| Author | Message | ||
     1998s1lightning |
Anyone on here ever put a set of ported/ worked 883 heads on a tuber lower end? | ||
| Buellistic |
IMHO, if "i" had a set of 883 Heads this is what "i" would do with them: Put XB valves and valve seats ... Leave the Port size the basic stock size, "BUT" have them flowed for max. flow with the small ports ... And one of things that there is very little discussions about is getting the engine timing correct no mater whether the engine is bone stock or has as many big dollar go fast parts in it as you can buy ... Why you ask, well because you build an engine for what you want to do with it ... My idea is to have all the fun in the RPM range that "i" ride ... | ||
| Creature_x1 |
a good friend of mine has ported and flowed 883 heads on his XL. He even cc'ed the combustion chamber and worked them to fit his 1200 pistons. The bike makes stump pulling torque, but the valve size limits what it can achieve on the top end. | ||
| Outdoors |
For a pre Thunderstorm motor I would consider it, it I already owned the heads however even then you would have to have the front mount hole drilled. More than likely I would ebay them off and pick up a used set of Thunderstorms. I used to own an 883 Sportster that I converted to 1200 with a set of ported and flowed 883 heads. It did offer real nice torque in the low to mid range which is what I see a Sportster for. I would go for better performance on a Buell. | ||
| Buellistic |
There are a lot of what is called BLUE PRINTING which matches everything up, one of which is CC'ing the heads ... These detail things can cost as much as the BIG DOLLAR go fast parts that just make the engine run a little better by just popping them in the engine ... REMEMBER: The "DEVIL" is in the "DETAILS" !!!" | ||
| 1998s1lightning |
Cool I already realized i would have to address the motor mount issue, I figured that the 883 heads were a good contestant to stick the conversion valves (since the 883 valves are longer than the lightning valves) in and unshroud the area in the combustion chamber (particularly around the valves nice and flush with the surface of the seat). Also relieve the inside of the seats and ports behind the valves. I would keep it 883 bore so I have a flat squish band. The lightning heads seem to have a lot of material shrouding the valves, and it would be a waste of time to take all this extra material out since the 883 head doesnt have much to start with. Im defintitely going to cc the heads ive started my prototype and will cc it in a couple days. I figure i need to go from roughly 49cc to about 57-60cc to get the compression down to 11:1 or less. I really think the 883 head will outflow the lightning head providing that the port size and valve size are equivelent- maybe with a bit more blending on the ports simply by having a very open unshrouded bathtub style combustion chamber with a flat squishband and the same compression. | ||
| Rickie_d |
I am running modified 883 heads with 1.71 intake valves, 1.35 exhausts, raised floor ports and shaved .035 equating to 48 cc chambers. I dished the pistons and relieved the valve pockets for lift to the tune of 10.4 cc’s. Add in the deck height and gasket volume and I ended up with 10.3:1 cr. | ||
| Xl1200r |
I know when I had my Sportster a lot of guys liked the 883 heads because the smaller valves made for really good low-rpm velocity and thus good power. I'm sure they'd run out of breath before a Buell-like redline, though. All depends on what you want the bike to do. The general consensus was that the XB-style heads are the best available for XL-style engines. If you're going to modify a head to fit, that's what I'd use. | ||
| Buellistic |
What gives the LOW-RPM VELOCITY is the PORT SIZE ... Put XB size valves in and the LOW END "TORQUE" will increase ... The BEST breathing heads of MAX. HP would be the XB HEADS ... | ||
| Rickie_d |
Back in the late 90’s, before XB heads went into production and became known as such; they were prototypes built from production head blanks…which ones…yup, they were modified 883 units. By the way, one of the sponsors here submitted a prototype for consideration. | ||
| Buellistic |
"i" am under the impression that XB Heads have he same shape/flow as the THUNDERSTORM Heads which flow a little better with the smaller stem valves ... Will some one that knows their BUELLschitte tell me if that is or is not correct ??? | ||
| Rickie_d |
That is exactly the problem with you Buellschittstick (“i”); you cannot tell the difference from a topic of a basic head configuration and the stem size of your favorite valve.  Thunderstorm heads are nothing like XB heads, regardless of valve stem size!!!!! Fur Yu Dud - Do sum more lurnin, and then get bak to me!!!!!  | ||
| Buellistic |
"i" said "PORTS" !!! | ||
| Rickie_d |
Buellschittstick (“i”); I read what you wrote, since it is right here and above…"XB Heads have he same shape/flow as the THUNDERSTORM Heads which" , However I am not sure is you comprehend what you type!!! This type of inaccuracy distracts the inquirer. (Message edited by Rickie_d on January 27, 2010) | ||
| Creature_x1 |
you two take it outside  | ||
| Rickie_d |
Seriously!!!! address the individual; this is Buellschittstick (“i”)’s problem. I actually responded to and defend the original inquiry of :“Anyone on here ever put a set of ported/ worked 883 heads on a tuber lower end?” Only two individuals other than me actually provided postings that addressed the question, the rest were opinions of no depth! At least I am actually contributing to the originators inquire and utilize 883 heads! | ||
| Aaomy |
here is what a reputable and capable buell performance shop had to say about xb heads.. "The new XB and 2004 XL1200R cylinder heads represent a major step forward in port design from previous OEM cylinder heads. When comparing stock to stock, our testing has shown these heads to be capable of 5-6 more horsepower than typical Thunderstorm heads! Complementing the much improved ports is a set of special lightweight large-diameter valves, single beehive style springs with extra travel, ultra-lightweight retainers & keepers, and an improved valve stem seal design. As a result of these improvements, the new XB/04XL heads are quickly becoming the OEM performance head of choice for XL's and Buells." personally i like the xb heads, they also offer more fin area for better cooling and stronger front engine mounting boss,, always good for buells where the front head carries many varying levels of structural load.. on the area of 883 heads,, when i was younger and before buell gave us better head options the hot setup for sporty power was 1100 heads,,, i think 883 heads would be a great starting point for some one whom has the time and knowledge.. i think properly matched with lower rpm grunt cams and properly sized exhaust you could have a hell of a stump puller.. this all takes into play what you want to do and how much money and time you want to invest... i have xb heads on my s2t and for me they work great. they are not just thunderstorm heads "ports" with smaller valve stems. if they wanted that they could have kept the same old castings. i say if you have the knowledge and capability,,,, go for it +1 on coolness factor. | ||
| Skntpig |
I have a 97 S1. It is a streetbike only so I wanted midrange torque over top end power. I roadrace but not on this bike. The 97 has the lightning heads. I was thinking of going to XB heads so I tried to do the MotoMan shrink ported high velocity heads. On the intake I straightened the ports by filling the port floor and reducing the big turn on the top of the port. I reduced the valve guide on the intake side only. Kept the intake side with a little rough finish, not polished. I had the exhaust welded for a D port exit in an attempt to stop reversion. Smoothed the transitions to each valve seat. Same idea as the hydroformed Micron XB exhaust. The idea is the same as the effect of putting your finger on the hose. Squeezing down on the way in speeds up the charge, squeezing on the way out speeds up the flow on the way out. I have stock cams, KT street torque pipe. Ported and matched stock intake, forcewinder, TwinTec ign, CV40 with Thunderslide. I tuned it for my riding on the street. I wanted to minimize tickets and maximize grins when I pull the throttle. I love it. The bike makes so much power off idle and the throttle response is instant. I'm really a little afraid to let anyone ride it because it is soooo nasty in low end power. Just a small blip in first or second and the front points up. Not for the noobie rider. I'm sure I sacrificed a few HP at 6,500 rpm. Tune for how you want to use it. My method is far from scientific. I haven't dynoed it and could probably tune the heads or jetting or ignition better, and might someday...but she runs like a skint pig as is. Starts easy, warms up quick, runs cool, sounds like a nascar at idle. If I want top end power I get on the Honda or the 1125. I just can't ride them and have fun at sane speeds on the street. I bet those 883 heads with some larger valves could be tuned to pull stumps too. | ||
| Rickie_d |
If this was about reputations and preferences, I might agree with some of your points and expound on them, but it is not, so I will abstain from anecdotes. “i think 883 heads would be a great starting point for some one whom has the time and knowledge..” That is the point of “Anyone on here ever put a set of ported/ worked 883 heads on a tuber lower end?” along with the subsequent outline on modifications. “I bet those 883 heads with some larger valves could be tuned to pull stumps too.” They do… 96ftlbs @ 4200 rpm with no top end limitations and I can put the same gas that I use in my lawn mower in it. | ||
| Buellistic |
Rickie_d: "NOW" that is the kind of answers you should be putting out !!! Anyway it is to cold where you live to take it outside unless it is to go "ICE RACING" !!! Aaomy: "THANK YOU" for the port shape answers !!! (Message edited by buellistic on January 27, 2010) (Message edited by buellistic on January 28, 2010) | ||
| Rickie_d |
Buellschittstick (“i”) - You have to actually ask a question to get an answer! Focus …focus…wait for it…pay attention…what??? Just jazzing you…  You have to know me to appreciate my sense of humor...and I am really bored!!!! | ||
| Rickie_d |
By the way, you can call me "Prickie"!!! | ||
| Sportyeric |
My riding buddy, years ago, got a set of heads from Branch. It required an exchange of core heads and he sent him his 883 heads. Which says, sort of, that Jerry Branch could turn 883 heads into high performance heads by putting in larger valves, welding up and re-shaping the ports and combustion chamber, etc. I used to have a book called "The Sportster Performance Handbook" that said that 883 heads would give better power than stock 1200 heads of the day up to about 5500 rpm becasue of the smaller port size but would then be limited by the valve size. I am enormously pleased with the results I got fitting T-Storms pistons to Lightning heads, as I descrbied way back here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/125502.html My focus there was combustion chamber design rather than port shape, lacking Skntpig's cleverness. I'll concede that I was mistaken as to port size on the Lightning heads. | ||
| Rickie_d |
Eric - Jerry Branch, as many others used 883 heads (back in the day) to modify because they had such small combustion chambers that could be easily carved out or enlarged for a given application and required minimal welding in the ports to create raised floor ports commonly know as D-ports. Now, I have to relay an anecdote…sorry!!! Back in the spring of 1980 I was putting together a customized lowrider that was featured in Choppers magazine (May of 81). I had made many modifications and chose a duel throat Mikuni from branch as the carburetor I wanted. It looked like a Webber but shorter with a stubby manifold that tucked into the engine for a cleaner package. Well, after countless hours trying to get the bucking, farting, and barfing thing to work with my cams and bore, I called Jerry. He said: send it to me COD with my engine specs and he would set it + or – one jet or emulsion tube from his settings and provide all the jetting to get it right! When I got it back (free) it ran perfectly without any jet changes and minor idle mixture adjustments. I think I might still have those emulsion tubes around here! An amazing guy; and intuitive engineer that did things with stuff that conventionally trained individuals said could not be done! | ||
| Buellistic |
conventionally trained individuals who are unable to think out of the box, as in technician !!! | ||
| Rickie_d |
Buellschittstick (“i”), Does this help? con•ven•tion•al Pronunciation: \kən-ˈvench-nəl, -ˈven(t)-shə-nəl\ Function: adjective Date: 15th century 1 : formed by agreement or compact 2 a : according with, sanctioned by, or based on convention b : lacking originality or individuality : TRITE c (1) : ORDINARY, COMMONPLACE (2) : NONNUCLEAR 1 <conventional> My favorite!!!!!!!!!!!! conventional wisdom Function: noun Date: 1850 : the generally accepted belief, opinion, judgment, or prediction about a particular matter Learn more about "conventional" and related topics at Britannica.com |
