| Author | Message | ||
     Matrim |
I was wondering what type of battery I should get to replace my dead hunk of lead and I thought Lithium would be pretty cool if it could work. I researched it a bit and found that some people are actually using them. Havent found much in the way of people using them on Buells though - go figure... Anyways, I just bought all the parts I need and hope to get them next week. I will post a walk through and results once I finish. I'm building it for my 2000 x1 and my friends 2003 xb9r. (Message edited by matrim on June 10, 2010) | ||
| Hughlysses |
PM Froggy- I think he's running one. | ||
| Matrim |
Thanks Hughlysses, will do. | ||
| Terrycoxusa |
As I understand it, the charging requirements for a lithium battery are different than a lead acid battery. How are you planning on handling this? | ||
| Andymnelson |
http://www.EBRacing.com/shop/product65.html | ||
| Reepicheep |
I keep hearing of people just slapping LiIon cells into the stock charging system... Seems like a great way to ruin expensive cells to me, but maybe it works out by charging the cells innefficiently (and therefore safely enough that they die for some other reason before you bake them). The algorithim for charging LiIon or LiPo is fairly complicated. | ||
| Jayvee |
A $400 battery, boy I need one of those, to go with my $525 oil tank. | ||
| Buellistic |
Thats what "i" call a "GREEN" battery, your "GREEN" out of your pocket into theirs !!! | ||
| Matrim |
wow... that ebracing cell is rediculous - 400 dollars! I bet its good stuff. I bought all the things i need for 80 dollars out the door. I already had solder and extra battery grade wire. Terrycoxusa, Im using LiFePO4 cells which are a bit different than the past li ion cells. They hold up a whole lot better to overcharging and overdischarging. I believe the company a123 systems was commissioned by the military to develop these cells to specifically handle lots of abuse (if i remember correctly, they were used in the mars rover.) Anyways, they dont need balancing (a system to check that they dont get overdischarged) because the main draw is when you start the bike, then the bikes charger kicks in and will sustain them just fine, therefore they theoretically shouldnt ever be overdischarged (granted I dont leave the bike on again.) This is going off of research, rc forums, and a little speculation. Ill let you know how well it actually works when i get it finished. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Out of curiousity - what are the benefits of this? Weight? | ||
| Matrim |
Weight, size, it supposedly lasts around 10x longer than lead acid (id be surprised if it lasted twice as long,) and I thought it would be a fun project. Plus, at 80-90 dollars it costs about the same as a normal battery. all imo Oh yea, I believe these batteries are better for the environment too. (Message edited by matrim on June 11, 2010) | ||
| Reepicheep |
How many amp hours did you get for $80 worth of LiPo? Sounds awfully cheap. I just paid $50 for a 12 amp hour 24 volt lead acid battery set for the kids Razor dirt bike.... that was about as cheap as I could find. LiPo and Lithium Ion were stupid expensive, even before I figured how how to charge them cost effectively. | ||
| Matrim |
I got them for 10 bucks each and they are each rated at 3.3v and 2300 mah. I will find out if they put out what they advertise. | ||
| Scottorious |
COOL...im glad someone is trying this...I have been considering this same thing | ||
| Hootowl |
"Oh yea, I believe these batteries are better for the environment too." Lead is abundant and easily recycled. Not too sure about the rate of recycling for lithium batteries. I'll bet most get pitched in the trash. Lithium is getting hard to come by. That means bigger strip mines to extract an ever diminishing yield per ton of ore. As an aside, apparently the Soviets found huge deposits of minerals in Afghanistan, Lithium being one of them. Was in the papers yesterday. Somehow I doubt that a massive influx of cash will result in peace in that part of the world. They'll likely just buy better weapons, as now there is something there to fight over besides control of the population. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Lithium is pretty common all over in tiny concentrations. Getting it out in elemental form is the trick! | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
Just installed a new battery, old one was eight years old. Replaced with Yuasa drag battery like at American Sport Bike. Nice change. If your still on an old battery that works... get rid of it anyway. | ||
| Matrim |
Hootowl, I'm not exactly sure on the environmental safety of the lifepo4 batteries in comparison to lead acid but I know they are more efficient and are the least toxic battery type around. Lead acid batteries can definitely be recycled but they can leak and not every one can be counted on to dispose of them correctly. I didn't know about the rarity of lithium, that is a good point. Everything still boils down to finding some sort of renewable energy source. | ||
| Matrim |
So, there is okay news and bad news. I first built an 8 cell battery as planned and attached it to my x1. I flipped the switch and everything looked good. However there was only clacking when I tried to start the engine. I then tried the same battery on my friends xb9r and it fired up in a few presses of the ignition. I figured that since the xb didnt start up right away, and mine didnt start at all, another row of 4 batteries could solve the problem by adding a whole lot more amperage. I tried the new battery in mine again and it turned over once and started clicking every time again. In the xb it started instantly. At this point I'm not really sure what went wrong, because 12 batteries should be more than sufficient for our bikes. I've come down to a few possible reasons. 1. The soldering damaged the batteries more than anticipated (fix, hotter bigger soldering iron.) 2. The connections between the batteries are not capable of conducting enough energy. (Too much of the energy is lost by resistance as heat.) 3. Adding the third row of batteries that were at a different charge may have damaged the battery pack as a whole. 4. I all around just screwed up. Anyways, the pack of 12 has been running on the xb for a couple weeks now. Sometimes it takes about 7 presses of the ignition and sometimes 1. I am going to get a "real" charger for these batteries and charge each of them separately and see if that makes a difference. So, as of now, this doesn't seem to be a project worth undertaking, but hopefully I can make something of it. Any suggestions are welcome. | ||
| Rick_a |
I'm now using a YTZ10S in my S1. It's a few pounds lighter than the Buell/H-D replacement battery and a lot smaller with nearly the same output. I made the mistake of getting a Bikemaster first, and that thing was not so good. After a few months it needed constant attention and would putt out if the starter needed to be hit more than once. Thankfully the bike starts the first time (nearly) every time. If'n I had the money that Nano-Tech battery would be mine. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Put a good meter across the terminals and watch it when you hit the starter button and see how the voltage drops. I have a transient voltage monitor on my bike now, and the stock battery in good shape will drop to a minimum of about 9.4 volts when the starter is spinning. You will need a good meter to see it. If your terminals are the problem, you should be able to see the voltage drop with different placements. These cells might not be designed for the massive amperage dumps the starter needs... most applications for them would not need nearly that much current. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Perhaps a large capacitor in parallel would help throw out a short pulse of current to get the momentum spinning? http://www.carsubs.net/boxesdesign/subwooferdesign /the-boss-cap-10-subwoofer-capacitor If you look at it, a car/bike battery is just used a capacitor anyways. Perhaps a big cap alone is in the future? I want to know how many joule*seconds it takes to start a bike  | ||
| Reepicheep |
The big current capacity caps are, well, big... and they generally leak badly... which is why they "self discharge" in about a minute or two rather than 6 months like a lead acid battery. I suppose you could rig up a "press here to charge cap, then press here to spin starter" setup, that could get around the leakage problem. It's awkward though, and still leaves the size problem. Erik Buell Racing solved the problem, but the solution ain't cheap. | ||
| Matrim |
Well. The battery has been in the xb for about 5 weeks now, and the past two weeks it has been starting the first time every time (including early mornings.) Maybe the charging system on the bike works better than the trickle charger for the lithium batteries... who knows. Anyways, I am very happy with how the xb runs (runs a whole lot better than it did on the old lead acid.) Still disappointed it doesn't work in the tuber tho.  | ||
| Fahren |
The tuber is older and wiser.  | ||
| V74 |
will the Erik Buell Racing battery work on my 99 M2 ? | ||
| Reepicheep |
It should. It's a plug and play setup. |
