| Author | Message | ||
     Vecchio_lupo |
Well Boys, I had a minor get off last fall and elected to repair my 1999 S3T. I purchased new forks, new front wheel and began to tackle the bent shifter input shaft. To do that I of course needed to remove the primary chain and clutch basket etc..etc.. This is my first Buell/H-D product but I had a service manual and some experience. I don't know if I was just tired, or stupid, or both, but it seemed that an electric impact gun would be the tool for removing the very large nuts holding the pieces in place. The engine crank nut came off without a hitch, things are great. I consulted the book and missed the part about the transmission side having "left hand threads (Clockwise to loosen)" my heart sank. I was so mad at myself I wasn't even angry, just disheartened. So my question to the Buell community, am I screwed? Is the semi repaired S3 just a parts doner now, or is there a procedure? the nut is still on the mainshaft and I can turn it by hand both directions with very little resistance, I fear I sheared the splines or spun or broke something beyond my understanding. Based on the limited info I supplied, is there a way out or am I the newest parts guy? | ||
| Buellistic |
Just replace the damaged parts !!! IMPACT WRENCHES are one of the most DANGEROUS tools in the world !!! On cars they have broken more lug nut studs and split more lug nut holes in steel rims(not to mention alloy rims) than you can imagine !!! Do not want to even talk about motorcycles !!! | ||
| Blks1l |
Maybe you got lucky and just stripped the nut, can you get to it to cut it off? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Hard to imagine an electric impact gun could have stripped those splines. I wouldn't think it would be strong enough. You have to get that nut off to know how bad it is. If it was a stripped nut, it seems like it would just come off, so there must be thread damage on the crank. I've been nursing the kids KX-60 along, and it has the same problem. A previous owner mangled the crank threads. I used a file to chase the threads on the crank, got a fresh new nut, put on lock-tite red, and torqued it to the absolute bottom end of the recommended torque range. It's held... but that's a 15 HP dirt bike. This is a much harder problem. So this approach probably won't work for you, but it's worth a try. My thinking with the KX-60 was a progressively more invasive strategy. First, file the threads and get a new nut. If that fails, re-tap the end of the crank the next size down, put on a new nut, and see if that holds. No idea how hard it is to get a left hand tap of the right size though. If that doesn't work, on the KX-60, I would just split the cases and replace the crank. Easy on that bike. Were it an old S3T, and I believed the crank was toast anyway, I would be tempted to just check the stator carefully, then (after first looking around to make sure nobody is looking) weld the stator onto the crank. Then button it up, and see if it holds. If I do need to get it off again, whip out the angle grinder. Might not work though, that's a LOT of torque in these motors. | ||
| Vecchio_lupo |
I forgot to mention, when I turn the nut, the shaft turns with it, so something has given up on the inside. I'll snap a photo tonight and post so we can be clear. I agree, that stupid impact gun is going back to Lowes tonight, a little after the fact though. I am not willing to dive too deep on this project, I'll continue to investigate but I am not motivated. I believe that I could raise about 2k from the sale of the cool stuff like Race exhaust system (full) race ECM, Corbin saddle, all good body work and forcewinder intake along with some other nice semi trick bits. I'd sell the whole thing for 1500 if I don't have to disassemble. That is just defeatist talk, lets work on solving the problem first and resort to a fire sale last. | ||
| Hootowl |
You might also want to inspect your rotor magnets. An impact gun can rattle them off. I think the rotor basket has something to that effect stamped on it. | ||
| Jramsey |
Did you remove the clutch plates before trying to loosen the nut? If so then the hub/mainshaft will turn inside the basket. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Huh? Are the spark plugs out? Does it spin freely, or just pump the pistons up and down? Could be you just stripped the splines in the the stator bell / front primary drive sprocket assembly, which would be GREAT news for you. Probably under $100 for a good used part. Your options to get that nut off now are more limited. Lock the crank from the cam side? Stuff a rope down a spark plug hole? Then hit it with an impact wrench, but remember it's a left hand thread.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
(and for the record, if you were in Ohio, I would have just told you it's hopeless and been at your doorstep with $1500 cash and a trailer about 90 seconds later.  ) | ||
| Buellistic |
IMPACT WRENCH's "KILL ROTOR MAGNETS" !!! | ||
| Chauly |
So does welding... | ||
| Vecchio_lupo |
Thank you, they say education is expensive, and I have just payed for a semester. I realize the damage I (may) have done. Just to be clear, the nut that turns is the nut/shaft in the clutch basket, not the crank. I forgot to mention all the NOS hard bags, bag liners and brackets with it. I will be at Mid Ohio and could deliver there for anybody. Thank you for all the brainstorming, in a weird way it makes me feel better about my dumbness. | ||
| Hootowl |
Don't get too discouraged. Get that sucker apart first, and then make your decision. They're just sportster parts. Massive parts market. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Sounds like what happened to my old 1979 XLH. Left half-shaft got loose from the flywheel. I found that an entire bottom end with connecting rods cost the same as having my original rebuilt. (roughly) Don't lose hope. If you get your engine out, any shop should be able to rebuild it. Good luck. | ||
| Akbuell |
Clutch basket= you are golden, so to speak. The transmission shaft and nut are most likely Sportster crossovers, so they will be relatively inexpensive, and available, new and/or used. While cutting off or removing the nut could be a chore, the trap door transmission makes the rest relatively painless ..... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Just something with the clutch then... that's good news also. I still don't see how an electric impact wrench could have enough strength to screw up *anything* in that primary. They just aren't that strong. I doubt there is anything major wrong. Heck, it's an S3, so even if you destroyed half the transmission its easy to pop out and rebuild without splitting the cases or pulling the motor. Like I said, if you were in Ohio, I'd be at your doorstep with cash in hand yesterday.  | ||
| Pash |
Get the photos up Joseph, I am sure it is no big deal... | ||
| Fasted |
i am available in bloomington for assistance | ||
| Ratbuell |
Um...am I the only one noting no mention of a primary locking tool? If he has the stator off (and the manual specifically says NOT to use impact on the stator nut because the magnets are just glued in place and can break loose), and did not use a locking tool to keep the entire shebang from spinning while he loosens the transmission nut...of COURSE it's going to spin. Been a while since I took out a trans, but IIRC you use the locking tool to keep the entire primary in place while you loosen BOTH nuts. Then, remove the tool. Then, remove the primary parts. Installation is the reverse. | ||
| Hootowl |
Since he said he thinks he broke something with the impact tool when he went lefty-tighty on the clutch nut, I guess I assumed he still had had the sprockets locked. Otherwise, as you noted, it would have just spun. | ||
| Ratbuell |
He's saying when he grabs the nut, it just spins. The shaft spins with the nut. Sounds to me like his electric impact didn't break anything, it just...spun because it wasn't locked. And FWIW, I have a 300 lb-ft 18V Dewalt 1/2" impact in the garage. Battery powered. Rotate the tires on my Ram 2500 with it in addition to...well...just about anything else. "Electric impact" doesn't mean "half-assed torque" anymore. | ||
| Vecchio_lupo |
OK Boys here is the latest. First let me put to rest some questions raised here. Yes I used a locking tool, and when I turn the nut on the transmission mainshaft, and shaft itself, the primary chain does not move. The trans seems to shift allright, I was able to run through the gears and then find neutral. I consulted with the good people at H-D Buell of Bloomington, the techs were great, after they admonished me for being stupid, and then laughed at my problem, they suggested I may have sheared the splines off of the clutch basket only. They suggested I bring it in for a collective head shaking and tongue wagging session. Which I did, I expect a professional opinion any day now. here is the photo, although I doubt it will help with the understanding. Thank you all for the good advice and brainstorming, it was helpful. Plus I like to provide entertainment whenever I can.  | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Oh the CLUTCH side. good. I thought you meant the engine's shaft. | ||
| Fasted |
saw the disabled beast sitting out in the sun this morning......you are a lucky boy only losing the nut in the whole mess. it will be an expensive lesson to learn, but i guess it'll never happen again. i hope they get it back together for you soon. | ||
| Vecchio_lupo |
Education is Expensive, this is a lesson hard learned. I hope the professionals can make progress, but I won't spend 1000 bucks on a wrecked bike that needs 600 bucks worth of front end and another 600-1000 in paint to be right, not when I could replace it for about 3.5-4k and have a great parts pile to pick off of. | ||
| Harleyelf |
It's nowhere near $1000 to replace the clutch basket. Take the plates out of the basket and grind the nut until you see shadows of the threads but not until you see the threads themselves. Repeat on three alternating sides of the nut. Put your socket back on and use the impact gun (we're replacing the basket so no worry about damaging things glued to it) to spin the nut off. Now inspect the shaft (hard metal) and basket (softer metal) splines. Your next move should become obvious. Don't forget to clean the grinding residue! | ||
| Pash |
Update us Joe! | ||
| Vecchio_lupo |
She is currently the Reigning Garage Queen at Harley-Buell of Bloomington with no progress report yet. I fear I will be spending a weekend preparing for a big part out sale. | ||
| Pash |
Bring it round to mine, I'll fix it... |
