| Author | Message | ||
     Blackandchrome |
I put the Force Exhaust that eshardball hooked me up with (thanks again, real life saver!) I already got compliments on the exhaust on a short trip I took! I know it's supposed to be sluggish under 3k, but it was sluggish in the upper RPMs and several other spots. 2002 X1 w/ a forcewinder and race ecm. Do I need to keep the bike at a steady RPM for 5-10 min and let the computer reprogram itself? I only went for a 10 minute ride and didn't really take it too lightly. I stripped some of the coating off the O2 wire trying to put the header on w/o removing the O2 sensor. I wrapped it w/ electrical tape and it was dry out. I'm going to swap the O2 sensor that I originally had on the bike to eliminate any questions. I can't just start the bike and let it sit there. I have to give it some gas and get it going before I can let it idle. The idle is a little boggy at first, but seemed fine when I started riding and when I got back from the ride. Is it finally time to get the ECM spy? | ||
| Limitedx1 |
your start up procedure is just like mine with the force pipe. i ususally have to hold the throttle up a few hundred rpm to keep her goin. but my bike is not sluggish what so ever after 3k rpm! | ||
| 14d |
I was having similar idle problems at start up but a TPS reset and setting it to the proper idle speed took care of it. The ECM spy cable pays for itself very quickly. | ||
| Blackandchrome |
I wasn't able to get the old O2 sensor out. That was where the old header tore apart and it's basically welded in. I took the bike out for 20 miles today keeping the RPMs steady at 4.5 It seems to have reset the computer. It's not searching for fuel at the upper RPMs. It felt pretty good around town. It really doesn't like being in too high of a gear. | ||
| Blackandchrome |
I spoke too soon. I went to take the bike out today. After about 5 minutes it begain to sputter. I'm assuming too much fuel. The kickstand is black, the exhaust reaked of fuel. I got a new 02 sensor. I figured the wire issue make the sensor bad. I figure the bike sends more fuel (vs. leaning out) when theres an issue with the o2 sensor. The sensor was black when I took it out I went to take it out again. It ran good for 5 minutes taking it easy around town. It started bogging down again. I barely got it back. I'm assuming reseting the TPS should address this. I'm ordering the cable from ebay. I remember reading about the kickstand sensor causing issues with this bike. The exhaust is exiting right on the kickstand. Could the heat be causing it to short out? Is there a way to bypass it? | ||
| Limitedx1 |
my kickstand as well as entire sde of the swingarm will turn black after a few rides. i put a small turndown on the end of my pipe to hopefully stop gettin black suit all over everything new i just put back there. my point was my bike runs rich at WOT as well. | ||
| Skntpig |
I don't think the kickstand sensor is your issue because it wouldn't let you ride at all if it wasn't working. You can connect the two kickstand safety switch wires together to bypass it. Keep in mind this of course lets you drive away with your kickstand down. | ||
| Blackandchrome |
Still waiting on the ECM Spy cable... I'm still bothered by this situation. Day 1: Rode well for 2 miles. Went very high in the RPMs passing a car and it started to bog down. It was acting strange, but made it another 4 or 5 miles home on back roads. Day 2: Started and rode fine. I got right onto the highway keeping the RPMs between 2.5 - 4. Once I got on the open road, I kept it in 5th gear @ 4.5k RPM going 80 mph. After about 14 miles I busted a uturn and went home. I was responsive all over and never bogged down. I was being hard on it and got it up to 120mph with no issues. I figured the reset the computer. Day 3: Rode for 3 miles on the highway with no issues. I got pretty high in the RPM's in 3rd or 4th and thats when the issues started again. I turned around and took back roads home. I had to stop 2 times because it was really hurting. I'd give it gas and it would struggle (like your in too high of a gear). I pulled the clutch and revved a little and it would act a little better. It would eventually straighten out and ride somewhat normal. I got home, got a new 02 sensor and replace it. It started right up and sounded fine. I went on some back roads. She acted fine for 3-4 miles and it started to bog down again. I had to limp back home. I didn't even get near the rev limiter. I was reading the ECM Spy manual last night. I guess I went a little high in the Closed Loop run I did on day 2. Step 1: Try and take the bike for a ride and get it above 160 degrees. Step 2: Back up initial settings Step 3: Reset the AFV Step 4: Reset the TPS Step 5: Enjoy Step 6: eventually check the timing when I'm not itching to ride. Step 7: Reset the AFV and TPS monthly | ||
| Eshardball |
Wait until you have the cable so you do not continue to waste your time and frustrate yourself. TDman77 was extremely helpful to me getting my ECM issues worked out on my S3. Sounds like you need to do a complete remap or try the X1 race map. If you don't have it, I will send it to you. | ||
| Eshardball |
Don't forget what I said about adding to the baffle for street use. The Force pipe seems to be more of a track part. Like running a Super Trapp with no disks or end cap | ||
| Blackandchrome |
I finally got the cable in the mail. The TPS is fine (4.6 degrees or 5.1%) The AFV was up to 150%. I reset it to 100% on a cold bike. I drove around for 10 - 15 minutes. I plugged it back in after the ride and the AFV was back to 123%. Is that normal? I didn't really do any closed loop riding. It was riding good. It sounds amazing. | ||
| Preybird1 |
I would get another head temp sensor also. they are inexpensive and can do strange things. Also have you tested your voltage regulator power output. | ||
| Akbuell |
+1 on the head temp sensor. Al at American Sport Bike has some 'rules', one of which is "when having drivability problems and no engine codes, replace the engine temp sensor". Or words to that effect. The voltages will stay in spec, and the computer will not show a CEL, but the temp range/voltage signal will not be right. | ||
| Eshardball |
Glad it worked out for you. | ||
| Andymnelson |
"Is that normal?" Yes and no. Not normal for ow the bike was designed/built. "Normal" for an X1 with ForceWinder and Force pipe. You need to dyno that thing and get good maps made for it... | ||
| Blackandchrome |
I took the bike to work taking it easy - 30 mile round trip. The AFV was at 117% cold leaving work. I thought I was able to log the ride back, but the log I saved is just the header in the text file. I had a sputter 1 time on the way home. I didn't think anything of it. I took the bike out after work. I made it 3 miles on the highway before it was bogging down. I was getting on it. I didnt get anywhere near the red line though. I made a u-turn and made it straight home cruising. kept it steady at 70 with no issues towards the end. The afv was at 117% when I got home. TPS was still fine. Everything looked good. No codes came up. Theres an old air sensor code thrown but not currently showing up. I'll get the code when I get home. Will a harley or buell dealer have the head temp sensor in stock? Harley is much closer/ easy to get to. | ||
| Blackandchrome |
Byte 2:80 Bit 7: Trouble Code 15, intake air sensor shorted to supply voltage or open Only related post is: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/476 23/268345.html I may try to bypass the kickstand sensor. The exhaust is exiting right onto it. The battery is supposed to be 2-3 years old. The black plastic locking clips broke off of the intake sensor going into the intake. It is on snug though. Screen shots below: http://www.visiontron.com/test/ecm/1.overview.jpg http://www.visiontron.com/test/ecm/2.ecmruntime.jp g http://www.visiontron.com/test/ecm/3.diagnostics.j pg http://www.visiontron.com/test/ecm/4.troublecodes. jpg http://www.visiontron.com/test/ecm/5.maps.jpg http://www.visiontron.com/test/ecm/6.othermaps.jpg http://www.visiontron.com/test/ecm/7.ecmconfig.jpg | ||
| Blackandchrome |
ughh... $60 for the head temp sensor and socket. Any way to test it first? The X1 race maps would be good. I'd like to compare them to my race ecm maps - hopefully that's faulty and an easy fix. | ||
| Kalali |
I would first clear the codes to make sure the Intake Temp Sensor is working properly. If is comes back, that could be (and most likely is) your problem. Secondly, I would "disable" the "open loop learn enable" option. My X1 seems to run better that way. Thirdly, I am curious as why your cold start enrichment is at 152% when the temp is 29C. Finally, I would increase the fuel across the entire map by around 15% (front and rear) to get a steady 100% AFV. Looks like the Force likes a lot of fuel (more than what Race ECM provides). Those are what "I" would do. As they say, your mileage may vary.... Good luck. | ||
| Blackandchrome |
I will clear the codes. I'm going to zip tie the sensor (zipties made the backup sensors on my truck magically work again) How do i disable open loop learn enable? I just opened the program (not connected to the bike though) and couldn't find a prompt. Do I just click on that box and it toggles it? I'm not sure about the cold start enrichment. The screen shot was taken How would I fix that? I originally reset the AFV on the bike when it's been sitting for week. I haven't reset it since. I'll backup the eeprom again. I'm thinking I'll clear the code when I get home and reset the AFV. I'll take it around the block, if it feels good, take it cruising on the highway 6 mile round trip. I'll try and datalog it. Once I get back, I'll reset the AFV and add the 15%. Can I select all the cells and add 15% in one shot or do I need to do it individually? I'll repeat that 6 mile round trip taking it easy and datalog it. Theres a nice stretch once I get off the highway that I can really get on it again but still be able to get home easily if it craps out. Milage doesn't matter to me - it's supposed to me my stress relief, though it's been everything but that lately. | ||
| Kalali |
Go online with the ECM using ECMSPY and before you do anything, save the EEPROM and the maps. Then you can just go to the correct page and select the boxes right on the screen. As for the maps, you can select the entire page and then "multiply" by 1.15 to get the 15 percent hike. My suggestion is not to mess with timing maps unless you know what you are going. You can also change the cold start enrichment numbers right on the screen in the appropriate cell. One think I lost in your notes was how did you get the AFV from 150% down to 117%. I have seen it go the other way due to leaks in intake or exhaust but never down on its own. | ||
| Blackandchrome |
What's confusing me is that the problems are coming out when I'm going fast staying in the upper RPMs - which is where this system is supposed to shine. I've been talking to my friend who's a mechanic and he's confused why a free flowing exhaust would be making it bog down and not run right. People can run open headers, it changes the power band, but shouldn't mess with the fuel ratio. in my mind, it would be running rich - the exhaust is exiting quicker/easier and not burning all of the fuel up. The 02 sensor reads this and cuts back fuel. I'm using a narrow band O2 sensor (Bosch 12014 per X1 files), so it takes some time to cut back the fuel. It leans out the mixture and boggs down when I give it gas again. It takes some time for the O2 sensor to adjust again. Am I off in my thinking? Any way to test the head temp sensor? $60 isn't the end of the world if it needs to be done, but these things add up. Waiting for things to ship and them not fixing the problem is even worse. I haven't been able to run any of the diagnostics. I've been trying to select the different functions on the side but "Start diagnostics" isn't becoming active. | ||
| Andymnelson |
It's running lean. More is flowing through your engine...more what? Air. You need to tell it flow more fuel as well. That's why your AFV (average fueling value) is way above 100%- it's TRYING to compensate, but it wont be enough to run well on it's own. | ||
| Blackandchrome |
AFV 150% - 117%: I reset it to 100 when I first got the cable. It's stayed around there. http://www.visiontron.com/test/ecm/before http://www.visiontron.com/test/ecm/after I got home. Reset the code. Took the 6 mile ride. No codes again. I was able to run all of the diagnotics. They just ran to 100% didn't say anything else. I disabled "open loop learn enable" and reset the AFV to 100%. Took the 6 mile ride again. The throttle didn't feel as responsive. Got home and took screen shots (www.visiontron.com/test/ecm/before) The AFV bumped up to 105% during the ride. I backed up the eeprom again as well as the fuel maps. I bumped up all of the values 15%. I reset the AFV to 100% again. I started the 6 mile ride again but extended it to 20 miles. I tried to do the datalog again, but looking at the file it's empty. THe bike felt great throughout. I was getting on it and everything. I'm crossing my fingers. (Message edited by blackandchrome on August 04, 2009) | ||
| Blackandchrome |
Thanks everyone for your input. I really appreciate it. I took it out tonight. It was riding pretty good in the beginning. I had a little issue with bogging on the expressway and possibly on some side roads I brought my laptop and cable and saw that the AFV went up to 117%. No other codes. I cruised the whole way home keeping it steady at 75 mph. I didn't have any issues   I just realized that I only bumped up the front cylinder fuel maps by 15%. I updated the rear maps. I'll see how it turns out. | ||
| Kalali |
Remember that the O2 sensor is in the rear header so you need to make the changes to the rear map. Looks like you are moving in the right direction. Glad it is working out for you. | ||
| Blackandchrome |
I know you're supposed to make the same changes to the front cylinder as the rear cylinder. I just forgot about it.  I took a 20 mile ride to warm it up. http://www.visiontron.com/test/ecm/1.jpg The AFV remained at 111%. I don't get why the Cold Start Enrichment is 109.8% when the temp is at 171 ?? http://www.visiontron.com/test/ecm/2.jpg If anything, shouldn't it be at 99 or 100%? I reset the AFV to 100%. I added 1% to the front and rear fuel maps and did the same 20 mile ride. I was not being light on it. I didn't keep the throttle even at low speeds/rpms. I held it at 80 mph / 4k RPM for a while. http://www.visiontron.com/test/ecm/3.jpg The AFV remaining at 100% is a good sign, right? From what I understand, it means if its running lean,it trys to bump up the maps by x% based on the O2 sensor's reading. Again, the temp is 192, why would there be any cold start enrichment? | ||
| Kalali |
AFV of 100% means your fuel maps are good and if it stays that way, it generally rules out any exhaust or intake leaks. As for the cold start enrichment, mine does the same thing (more or less) except my engine has never gotten up to 191C, even in 90F days. I owe that to Royal Purple (could be wrong). So don't worry too much about it. It is like reading the battery voltage via ECMSPY which is always 1-2 volts less than actual. Just remember whatever change you do with ECMSPY, save your "current" set up and do things in small increments, one variable at a time. One other thing you may want to do is try to keep the values in the fuel map right around idle (say between 950 and 1050 for the given TP)) generally the same. That will smooth out your idle quite a bit. Finally, the front fuel maps are 2-4 points higher than the rear across the range to account for the air flow. The race maps (and the stock map) are set up that way from the factory. Make sure you maintain that differential while playing with the maps. |
