| Author | Message | ||
     Ustorque |
So tonight i'll be cracking into the rocker box gaskets on my 2000 S3. If anyone wants to share any secrets, tips, tricks or info that may not be in the FSM and may come in handy please feel free to throw it out. I'll get this out of the way now, I know I should do the XB conversion, thats not in the cards right now, next time. Thanks in advance. | ||
| Buellistic |
Make your self some SPECIAL TOOLS so that you can correctly "TORQUE" the ROCKER ARM COVER fasteners ... Use copper compound torque'ing compound, putting it not only on the threads "BUT" any where there is metel to metal contact(ie: heads of the fasteners) ... There is no need to put any gasket goop on these gaskets as correctly torque'ing the covers is the secret ... The rubberized gaskets if found to be good(usually are) can be put in the freezer for a couple of hours and reused ... The copper gasket that goes between the head and rocker arm cover can be reused ... (Message edited by buellistic on June 06, 2012) | ||
| Reepicheep |
When it says disconnect your battery, really do it. DAMHIK.  | ||
| Essmjay |
You will need to cut down an allen wrench for the right rear top cover bolt. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Don't forget cold beverages. Boxes aren't difficult, but can be stubborn. You'll likely end up taking a "breather" now and then through the process | ||
| Ustorque |
When it says disconnect your battery, really do it. DAMHIK. Fun isn't it! ha ha ha You'll likely end up taking a "breather" now and then through the process I kinda figured as much, tonight im just gonna do the teardown. Not to mention I have 4 daughters that like to help, which in kid terms means any job that should take a couple of hours takes a week. | ||
| Akbuell |
Other than the usual stuff about putting the bike up so you can turn the engine over by hand, ect, only one caution, not mentioned in the book. At initial start-up after reassembly, don't be upset if you get really big noise out of the engine. The lifters can 'bleed down' sometimes, resulting in excess clearance. A sub 2k RPM cruise of the neighborhood should solve the problem. | ||
| Jhuppdog |
+1 on what Akbuell said. It scared the crap out of me when I fired the bike up for the first time. It sounded like I had left some sockets and wrenches inside the motor. After about ten minutes of idling it slowly went away. | ||
| Screamer |
I wouldn't try to re-use the "head-to-lower tray' gaskets. The early paper ones can't be re-used and considering the low cost of new ones and the pain it is to replace them again - it's not worth it. When you buy new ones be sure to get the latest rubberized metal type - 16800-84A. | ||
| Ustorque |
So a few days behind schedule, but i picked up my gasket kit today. I got the 17036-91A kit. I'm guessing the 4 tall gaskets are for XB applications? While searching BAdWeb today I ran across something good Al from American Sportbike had put out a while back. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/545648.html?1274315517 | ||
| Jramsey |
"I got the 17036-91A kit. I'm guessing the 4 tall gaskets are for XB applications?" Yep, they make you buy a fit all gasket set, the head to inner/lower rocker cover(coated steel gasket) is the same. Here's a pic, on the left are XB, the right tuber/Xl 91-02,cut off hex wrench in the middle.  | ||
| Alfau |
Measure with a micrometer mark with a Crayon then cut with an axe. | ||
| Ducxl |
I can recall the FSM calling for a torque adapter to properly torque that one bolt unaccessable straightaway.Isn't there ONE rocker bolt obstructed by a framerail? A 1/2" Snap-On torque adapter is what "i" used.I also keep torque adapters for head bolts on Ducs | ||
| Screamer |
The gaskets on the left are for later model Sportsters, they're called "p.i.p." (press in place). Use the ones on the right. | ||
| Fahren |
You can use the little stub of the allen wrench you cut off: insert it into the inaccessible bolt head, set the open end of a combination wrench on it, then set your torque wrench at 90 degrees to that wrench, using a hex (allen) socket in your torque wrench to engage the box end of the combination wrench. Torque to spec. | ||
| Ducxl |
^^^^^^Error in torque that needs to be corrected. THe torque adapter adds 2" in length to the torque wrench.I have the calculations to adjust to get proper torque value. | ||
| Fahren |
Ducx1, are you referring to an extender adaptor that lengthens the arm of the torque wrench? If you torque at 90 degrees, then no adjustments need be made to the torque value. | ||
| Knwyman |
I wouldn't get too worked up about the torque specs on the cover allen bolts. Just don't over do it or you'll pull the threads from the aluminum. | ||
| Buellistic |
"NOW" that is exactly why "i" do not let technicians touch my bike !!! | ||
| Knwyman |
Sorry LaFayette, those 4 cover bolts are nothing to get worried about unless they are severely overtorqued or undertorqued. But I agree -a factory trained "technician" is exactly who you need to be worried about. They have a piece of paper that says they're qualified whereas a "mechanic" or someone who has had a wrench in their hand for their entire life knows from experience about how much force to use on a cover bolt such as that. Please note we are talking about the cover bolts here, not one holding the rocker assemblies in place or something that needs a specific pattern for proper sealing. | ||
| Ducxl |
I don't believe that for a second.It's the length of the LEVER.I've used and have multiple Snap-on torque "instruments" for years.THe "just about right" has NEVER satisfied me.I'm a CNC machinist of over 25 years and use torque wrenches all the time on my CNC machines. I spent a LOT of time learning torque adapters when i first used one. I covered the calculation with Ward Ring of MTTI(Motor-Ring Technical Training Institute) and another mechanical engineer at length.The 90 degrees isn't right. But i'm open to dialogue. It's ALL about the length of the lever. Edit: HEY,i don't want to come across as rude.I studied torque wrenches/adapters and thought i understood them.And sniping degreed technicians i think is uncalled for (Message edited by ducxl on June 10, 2012) | ||
| Ducxl |
 THe next time a Doctor/w his silly piece of paper tells me my pain in my head is a cancerous tumor i'll tell him to forget about it and i'll prescribe myself some aspirin.Technicians ARE professionals who are just not allotted enough time to do the job that takes me 10x longer.No profit in 10x longer,but still a more thourough job indeed | ||
| Knwyman |
You're not really going to compare a medical doctor to a harley tech, are you? We are talking about a rocker cover here, right? Unfortunately, I've had encounters with some of these supposed "technicians" at Harley dealerships. Full blown MMI guys. Plaques on the wall & all. One of the last was how I was working on the fuel injection on my 85 K100RS. The "technician's" eyes got all wide with fear "Whoa, that's complicated! We didn't learn about anything on BMW's at MMI" or something to that affect. (I think they have manufacturer's tracts at those schools) That is pathetic. But hey, maybe he has that torque adapter you need. And back to the K100 -I had the crankcase completely apart at one point which was reassembled with a torque wrench. Just never saw a need for one on those four rocker cover bolts. There is an interesting book loosely related to this topic: Shop Class as Soulcraft by Matthew B Crawford (I think)It's a good read -mostly about the history of work & education. One of the points it makes is with increased specialization & specific instruction, the ability to make generalizations is being lost along with the ability to think critically. | ||
| Buellistic |
"AND" not many know how to convert INCH POUNDS to FOOT POUNDS !!! | ||
| Jramsey |
To convert inch lbs. to ft. lbs. divide the inches by 12. To convert ft. lbs. to inch lbs. multiply by 12. To convert Newton-meters to ft.lbs multiply by 0.7375. To convert ft. lbs. to Newton-meters, multiply by 1.3558. (Message edited by Jramsey on June 10, 2012) | ||
| Ustorque |
I just decided to super glue it all back together. | ||
| Jramsey |
"I just decided to super glue it all back together."  | ||
| Ustorque |
So I got the rear rocker box done and I gotta say, I really thought the worst part was going to be the bolt under the frame on the rear box. I had no idea how bad the front was, At this point id say the rear was the easier of the 2. I should be able to finish up tomorrow, so far so good. | ||
| Akbuell |
Re torque wrenches, Ducxl is technically correct. However, the length of my torque wrench, from the center of the grip to the center of the attach point is 12.5in. With a 1" crows foot wrench at 90deg, the effective length changes to 12.5625in. A difference of .0625in, or 1/16in, if you live in Rio Linda, LOL. Not really enough to make a difference, IMHO. If the attachment is directly in line with the wrench, either straight away from or toward the handle, the torque value DOES change. From my Jeppesen Standard Aviation Maintenance Handbook: T X L ______________ = Y L (+/-) E T= Torque L= Length of wrench (Center of handle to adapter) E= Length of adapter, ie crows foot Y= Unknown So, if the torque is known (say 50 ft/lbs) and the crows foot is in line, pointing away from the handle, Y will be the torque applied, and will be a greater number than T. If the crows foot is toward the handle, Y will be smaller than T. If Y is the torque you wish to apply, then T becomes the unknown. Hope this helps, and makes sense. Dave (Message edited by Akbuell on June 12, 2012) | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Yep, Akbuell has it right. It's the effective length that matters, not the shape of the lever arm. The center to center measurement is the length of the lever arm and for most practical purposes having the extension set at 90* is close enough. In fact, the coefficient of friction of the components will have a bigger difference and I see very little discussion on that issue. Most standard torque specs are calculated based on clean, dry metals, and adding anything that alters the friction of the components will have a far greater effect than a minute difference in lever arm length. In my industry we have a bolting procedure that spells out the differences between various lubricants, such as machine oil vs. dry vs. several specific brands and types of anti-seize. So, if you really want to get nit-picky you really need to know the specific friction coefficient of anything (anti-seize, oil, loctite, etc.) applied to the threads or bolt face areas. And lets not forget that each time a bolted connection is loosened and retorqued a certain amount of deformation occurs. This deformation will alter the tensile strength of the components. Again, in my industry, our bolted connection procedure dictates new studs and nuts be used each time for critical connections governed by the procedure itself. A great deal of research and calculations went into the development of our procedure. Does any of this apply to rocker box bolts? I guess that depends on if you work for the local H-D dealer, NASA, do your own maintenance, or just like to be overly anal about the small stuff...   |
