change my own street bike tires without screwing up the rims. I was sorry to see John go, but I can't say that I blame him. A gruff, scruffy older dude, single, not exactly pretty... I'd think the Philippines might be a fun place to retire to. And Michael always treated me good as well. Even after he built the business and moved the shop to Atlanta and it changed into a "normal" Ducati dealership, and after years of not seeing Michael, he still remembered me, called me by name and wanted to chat when I ran into him at the ATL M/C show. And I never had any trouble with them. In fact, because of the way they treated me I ended up letting them do more of my service work than just the valves. When it needed valves, I'd have them go ahead and do other things while it was there. But, they always charged fair rates for each separate item and never acted as though they had to do a special designated "Service" When Michael did the valves, if they didn't need anything he'd tell me so and didn't charge for anything other than a check. He also told me that I could extend my valve adjustment interval, based on his experience with my bike, after he'd been dealing with it for a while and had gotten to know my bike and how I rode it. They were really good people to deal with. I guess my point is that while the average dealer may not be that great, and while people like John and Michael are rare in today's world, they do exist. Because of this fact I don't like to make blanket statements about dealerships in general or about all dealership mechanics don't know anything. I do miss those days, but it is a fond memory of an interesting part of my motorcycling history. It was a cool experience hanging out at John's old place in Athens. | ||
| Pash |
Fork seals are 40mm items. Pretty rare, in the UK even the WP importer cannot supply them, so a Buell only part. And not cheap... http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/6156.html | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I 97% agree with the above statements about the 10,000 mile services. The only exception is if your bike is still under warranty, you have DOCUMENTED service with logged miles at each instance. I needed this when my X1 ate second gear near the end of the extended warranty period. The company made a stink about miles on the bike, "neglect", "abuse" All the dealership and I had to do was point to the service history and all was well. $720 tranny job for a $50 deductible. | ||
| Fahren |
Pash, if the Teflon is worn off the bushings, there's even more hurt to the wallet - worse than the seals! | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Yeah, but that didn't make sense to me when i read it. I mean bronze is used as material for making bushings because it's a bearing material. In fact, most bronze bushing that I'm aware of are just bare bronze. The fork sliders are hard coated and are much harder than the bushings so why would the bronze material being exposed indicate a replacement was warranted. Can someone explain this to me please? | ||
| Buellistic |
When the coating wears off, the color changes indicating time to replace ... It is a visual go/no-go gauge !!! | ||
| Steveford |
John Hoffman - he was a crabby old fart but there was a good man underneath that gruff exterior. I guess you aren't aware, he married a woman from the Phillipines and died of cancer a number of years ago. His retirement was short but I hope that he enjoyed himself. | ||
| Chauly |
RIP, John. He was probably more like how I'm turning out (as my curmudgeon training progresses!) than I realized. (Now, where to get an old Coke machine...) (Message edited by chauly on June 22, 2012) | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Yeah, John did have that gruff old dude exterior, but that was just him, and if you just ignored it and got to know him he was actually a good guy. He was actually kinda comical in his crabby old fart act... And no, I didn't know exactly what ever happened to him once he started spending so much time overseas. I just knew that he eventually moved to the Philippines, but I didn't know if he had a specific woman or just a bevy of "housekeepers". I hate to hear of his passing but I hope he did live it up and enjoy life before becoming ill. I believe I'll drink a beer in his honor as I walk out into the garage and lift the sheet off my 900SS... Godspeed John and may other Italian bike aficionados remember him for what he was to so many, the only man they trusted with their baby... |
