| Author | Message | ||
     Mmmi_grad |
Sounds like the most logical thing to do at this point is to DEMAND that the motor company bring back the OEM spec on the ISO. NOW AT ALL COSTS. | ||
| Ebutch |
2 years ago broke both front engine hanger bolts 16 miles from home.Front of eng dropped to oil filter( front tie bar rub filter) vibes where bad but not so bad at low rpms.Drove S2T to tractor supply to hoist engine with wire rope and wire clips,so it would not rub on filter. Barrowed jack started to hang eng.Then a Harley bro offered to haul in his trailer to my house.Not as bad as you think or dangerous!!!  (Message edited by ebutch on June 08, 2009) | ||
| Ebutch |
Tom:I made two of them.But could not get 2" wide stock or exact width recess.Will try again! | ||
| Guell |
At this point, i dont know what to do with the bike... Im getting tired of it breaking down, eating parts. Bad front iso's, Its character is wearing thin... I think i see a bolt in my future. | ||
| Fullauto |
I'm with ya! I think XB heads and a new NRHS mount are in my future. I'll never sell my X1 and I try to improve things as they become an issue. Replacing crap with crap is no long term solution. | ||
| Preybird1 |
Man if the bike's only had a balanced crank assembly nobody would be breaking these parts. My next build will absolutely have a balanced crank and hopefully a fully blueprinted motor. | ||
| Oldog |
New Bike I fully understand, however, My bike is paid off and 2k for goodies is better than 13k for new scooter. I need to get the repair finished, and put a Buell L050 or what ever it is in the @#$%^@ thing and see if it fails at 6 months again. this can be both miles and time, rubber natural and synthetic change (degrade) over time I believe that Buell may want to talk with us and tell us what they are doing about keeping good parts available for us, My bike is nearly 10 years old (2001) I realize that with some thing less than 13k X1's and less of each sub type built the comercial "motivation" is not there. heres the way I see it, I paid good money for the machine ( nearly 16k$ when it was all said and done ) I have tried to take care of it and I expect Buell to provide parts for it for me to purchase to maintain it, If they choose not to, then I would expect that the needed information would be provided to the aftermarket for proper replacement parts, I have been mildly alarmed to see the PM wheels go dirt cheap as they have, this says to me that they are clearing the store house of the old items. its not fact its my supposition, These kind of things also effect my future purchase decisions. Like many of you I am not wealthy and maintaining the machine in safe and ridable condition requires a great deal of time and money from me, I enjoy it for all of its "quirks" But I hope that Buell is not pushing these fine old bikes aside and "moving on" leaving us to fend for our selves. The bike has not be "trouble free" how ever no motor cycle that I have ever owned was, But it has been more troublesome than most that I have owned. The issue is that motor mounts should not fail like this. For those of you who purchased DS isolators and have had issues my appologies If you were misled into thinking that I had found a solution, I was trying to be the "Guinne pig" not tell every one that I had an answer to this problem. Going Windward has built the strut and indicated that his build didn't meet his expectations. Lets all do this if time, money, and resources permit. Document every thing that you have done to the bike since the isolator failed ie... I changed the front and rear isos, date I checked the tie bars and their bolts, Date I installed the Drag specialties part and had the front motor mount fail by breaking a bolt in the head, Date I have replaced all mounting bolts with new OE items, and replaced the cast part with a billet part. Date I had the heads checked by Cycle Rama, [ BTW I highly recomend them and they are a sponsor and the work is TOP NOTCH! } the heads were penetrant tested then welded up and re machined to repair the threads and clean up and align the mounting pads. I want to stress here to you my "brothers of the storm" lets work this problem and not let it work us, we have the talent and the resources if we use our heads, Threats, and Ill conduct will only hurt us If you have further comments pleas post or PM me directly. I think that Kali has some thing can some one start a list of owners with failed isolators/bolts we need with that owner date and resolution Ie Jim Bryant, X1, left bolt failed April2009, head repaired at Cyclerama, reinstalled with Billet mount, Repair Ongoing. | ||
| Oldog |
Man if the bike's only had a balanced crank assembly nobody would be breaking these parts I'm not so sure about that, the balance is more that static balance of the moving parts} | ||
| Fullauto |
Yeah, Oldog, I hear everything you say. Unfortunately, modern companies have a basic economic need to sell the latest and greatest and keep the turnover going or go under. In the long term it's a recipe for the automotive industries to turn in ever decreasing circles until they disappear up their own orifices. In the end, all of the manufacturers pretty much turn their backs on their old products and sigh wistfully when someone turns up with a 20 year old restored bike. The only possible exception I can think of is BMW, who I believe keep a good supply for much older models. I'm into Norton Commandos as well ( I have two) and, in reality, one of the best things about Norton ownership, from an owners point of view, is that the factory went guts up over 30 years ago ! How so? Because there aren't any vested interests out there looking to provide the latest and greatest at the expense of existing models. The Garner purchase of Kenny Dreer's dream notwithstanding. A different kettle of fish that one. It's a good thing because the aftermarket is the supplier of parts for Nortons. Their weaknesses and shortcomings are well known and documented with upgrades and fixes readily available and, as of about now, every spare part is available to keep them on the road, as I am about to take delivery of my first production Norton Commando cylinder heads, newly manufactured in Australia for world wide distribution. They are gorgeous. This, I believe, is the future for owners of older model Buells, and well, any other bike that's worth saving, and tube frame Buells certainly qualify. You only have to look at the Harley aftermarket where the range of parts and accessories is absolutely huge. You could build 20 Harleys and not use the same part from the same manufacturer twice. I don't think any other make is even in the ball park. Who wants to restore a 10 year old Honda? Any takers? In short, if the Company doesn't come to the party, someone else will, sooner or later. What makes me laugh is the ridiculously low price you pay for low mileage, second hand tube frame Buells in the US. We may all be dead, but one day they will be recognized in the mainstream as a worthy and desirable bike. A true classic. The XBs and 1125s will not even come close. Just stand back, have a good look at an S1 and tell me I'm wrong........ | ||
| Guell |
Problem is, i know some have had success with the bigtwin/ds iso. So its a damn toss up. I honestly think certain bikes kill isos,break bolts, break exhausts. Im still running the original exhaust bracket on my m2, with over 24k miles and nothings broken yet on it. I think im going to slap the ds iso in it for now, i was planning on xb heads and a billet mount anyways later this year. | ||
| Oldog |
Just stand back, have a good look at an S1 and tell me I'm wrong........ No I'll stand there with you and admire it} | ||
| 12mpghwy |
How does the DS ISO compare with the new Harley 16207-79D that can be used on a tuber but has to be drilled out? Are the D's breaking mount brackets and bolts? | ||
| Guell |
I thought the big twin iso was a harder grade of rubber too, i dont have both in hand so im not sure if the ds is any denser. | ||
| Oldog |
the 16207-79d does not fit the buell, Jramsey and others have drilled out the center tube to accept the mounting bolt. and indicate that it seems to work fine I talk to James from time to time so far so good. the mount is made slightly different the D washer is integrated into it IIRC ( DO NOT OMIT THE D WASHER ! ) Several others are trying different variations on the theme I have a DS isolator, ( hard and may have contributed to a front mount failure ) I am considering buying another Buell Iso, and testing it to see if it fails at 6 months or if its ok I may leave the DS iso on the bike as I am breaking it in (soon ) and see if it shakes like hades or if it was coincedence that the bolt failed and it shook in part because of that. | ||
| Guell |
Im tempted to slap my ds iso in there and see how far my bike makes it. | ||
| Preybird1 |
Slap it in there LOL Oldog you are always right, The bike i saw and sat on with the crank balance was a different bike after it was done. The front tire didn't dribble anymore and here is what got me. I could see in the mirrors, no shaking violently. All i can say is less vibration = less wear for me. I hope i don't have this problem later down the road but i am going to go down this road if i do. +5 to oldog I wonder if riding style and average RPM has anything to do with this as well | ||
| Sloppy |
Original front isolator lasted 30,000 miles. Replaced front isolator lasted 5,000 miles. I use the bike for mostly commuting, and I had no conditions of a torn isolator until I went on a spirited ride in the mountains this weekend when I suddenly noted that it seemed like my shock went "soft". When I inspected the cause I found the center metal sleeve of the isolator separated from the rubber and shifted down about an 1/8". Since the shock is pulling down on the front isolator I assume that the "soft" shock I was feeling was actually the isolator flexing up and down. It seems to me that in my case the bond between the rubber and the metal sleeve was too weak and it failed in a shear condition. I'm not sure how they adhere the metal sleeve to the rubber - I don't see any glue or groove on the sleeve to "grab" the rubber. When I replace this isolator I will open it and see how it is designed. I'm going to try the -D Big Twin replacement as its design has a metal plate holding the sleeve in position from the top in tension with the sleeve rather than just relying on a sheer force with the rubber to hold it in position. I'm curious if someone can look closely at the DS isolator and see how the sleeve is bonded to the rubber. | ||
| Preybird1 |
HHhhmmm lots of paint on this part will try to compensate.       I am going to be in big trouble if the GF finds out what i was using to scrape the paint off with  | ||
| Sloppy |
If you've shown both sides of the isolator (I assume it's a DS isolator?) then it looks to be like a shear bonded sleeve like the OEM (-B) part... | ||
| Kalali |
Well, it looks like a front ISO replacement is almost inevitable. So, has anyone documented the R&R procedure? Or, the FSM is the best guide? I know on mine the center sleeve has separated from the rubber but on the bottom. The top looks brand new. How long of a job is it? | ||
| Oldog |
I have written it up Kalali just cant remember where I put it, the job is straight forward Ahhh wait a second here you are Front iso change 1. Place the cycle on jack stands at the rear ( passenger foot rests ) 2. place a bottle jack and a block if desired under the engine sump 3. remove the seat and tank 4. tools for iso removal ¾” end wrench, ¾ socket & ratchet, 9/16” end wrench, u-joint socket, short wobble extension, regular socket, deep socket, longer (8”) wobble extension 5. loctite. From the right side, fit the ¾” end wrench to the top nut of the hanger bolt and d washer assembly reach in front of the weld joint of the 2 tubes. Fit the ¾” socket and ratchet from between the forks. The front wheel can be held to help secure the machine as the force to loosen the bolt is significant. loosen and remove the bolt D-washer etc there are 2 washers one is between the motor mount and the hanger. slip the 9/16 end wrench between the rocker box and the frame on the right side from behind the weld at the two tubes. fit the open end on the nut hold it with the left hand. place the short u-joint socket on a short wobble extension and place those on the head of the right hand mount, remove bolt. move to the left hand side of the machine, move the wires and throttle cables to reveal the left bolt head, if needed you can unhook and remove the electrical connectors / cables and thread them back out of the hole, make note of the ORDER that you do this as it will be critical to re install. fit the end wrench to the bolt head ( top) assemble the deep socket and the long wobble extension turn the nut off of the bolt remove the wrench and then the bolt the D washer and the isolator remove from the right hand side of the machine, Assembly is in the reverse order of removal. Use the jack to hold and position the motor for inserting the hanger bolt. You will probably have to raise the motor slightly to get the bolt in. 3/8” bolt (9/16”) head torques to 35 ft# ¾” hanger bolt torques to 100 # I blue loctited all fasteners. I think that covers it Prey Bird on the balance what was the high rpm range like ? | ||
| Oldog |
Bird, I would think that a more conservative riding style would be easier on the bike. I would love to know who did the balance on the crank shaft assy, AS I understand it some shock issues were caused by alterations to crank balance causing High frequency vibes to weaken the showa shocks, BTW my showa is rebuilt and at least holding oil 80$ total, new seals and bushings get those shock parts from Moto Pro There is a thread in the KV where Ben M2 documents his Repair & upgrade I go through repair & replacement of bushings. The "paint" on the isos, is a protectant to help preserve the rubber, for better shelf life. the isos are either neopreme or natural rubber depending on who makes them & load specs Matt, you may never have a problem with the mount, do yourself a favor, when you do the DS mount change the "sacred" 911 bolts with new ones and check the clamping surfaces before re-assembley to be sure that they are flat and solid If you are going to do that PM me before you start Lets try some thing.... | ||
| Ebutch |
In latter years of BSA twins,1970s They did more balancing .That mad engine more fragile!And only put vibes some place else and blowen engines.  | ||
| Kalali |
Thank you so very much Oldog. Now I just have to hope I can make to the cold season to get it done. Fortunately my riding skills are limited so I hardly ever "push" the bike like most of you "seasoned" riders do. The silver lining of being a newbie  | ||
| Dwardo |
I'm into Nortons too, and if I had to rely on the local H-D dealer for M2 parts it would take me longer to get those than it does to get Norton parts. Knock on wood, my M2 has had none of the problems I so frequently read about here, just an irritating transmission problem that I will eventually fix. | ||
| Riviera |
What do you think would happen if the engine was mounted rigidly at the front, instead of hanging from the isolator? I'm thinking new brackets fabricated (not cast) for the rear shock and exhaust mounting; the ones mounted at the large, lower bosses of the engine case at the lower right and left hand sides by the voltage regulator. The new bracket(s) would still do their shock/exhaust mounting duties, but would also extend up and forward to be rigidly mounted to the frame where the front tie bar is currently located. The front tie bar would be removed completely, maybe the front isolator and stock mount connected to the front head too. | ||
| Oldog |
Rivi, A floating down tube has been discussed rigid mounting = sportster  | ||
| Jramsey |
The 79D iso does transmit more felt vibration when installed upside down, which is how I first I did my S3 when I got it last summer, I flipped it over when I replaced the rear isos this spring and the vibes smoothed out. I replaced all three isos on my X1 about a week later not that they needed it just as preventative maintenance. 2,600 miles an Nick's S3 so far no problems and I like it more and more each time I take it out for a spin. In my opinion if the tubers were set up with the XB swingarm/shock setup where the engine/ front iso isn't stressed by the rear suspension like Joesbuell's custom S3 the front iso failure rate would be almost nill. | ||
| 14d |
I'd recommend removing the muffler and retorqueing the exhaust system after replacing the isolator. I neglected to do so and had the front hanger on my can break (again) 30 miles into my ride. I figure the engine being lowered while replacing the iso, and the front hanger being on the engine and the rear on the swing arm caused it to bind resulting in breakage. | ||
| Buellistic |
BUELLers: ie: FRONT ISOLATOR/MOTOR MOUNT As far as the FSM, it depends on which YEAR FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL you have ... "i" have 3(three) which say: MOTOR MOUNT BOLTS TO HEAD: 100-110 ft. lbs., "THEN" 73-78 ft.lbs., and last 60 ft. lbs. BOLT/NUT THRU MOTOR MOUNT and ISOLATOR: 100-110 ft.lbs. and last 63-78 ft.lbs. ISOLATOR TO FRAME: one nothing and two stating 30-33 ft.lbs If you have a OLDER FSM and the DEALER and/or the FACTORY does not get the "INFO" out the the "SPEC's" have been "UP-DATED" there could be a "PROBLEM" if you can not tell from experience that YOUR "FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL" IS "WRONG" ... Now there are those that say send in the "READER COMMENTS" sheet in front of the FSM and/or FACTORY PARTS BOOK which amounts to "BUELLschitte" as there is no SYSTEM in place to let those that have "ERRORS" in their FACTORY BOOKS to GET CORRECTIONS !!! "NOW" everybody has a different way to assemble this ISOLATOR/MOTOR MOUNT and the FSM leaves a lot of room for "I GUESS I AM DOING IT CORRECTLY AND PROPERLY !!! If you took your BUELL to different Dealers to have one replaced, EACH ONE WOULD ASSEMBLE IT DIFFERENT !!! "SO" it becomes, WELL "i" did it this way and it worked for me "SYNDROME" ... "AND" yes, "i" will be glad to tell you what worked for me !!! All "i" can say for sure is, you'll have fun !!! MAY THE LONG LASTING BUELL BE WITH YOU !!! |
